490 réponses à ce sujet

[duckley]

She knew what he was doing. She knew everything that was happening and did nothing to stop it. Not only did she not try to stop it but she approved of it. 

I am no Meredith fan, but where is the evidence that she knew everything and did nothing? You may well be right, but I cant recall the evidence.

 

No commander - no matter how competent -  can possibly know everything every member of their troops are doing. Attrocities  and abuse by soldiers In the real world do happen and the commanders often know nothing of it. Its a secret until someone tells. Knowing about it or not, she needs to take some responsibility if it happened on her watch, but you cant deal with what you dont know.

[mikeymoonshine]

I'm so confused by parts of this thread, because it seems like a lot of ya'lls games ended up differently than mine?

 

In DA2, Cullen has always turned on Meredith and supported Hawke, at least in my game. If you support the mages, Meredith will call for your execution, and Cullen steps up and goes "No, we're not going to do that" and fights with you.

 

And if you side with the Templars, you see him tell Meredith off and defends the mages who turn themselves in, because that's he believes being a Templar is all about. Yeah, Meredith goes crazy in Act 3, and he defends her actions up until the point where she's beyond saving, and then he immediately calls for her to step down. Go replay the Templar ending of DA2--he struggles against Meredith the entire time, until he finally turns against her (the end fight).

 

But no, you're right, he's just an over-zealous mage-hating templar. He'll be a terrible military leader, I'm sure. /sarcasm.

 

Yes I do think people ignore the fact that he can stand up to Meredith in that particular situation but most people's problem with him is that he let it get too far and supported her almost until the end. Nobody is denying the fact that he eventually turned on her. 

[thetinyevil]

Well Seekers are actually meant to punish Templars if it's needed but I can imagine they side with the Templars more often. 

 

It's really hard to tell but Cassandra herself actually concludes that the fault lies with Meredith until Varric points out that all kinds of people could be blamed. I guess the whole thing would have been different if she hadn't gone mad with the idol and she probably would not have annulled the circle so it's difficult to speculate.

 

My point is that she did have the legal right to do what she did and many will see that as just because of the state the circle was in. That said, her actions started the war and angered the circles into rebellion so I don't think the Chantry would look to kindly on her actions. 

. 

They did a bang up job with Kirkwall, since the Kirkwall templars are probably most corrupt templars in Thedas.

[thetinyevil]

I don't think I will be able to trust Cullen's Moral Compass, if he has one. He already stated that mage aren't people and that he hates them. As someone already pointed out he also calls Dwarves and Qunari heathens. I have  a feeling he is not going to give real sound advice if it is dealing with mages, dwarves or Qunari. Probably along the lines of "There Mage/Dwarves/Qunari, kill everyone down to the last man, woman and child than salt the earth,"

[TK514]

Yes I do think people ignore the fact that he can stand up to Meredith in that particular situation but most people's problem with him is that he let it get too far and supported her almost until the end. Nobody is denying the fact that he eventually turned on her. 

 

Then the question I have is this:  If we all agree he turned on her, and the recent interview says that change of perspective was lasting, why are people doubting his priorities in Inquisition?

 

They even specifically state he left the Templar Order.

[duckley]

As an aside, there is a lot of gossip, rumour and innuendo by mages and Templars in the game, if I recall correctly. Even the stories about Meredith's so called  induction into the Order  rituals.... so while clearly there was harsh treatment and some cases of abuse, I am not sure how over-the-top the treatment of Mages in  Gallows was in actuality. What was true and what was rumour?

 

Furthermore, lets face it - Kirkwall was a haven for Abominations - I swear there were more abominations in Kirkwall than Mages .....LOL. Talk about the veil being thin! Building a tower in that former death hole  where blood ran freely and the veil was thin anyway was a very bad idea. Dpesnt that make it harders for Mages to resist being taken over by demons? Certainly puts some of the Templar  zeal into perspective. Gives context - not meaning the harsh treatment was deserved but some extra vi8gilence was perhaps needed.

[The Elder King]

I don't think I will be able to trust Cullen's Moral Compass, if he has one. He already stated that mage aren't people and that he hates them. As someone already pointed out he also calls Dwarves and Qunari heathens. I have  a feeling he is not going to give real sound advice if it is dealing with mages, dwarves or Qunari. Probably along the lines of "There Mage/Dwarves/Qunari, kill everyone down to the last man, woman and child than salt the earth,"

http://dgaider.tumbl...evil-come#notes
Gaider's response to the fan convo as 'accurate', as well as hints in the blurb and interview lead me to believe his views of mages changed.

[mikeymoonshine]

Then the question I have is this:  If we all agree he turned on her, and the recent interview says that change of perspective was lasting, why are people doubting his priorities in Inquisition?

 

They even specifically state he left the Templar Order.

 

Him turning on Meredith for being completely insane doesn't really tell us much about his opinions because anyone with any sense (and backbone) would have done that. Also him leaving the templars could just be because he does not support separation from the chantry. 

 

He could have the same views as he did in DA2 or worse for all we know, I am not saying he does but I don't think it's entirely unjustified for people to be wary of him. 

He's a grey character and I don't think either side is wrong in trusting or not trusting him. 

[thetinyevil]

I am no Meredith fan, but where is the evidence that she knew everything and did nothing? You may well be right, but I cant recall the evidence.

 

No commander - no matter how competent -  can possibly know everything every member of their troops are doing. Attrocities  and abuse by soldiers In the real world do happen and the commanders often know nothing of it. Its a secret until someone tells. Knowing about it or not, she needs to take some responsibility if it happened on her watch, but you cant deal with what you dont know.

Well she sure knew when a templar helped a mage didn't she. Samson delivered a note from a mage to his sweetheart and got canned. So she must have had a least an idea of what is going one.

 

So like I said before she was either completely incompetent or she just let her templars do whatever they wanted.

[thetinyevil]

http://dgaider.tumbl...evil-come#notes
Gaider's response to the fan convo as 'accurate', as well as hints in the blurb and interview lead me to believe his views of mages changed.

With Cullen I'll believe it when I see it. I don't like him.

[The Elder King]

With Cullen I'll believe it when I see it. I don't like him.

That's fair. You don't have to like him.

[TK514]

Him turning on Meredith for being completely insane doesn't really tell us much about his opinions because anyone with any sense (and backbone) would have done that. Also him leaving the templars could just be because he does not support separation from the chantry. 

 

He could have the same views as he did in DA2 or worse for all we know, I am not saying he does but I don't think it's entirely unjustified for people to be wary of him. 

He's a grey character and I don't think either side is wrong in trusting or not trusting him. 

 

[DA]: Cullen made a pretty big decision at the end of Dragon Age II. How has his life changed since he sided against Knight-Commander Meredith?

 

[BB]: Meredith was Cullen's commanding officer; he wanted to trust her. But standing against her paved the way for him to help form what would become the Inquisition. The templars failed to protect their charges and the people of Kirkwall. The Order has not lived up to its ideal, and though it wasn't easy for him, Cullen now recognizes that. It's something he's still processing, but he's looking to move forward and fight for something he can believe in. The whole world's falling apart, and Cullen won't sit by and watch that happen. He wants to be part of a solution. If that means serving the Inquisition instead of the Order, then that's what he's going to do.

 

That doesn't read like he left just because the Templars had a falling out with the Chantry.

[mikeymoonshine]

[DA]: Cullen made a pretty big decision at the end of Dragon Age II. How has his life changed since he sided against Knight-Commander Meredith?

 

[BB]: Meredith was Cullen's commanding officer; he wanted to trust her. But standing against her paved the way for him to help form what would become the Inquisition. The templars failed to protect their charges and the people of Kirkwall. The Order has not lived up to its ideal, and though it wasn't easy for him, Cullen now recognizes that. It's something he's still processing, but he's looking to move forward and fight for something he can believe in. The whole world's falling apart, and Cullen won't sit by and watch that happen. He wants to be part of a solution. If that means serving the Inquisition instead of the Order, then that's what he's going to do.

 

That doesn't read like he left just because the Templars had a falling out with the Chantry.

 

True but again it doesn't say much about his views other than that he feels the Templars failed to protect the mages so he probably doesn't want them all killed. 

 

I'm not anti Cullen but I really don't think we can just assume that he is all fine with mages now. Some people do not support the idea of Templars at all so not everyone is gonna like or agree with him even if he has changed. 

[TK514]

True but again it doesn't say much about his views other than that he feels the Templars failed to protect the mages so he probably doesn't want them all killed. 

 

I'm not anti Cullen but I really don't think we can just assume that he is all fine with mages now. Some people do not support the idea of Templars at all so not everyone is gonna like or agree with him even if he has changed. 

 

Not saying people have to like him or agree with him.  It simply seems odd to assume that he's the same guy from Act 2 of DA2. or worse from DA:O, when his writer is telling us he isn't.

[mikeymoonshine]

Not saying people have to like him or agree with him.  It simply seems odd to assume that he's the same guy from Act 2 of DA2. or worse from DA:O, when his writer is telling us he isn't.

 

Then I agree. Remember that you asked me to explain why people doubted him, not to argue that he was worse or as bad as in previous games. 

[TK514]

Then I agree. Remember that you asked me to explain why people doubted him, not to argue that he was worse or as bad as in previous games. 

 

Huh.  So I did.  Going to be one of those weeks.

[Han Shot First]

Then you don't have to agree with him. He's not the only adviser who's going to be masking suggestions to you. You could side with Leliana's approach to a problem instead for example. 

 

It also doesn't necessarily diminish his abilities as a military advisor. In that role, Cullen just has to be adept with the strategy, tactics, and logistics involved in military operations.  Political acumen is not required. That's what we have Scribbles for. 

[x Raizer x]

Can anyone actually confirm if Cullen is still a Templar in Inquisition or not?  I would assume no, but I find an odd lack of evidence supporting this.

If he still is part of the Templars, I'd rather him not be.  If he is going to be leading the military arm of my Inquisition, I want him fully committed.

I don't want anything to do with mage-based responsibility lingering in his mind anymore since that seems a shaky subject for him.

[The Elder King]

Can anyone actually confirm if Cullen is still a Templar in Inquisition or not?  I would assume no, but I find an odd lack of evidence supporting this.
If he still is part of the Templars, I'd rather him not be.  If he is going to be leading the military arm of my Inquisition, I want him fully committed.
I don't want anything to do with mage-based responsibility lingering in his mind anymore since that seems a shaky subject for him.

He joined the Inquisition, and the interview implies he left the templars.

[thetinyevil]

Can anyone actually confirm if Cullen is still a Templar in Inquisition or not?  I would assume no, but I find an odd lack of evidence supporting this.

If he still is part of the Templars, I'd rather him not be.  If he is going to be leading the military arm of my Inquisition, I want him fully committed.

I don't want anything to do with mage-based responsibility lingering in his mind anymore since that seems a shaky subject for him.

I don't know he might be. Well Leliana is still part of the Chantry, what's left of it anyway.

[TK514]

Can anyone actually confirm if Cullen is still a Templar in Inquisition or not?  I would assume no, but I find an odd lack of evidence supporting this.

If he still is part of the Templars, I'd rather him not be.  If he is going to be leading the military arm of my Inquisition, I want him fully committed.

I don't want anything to do with mage-based responsibility lingering in his mind anymore since that seems a shaky subject for him.

 

http://www.dragonage...-profile-cullen

 

That should help.

[Han Shot First]

Here is a link to an interview with his writer, discussing some of the details of what he is up to in DA:I. As The Elder King said, it seems he has left the Templars.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Potato Cat]

He joined the Inquisition, and the interview implies he left the templars.

Then again, his bracers still have the sword of mercy on them. I'd say while he's left the Templars and owes them no allegiance now as part of the Inquisition, he still holds the ideal of the Templar Order.

[mikeymoonshine]

Can anyone actually confirm if Cullen is still a Templar in Inquisition or not?  I would assume no, but I find an odd lack of evidence supporting this.

If he still is part of the Templars, I'd rather him not be.  If he is going to be leading the military arm of my Inquisition, I want him fully committed.

I don't want anything to do with mage-based responsibility lingering in his mind anymore since that seems a shaky subject for him.

 

BB]: Meredith was Cullen's commanding officer; he wanted to trust her. But standing against her paved the way for him to help form what would become the Inquisition. The templars failed to protect their charges and the people of Kirkwall. The Order has not lived up to its ideal, and though it wasn't easy for him, Cullen now recognizes that. It's something he's still processing, but he's looking to move forward and fight for something he can believe in. The whole world's falling apart, and Cullen won't sit by and watch that happen. He wants to be part of a solution. If that means serving the Inquisition instead of the Order, then that's what he's going to do.

 

 

 

I think it's pretty clear that he isn't, at least not officially.

[The Elder King]

Then again, his bracers still have the sword of mercy on them. I'd say while he's left the Templars and owes them no allegiance now as part of the Inquisition, he still holds the ideal of the Templar Order.

I agree on this.

I don't know he might be. Well Leliana is still part of the Chantry, what's left of it anyway.

Leliana is part of the Chantry before the Breach event, as Cassandra. We don't know if she'll still be part of the Chantry.