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[The Elder King]

  

It's hard to say at this point. Considering Cullen calls Oghren and the Qunari 'heathens', will he have an issue with a Dwarven protagonist, or a Vashoth who only shares the same race as the qunari? Will Cullen have an issue with a mage wielding power over an entire army that will expand across two nations, and gaining political authority? Perhaps he changed for the better, and these issues won't even arise because he isn't the same man who served Meredith for almost a decade. Hard to say.

Judging by the info released, his main concern seems to be stopping the Breach and saving people. So i think that even if he won't like much certain types of Inquisitors, he won't have problems as long as you want to stop the Breach/save people.  

Thanks, I needed a good laugh to start the morning.

What Gaider said on tumblr lead me to believe his views of mages (as an example), will be different. I seems he'll recognize he was wrong in supporting/following Meredith.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

i like Cullen. i really do. because he's most normal/human of NPCs so far - they've finally created not overcoloured char but gave him solid past (quite colourful, granted, but so are the stories in DA) and it just kind of went on it's own. he had almost none character developement behind the scenes, only the story he was involved in. and that's pretty damn awesome. that speaks to me more than Fenris background - so you're a slave with amnesia? who cares? go brush your pretty hair and cry in the corner!

besides he reacts like a regular person, not some boring heroic trope - loosing his cool, calling others heathans (after being brainwashed by chantry for, i don't know, 30 years?), stammering and all that

 

but the guy would be terrible leader: since DA:O, tbc he has serious problems with mages. to a point he cannot be impartial in the conflict. his morality is questionable at best - he hasitates when asked to kill the Champion, but leashing/killing any other mage (Alain in Best Served Cold) - sure, np (not sure what to make of it, maybe he's huge fan of Hawke, annoying little thing but oh well). and even worse subordinate - he actually defies Meridith's order, fights her and lets Hawke go if she/he sided with mages (and maybe even is a mage her/himself)! again - i have no idea why.

 

yup, i'm kind of astonished they put him in the role of advisor. he doesn't seem like a person who would give an advice which is not influenced by his personal experience ('kill mages cuz they are bad non-people' instead of a regular tactical one?)

[Xilizhra]

This is not true. Orsino actually worked with the serial killer who killed Hawke's mom. That serial killer was killing people for at least 3 years while Orsino took reports from him and his findings. He was a long time blood Mage before the Annullment.

Not entirely true either; all their correspondence came from before Quentin's descent into madness.

[Mistic]

yup, i'm kind of astonished they put him in the role of advisor. he doesn't seem like a person who would give an advice which is not influenced by his personal experience ('kill mages cuz they are bad non-people' instead of a regular tactical one?)

 

Well, maybe it's because of his personal experiences. After all, the Inquisition will have to deal with the Mage-Templar War in one way or another. Why is it bad to have a person with experience in the Templar camp? I know that a lot of people are going to have preconceptions before beginning the game, but from an in-universe perspective I'd really recommend having advisors and influential people from every side involved. Then you know you will make an informed decision, even if it's not the one the advisor would want.

 

According to his character profile, there is more too. He caught Cassandra's attention in the aftermath of the Kirkwall disaster, when he "rallied what remained of Kirkwall's templars to restore order to the devastated city".

[The Elder King]

i like Cullen. i really do. because he's most normal/human of NPCs so far - they've finally created not overcoloured char but gave him solid past (quite colourful, granted, but so are the stories in DA) and it just kind of went on it's own. he had almost none character developement behind the scenes, only the story he was involved in. and that's pretty damn awesome. that speaks to me more than Fenris background - so you're a slave with amnesia? who cares? go brush your pretty hair and cry in the corner!
besides he reacts like a regular person, not some boring heroic trope - loosing his cool, calling others heathans (after being brainwashed by chantry for, i don't know, 30 years?), stammering and all that
 
but the guy would be terrible leader: since DA:O, tbc he has serious problems with mages. to a point he cannot be impartial in the conflict. his morality is questionable at best - he hasitates when asked to kill the Champion, but leashing/killing any other mage (Alain in Best Served Cold) - sure, np (not sure what to make of it, maybe he's huge fan of Hawke, annoying little thing but oh well). and even worse subordinate - he actually defies Meridith's order, fights her and lets Hawke go if she/he sided with mages (and maybe even is a mage her/himself)! again - i have no idea why.
 
yup, i'm kind of astonished they put him in the role of advisor. he doesn't seem like a person who would give an advice which is not influenced by his personal experience ('kill mages cuz they are bad non-people' instead of a regular tactical one?)

Couldn't Alain survive?
He show a different side in the end of DA2, during a pro-templar walkthrough, and It's possible his views changed. A fan convo defined 'accurate' by Gaider shown him aknowledging he was wrong in following Meredith, and that he's past hating mages.

[Roamingmachine]

Cullen might have grown as a person but there is no way that i am letting him anywhere near a command position. Advisor in some other role, yes, but i question his judgement even more than i do templars in general due to his past as Merediths second.

[thetinyevil]

What were Meredith's attrocities?

 

I remember Ser Alrik comitting attrocities and illegalities but, as Cullen said, where was the evidence to acuse him?

She knew what he was doing. She knew everything that was happening and did nothing to stop it. Not only did she not try to stop it but she approved of it. 

[The Elder King]

Cullen might have grown as a person but there is no way that i am letting him anywhere near a command position. Advisor in some other role, yes, but i question his judgement even more than i do templars in general due to his past as Merediths second.

He'd still command your troops. Possibly you'll be forced to see him doing so in cutscenes.

She knew what he was doing. She knew everything that was happening and did nothing to stop it. Not only did she not try to stop it but she approved of it.

She actually didn't knew of some things. She didn't knew at all what Alrik was doing (there's letter in Anders' recruitment quest confirming this). I don't want to enter the debate on Meredith's crimes, but she didn't knew everything.

[thetinyevil]

It's obvious that ambient dialogue aren't meant to be general knowledge. He wear them because we're the player but nobody else does.

As for the rest, why should we assume that these are "attrocities"? The Circle of Kirkwall was breeding blood mages and Abominations like a broodmother breeds Darkspawn therefore, what makes you think some Tranquilities or beatings weren't justified? Cullen himself admits Meredith wasn't an easy taskmaster, but guarding mages is no easy task.

 

There were, of course, ilegalities ocurring but they were either secret (Alrik's ilegal Rites of Tranquility and Karras's nigthly visits to Alain) or general knowledge (Meredith's takeover). In both of these cases, just what is Cullen supposed to do?

I didn't realize that rape and torture were not atrocities. 

 

So there are two possibliaties for Meredith here,

1) Either she knew about all the horrible things being done to the mages under her care and did nothing about it

2) She was the single most incompetent Knight-Commander in the history of the Circle.

 

You decide which one. So praise her and admit that she knew about everything that was happening or defend her and admit she was an incompetent leader

[thetinyevil]

Orsino was aware of what Quentin was doing in Kirkwall and did nothing to stop it. I'd say that's a pretty big crime, at least morally. 

What else could he have done. If he would have gone to Meredith with the information and told her how he got it, she would have labeled him a bloodmage and annulled the circle. He was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

[thetinyevil]

And in the meantime dozens of women got murdered. 

 

The Templars reaction to Quentin was not in his control. Stopping Quentin was though and he chose not to. 

Orsino's thoughts a dozen lives vs. thousands.

[TK514]

Orsino's thoughts a dozen lives vs. thousands.

 

More like a dozen lives vs. his own.  Orsino only cared about Orsino in that situation.

 

In the time frame he should have been reporting Quentin to the Templars, Chapter 1 or earlier, Meredith was still sane.  She was stern, but no one accused her of being unfair or unreasonable.

[Xilizhra]

More like a dozen lives vs. his own.  Orsino only cared about Orsino in that situation.

 

In the time frame he should have been reporting Quentin to the Templars, Chapter 1 or earlier, Meredith was still sane.  She was stern, but no one accused her of being unfair or unreasonable.

Thrask did, Anders did, Hugh did to some extent (or at least voiced concerns). Actually, virtually everyone with an opinion about Meredith said she was unreasonable and dangerous except for Cullen and Karras.

[Vegeta 77]

Cullen is a good templar he understands not all mages are bad but you have to watch them. I trust him.

[Sir DeLoria]

Orsino and Meredith were both idiots.

Greagoir and Irving were both reasonable, respectable men. Their Circle was only endangered because the templars and high mages were a little too lenient in their control.

Cullen is a good templar, he might be a bit hot headed, but he's reasonable.

[thetinyevil]

Actually no Grand Clerics can order annulments and if the Grand Cleric is not available then the next Revered Mother in line can and if all the Mothers are unavailable then the Knight Commander can. Anders blowing up of the Chantry gave her the power to invoke the rite. 

 

Of course I am sure the Chantry would not have viewed it as the right thing to do and she would have been removed from power if she hadn't gone insane and turned into a statue. 

I highly doubt she would have faced any consequences for what she did, the Chantry isn't real good at punishing templars or seekers. Mages yes, templars no. Well she may have gotten a finger wagging.

[Char]

I find it fascinating that years later people are still arguing about Meredith and Orsino. IMHO they were both pretty rubbish examples of leaders, both very flawed personalities and both completely incapable of reaching a true compromise. Meredith had an excuse to an extent because she was being slowly corrupted by the lyrium idol but by all accounts she was harsh and duty-obsessed beforehand.

 

Cullen on the other hand... he made a lot of decisions that people will either empathise with or completely disagree with, but I don't think that shows a lack of integrity and I think the ending of DA2 showed a more broad-minded man whose devotion to the order had been superseded by a desire to do the right thing. Do I think DA:O or DA2 Cullen would have made a good adviser? Not really. But do I think DAI Cullen with life and leadership experience, and the character growth shown towards the end of DA2 could be a good fit? Yes.

People change, people grow, people can be deserving of a fresh start. Unless everyone goes in metagaming, there is no reason to pre-judge him anyway

[mikeymoonshine]

I highly doubt she would have faced any consequences for what she did, the Chantry isn't real good at punishing templars or seekers. Mages yes, templars no. Well she may have gotten a finger wagging.

 

Well Seekers are actually meant to punish Templars if it's needed but I can imagine they side with the Templars more often. 

 

It's really hard to tell but Cassandra herself actually concludes that the fault lies with Meredith until Varric points out that all kinds of people could be blamed. I guess the whole thing would have been different if she hadn't gone mad with the idol and she probably would not have annulled the circle so it's difficult to speculate.

 

My point is that she did have the legal right to do what she did and many will see that as just because of the state the circle was in. That said, her actions started the war and angered the circles into rebellion so I don't think the Chantry would look to kindly on her actions. 

. 

[TK514]

I highly doubt she would have faced any consequences for what she did, the Chantry isn't real good at punishing templars or seekers. Mages yes, templars no. Well she may have gotten a finger wagging.

 

Someone else with better search-fu can probably find the Developer quote that states she would have faced consequences for the Annulment had she lived.

 

Thrask did, Anders did, Hugh did to some extent (or at least voiced concerns). Actually, virtually everyone with an opinion about Meredith said she was unreasonable and dangerous except for Cullen and Karras.

 

Oh, well, Anders is clearly an unbiased source of information on the Templars.  And I don't recall Thrask saying Meredith was unreasonable.  He said Karras was unreasonable, since that was pretty much the entire point of that quest.  I am, however, happy to be reminded if you can find me the quotes.

[mikeymoonshine]

I find it fascinating that years later people are still arguing about Meredith and Orsino. IMHO they were both pretty rubbish examples of leaders, both very flawed personalities and both completely incapable of reaching a true compromise. Meredith had an excuse to an extent because she was being slowly corrupted by the lyrium idol but by all accounts she was harsh and duty-obsessed beforehand.

 

Well not to defend Orsino but he has the excuse that Meredith and the Templars were completely abusing their power and nobody was doing anything about it. As you said she was harsh before hand and the Idol just made her worse. 

[Xilizhra]

Oh, well, Anders is clearly an unbiased source of information on the Templars.  And I don't recall Thrask saying Meredith was unreasonable.  He said Karras was unreasonable, since that was pretty much the entire point of that quest.  I am, however, happy to be reminded if you can find me the quotes.

He says that's she's changed the rules to ensure that mages are less free than elsewhere, and his comments about Karras basically state him as being an instrument of Meredith's will.

[thetinyevil]

I always took it as the mages were "winning" for all that meant, but that even though they'd slaughtered hundreds of Templars with Hawke's help that really all they were doing was pulling a 300. Ultimately the Mage Ending was Hawke saving maybe a fifty or so mages, but it was always a losing battle.

 

So Orsino losing hope as each mage died ultimately tries to take the Templars out and it backfires and targets everyone even his allies and the other mages like Alain and Hawke.

I think for Orsino it was a "I'm going to die no matter what, so I'm going to take as many of you S.O.B's with me as I can" situation.

[Jakia]

I'm so confused by parts of this thread, because it seems like a lot of ya'lls games ended up differently than mine?

 

In DA2, Cullen has always turned on Meredith and supported Hawke, at least in my game. If you support the mages, Meredith will call for your execution, and Cullen steps up and goes "No, we're not going to do that" and fights with you.

 

And if you side with the Templars, you see him tell Meredith off and defends the mages who turn themselves in, because that's he believes being a Templar is all about. Yeah, Meredith goes crazy in Act 3, and he defends her actions up until the point where she's beyond saving, and then he immediately calls for her to step down. Go replay the Templar ending of DA2--he struggles against Meredith the entire time, until he finally turns against her (the end fight).

 

But no, you're right, he's just an over-zealous mage-hating templar. He'll be a terrible military leader, I'm sure. /sarcasm.

[mikeymoonshine]

He'd still command your troops. Possibly you'll be forced to see him doing so in cutscenes.

 

He probably will yes but the inquisitor seems to command the troops personally in the Pax demo so it's not like all your command decisions go through him. 

[thetinyevil]

More like a dozen lives vs. his own.  Orsino only cared about Orsino in that situation.

 

In the time frame he should have been reporting Quentin to the Templars, Chapter 1 or earlier, Meredith was still sane.  She was stern, but no one accused her of being unfair or unreasonable.

She would have said he fell to Blood Magic and if the First Enchanter fell to blood magic then the whole circle must corrupt. And she would have called for the ROA and would have gotten it.