121 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Well, the best solution is not to track wealth at all. Or, in the case of Inquisition, to track it at an organisational level where the scraps you find on a bunch of bandits are just a rounding error.

But failing that, do it in the way that doesn't create a drag on the game. By simply treating trade goods as equivalent to money - if you want to keep a sense of authenticity, you can drop them as items and simply allow their conversion into money when they're picked up.

I mean, it might be different if we were supposed to be in a real survival situation, where every scrap might be valuable and traders are rare. But we're not. We're the boss of an organisation with it's own keeps and army and whatnot. Scribbles can take care of selling our crap, or rather one of her junior assistants can.

Then what's the point in having better equipment? I should just have my minions out shopping for me across the globe. In fact, why should I be fighting at all? Send the peons to do the questing.

I use a bit of hyperbole here to poke at the fact that I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Inquisitor will A) be in charge of the Inquisition for much (let alone the majority) of the game and that the Inquisition is not a kingdom, bankrolled by a country's treasury. It is a ragtag "Hail Mary" attempt at keeping the world from falling apart that can only gain allies by first convincing other factions to stop trying to kill each other, even for a minute.

We aren't going to be filthy rich barons and dukes overseeing the common rabble and questing just for the LOLz. So gathering resources and money is going to be just as relevant in the early-to-mid game (and just as irrelevant in the late-game) as any other RPG out there.

[Bob from Accounting]

No, you don't get a free house. 

 

And no it isn't. It's a reflection of their understanding that not everyone likes to methodically - even compulsively - loot and sell like I do.

 

And houses never serving purposes has never particularly bothered me. I still buy them all, decorate them all. In fact, that was somewhat of a minor dissapointment for Fallout 3, that only one house was available. I still like them and want them, 'purpose' or no.

[Fast Jimmy]

No, you don't get a free house. 
 
And no it isn't. It's a reflection of their understanding that not everyone likes to methodically - even compulsively - loot and sell like I do.
 
And houses never serving purposes has never particularly bothered me. I still buy them all, decorate them all. In fact, that was somewhat of a minor dissapointment for Fallout 3, that only one house was available. I still like them and want them, 'purpose' or no.

That's fair, but if your complaint is "a hero can afford a house, which 99% of the commoners can afford in some way, shape or form, through the course of the game - that's unrealistic" then I say "why?" What is it about a house that is so outlandish?

[Bob from Accounting]

Err, no, that's not my complaint at all. I don't really have a complaint in the first place. I'm here to defend 'unrealistic' prices and to say wanting 'realistic' prices is silly.

[Schreckstoff]

No, you don't get a free house. 

 

And no it isn't. It's a reflection of their understanding that not everyone likes to methodically - even compulsively - loot and sell like I do.

 

And houses never serving purposes has never particularly bothered me. I still buy them all, decorate them all. In fact, that was somewhat of a minor dissapointment for Fallout 3, that only one house was available. I still like them and want them, 'purpose' or no.

Actually you do get a house for free after killing your first dragon and with it your first follower Lydia. 

 

The economy is hilarious in Skyrim lvl smithing and enchanting to 100 while gaining insane amounts of money by forging iron daggers and enchaning them...

 

Edit: the house isn't free after all. you just get the option to buy it after the dragon.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Actually you do get a house for free after killing your first dragon and with it your first follower Lydia.

The economy is hilarious in Skyrim lvl smithing and enchanting to 100 while gaining insane amounts of money...

I'm pretty sure that killing the dragon just gets you permission to buy the house, but the price is laughably low.

[Fast Jimmy]

Err, no, that's not my complaint at all. I don't really have a complaint in the first place. I'm here to defend 'unrealistic' prices and to say wanting 'realistic' prices is silly.

A game with a truly fleshed out economy - including construction and real estate mechanics, would resolve this. That is more of a sandbox endeavor, of course.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Err, no, that's not my complaint at all. I don't really have a complaint in the first place. I'm here to defend 'unrealistic' prices and to say wanting 'realistic' prices is silly.

How about credible prices?

[Bob from Accounting]

No you don't. After you kill the Dragon they allow you to buy it. But it's still 5000 coins.

[Bob from Accounting]

A game with a truly fleshed out economy - including construction and real estate mechanics, would resolve this. That is more of a sandbox endeavor, of course.

 

No. It wouldn't. Because the player still needs to be able to buy the most expensive items in the game in a reasonable amount of time. Which means if prices are 'realistic,' petty purchases would essentially be free.
 

[Bob from Accounting]

How about credible prices?

 

And what are credible prices?
 

[The Hierophant]

A game with a truly fleshed out economy - including construction and real estate mechanics, would resolve this. That is more of a sandbox endeavor, of course.

Deliberately causing an economic crash to cripple an empire would be a nice feature.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm pretty sure that killing the dragon just gets you permission to buy the house, but the price is laughably low.

Ah, that's what I was thinking of.

Although... is it laughably low, really? How much are we assuming the average farmer, guard, merchant makes, really?

Let's not forget... private mercenaries today can be paid exceptionally well still. If you have the expertise and results to go into a war zone and provide security, you can make enough money in six months to buy a house. More with specific skill sets and leadership abilities. And that is in real life - NOT a world where you could be fighting your way through a cave full of blood Mages who might have enough lyrium or magical equipment that could set up a black market trader for life.

I just don't see how prices are unrealistic. It is the actions the hero does that are unrealistic. That they would obtain more money than the average person sees in a lifetime is not surprising in the least. It is only if you suppose everyone could do this work that you run into problems.

[Fast Jimmy]

No. It wouldn't. Because the player still needs to be able to buy the most expensive items in the game in a reasonable amount of time. Which means if prices are 'realistic,' petty purchases would essentially be free.

Aren't they? Bread and ale in RPGs are usually dirt cheap. For a hero's wage, that is. Not for a peasant's.

[Fast Jimmy]

Deliberately causing an economic crash to cripple an empire would be a nice feature.

About a year ago, I discussed the concept of using such an economic system to drive the equipment of various factions, where you could create economic ruin for your enemies, causing them to have all units spawn with moldy leather armor and rusty swords.

[In Exile]

Ah, that's what I was thinking of.

Although... is it laughably low, really? How much are we assuming the average farmer, guard, merchant makes, really?

Let's not forget... private mercenaries today can be paid exceptionally well still. If you have the expertise and results to go into a war zone and provide security, you can make enough money in six months to buy a house. More with specific skill sets and leadership abilities. And that is in real life - NOT a world where you could be fighting your way through a cave full of blood Mages who might have enough lyrium or magical equipment that could set up a black market trader for life.

I just don't see how prices are unrealistic. It is the actions the hero does that are unrealistic. That they would obtain more money than the average person sees in a lifetime is not surprising in the least. It is only if you suppose everyone could do this work that you run into problems.

 

Well, we know how much food costs in Skyrim because it is sold. So we could actually infer wages from that. A single red apple in Skyrim costs 3 gold. That would mean that for the sum of one house, you could buy 1667 apples (give or take). 

[Wulfram]

Then what's the point in having better equipment? I should just have my minions out shopping for me across the globe. In fact, why should I be fighting at all? Send the peons to do the questing.

I use a bit of hyperbole here to poke at the fact that I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Inquisitor will A) be in charge of the Inquisition for much (let alone the majority) of the game and that the Inquisition is not a kingdom, bankrolled by a country's treasury. It is a ragtag "Hail Mary" attempt at keeping the world from falling apart that can only gain allies by first convincing other factions to stop trying to kill each other, even for a minute.

We aren't going to be filthy rich barons and dukes overseeing the common rabble and questing just for the LOLz. So gathering resources and money is going to be just as relevant in the early-to-mid game (and just as irrelevant in the late-game) as any other RPG out there.

 

I'm pretty sure we'll be running the Inquisition from pretty early on.  And though the Inquisition won't be huge, it'll still be a real organisation with a soldiers and a keep pretty early on

 

Of course you're not just questing for fun.  A Dragon's horde, the financial backing of a noble, the tolls you might extract at a taken fortress, they all matter.  As do the political consequences of your actions, and the knowledge you gain and the lives you save.  The proceeds of a few ragged suits of armour and bunch of swords are maybe not so small that you'd leave them lying on the floor if you're not in a hurry, but it's not large enough to be personally chasing down the details of their sale unless you have really bad time management skills.

 

This logic would pretty much also apply to DA:O, after you complete your first treaty quest.  And of course Mass Effect's looting really makes no sense at all.  Basically, the whole focus on loot strikes me as an unfortunate artifact in the stories Bioware tells nowadays.

[Fast Jimmy]

Well, we know how much food costs in Skyrim because it is sold. So we could actually infer wages from that. A single red apple in Skyrim costs 3 gold. That would mean that for the sum of one house, you could buy 1667 apples (give or take).

So... enough food for a year? That sounds somewhat equitable to a house.

[Sylvius the Mad]

And what are credible prices?
 

Prices that aren't obviously absurd.  Recall Jimmy's example of a Gold Bar that sells for 3 silver pieces.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ah, that's what I was thinking of.

Although... is it laughably low, really? How much are we assuming the average farmer, guard, merchant makes, really?

Let's not forget... private mercenaries today can be paid exceptionally well still. If you have the expertise and results to go into a war zone and provide security, you can make enough money in six months to buy a house. More with specific skill sets and leadership abilities. And that is in real life - NOT a world where you could be fighting your way through a cave full of blood Mages who might have enough lyrium or magical equipment that could set up a black market trader for life.

That's a good point, actually.  I just moved to a place where it's common for someone to go work for two years in an oil mine and earn enough doing it to come back and buy a house.

[Schreckstoff]

Wait shouldn't it say "realistic loot"?

[Bob from Accounting]

Prices that aren't obviously absurd.  Recall Jimmy's example of a Gold Bar that sells for 3 silver pieces.

 

Sometimes absurd prices fit gameplay. If a bowl of soup has very potent healing affects, it would break the game to be priced for a few coins. The player could load up and spam them. Or a healing potion, if they can made from simple and abundent ingrediants, as they often can be. If they're 'realistically' cheap healing effectively becomes free and unlimited.

 

Or ammunition. One .308 in New Vegas costs 4 caps a pop, and there doesn't seem to be any issue with supply. When the player can aquire hundreds of 'dollars' in the span of minutes, and 50 rounds lasts a long time, pricing them realistically would render ammo effectively free.

[Allan Schumacher]

Prices that aren't obviously absurd.  Recall Jimmy's example of a Gold Bar that sells for 3 silver pieces.

The smelting process of turning it into currency is ridiculously expensive!

[AresKeith]

The smelting process of turning it into currency is ridiculously expensive!

 

Thedas' Cash 4 Gold