315 réponses à ce sujet

[Black Jimmy]

I like Anders. I just don't like what the merge with Justice and multiple things corrupting Kirkwall did to him.

 

He's not some immoral monster, so if he's putting effort to make up for what he's done, then I look forward to seeing him again.

[Han Shot First]

The Chantry was the cause of the mind set in the first place. Even Lambert said it. 

 

The Chantry isn't the cause of people's distrust of mages. The Tevinter Empire is.

 

The Alamarri, of whom Andraste was a part, were warring against a tyrannical Empire where only mages ruled and which enslaved their people. The Andrastean commandment that "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him" has its origins in that history. Anyone who wants to argue that mages are dangerous people who need to be controlled, only needs point to Tevinter.

 

The dilemma is that the Mage problem seems to have no easy solution. If given complete freedom you eventually end up with something like Tevinter, where the mages rule like Sith Lords over their non-mage subjects. The alternative isn't pretty either. People are torn from their families and imprisoned (even if its a gilded cage) for no other crime except being cursed with magical ability. And the Templars, as we saw with Meredith and Kirkwall, sometimes forget that they also have a duty to protect mages.

[Lucidae]

For the love of everything holy, he didn't change! He was the same as he was in DA:A. He was just as bitter and angry than as he was in DA2, the only difference is he stopped hiding it behind snark. And truthfully I preferred him in DA2. He was just so fake in Awakening, just go back and play and you will see DA2 Anders there.
 
For the thread, I love Anders. I was at first really angry with him and killed him in several playthroughs but then I started paying attention to things in the game, like the sound of mages being tortured, talked to Alain and Elthina's apathy to the mage's suffering. By my third playthrough I was more than happy to help him and always kept him alive and with me. I hope he is in DA:I he and my Inquisitor are going to be good friends.

I agree with you on this, and I'm going to be doing another DA2 play through soon so I'm going to watch for the things you just stated more carefully, they seem easy to miss.

[Lucidae]

You fracture his physic. If you rivalmance him you make him hate himself. Not only that it is horribly abusive. You are telling him he is evil and worthless.

Idt you realize but people LOVE crazy screwed up relationships in this game. Why else would I rivalmance Fenris as a Mage muwahaha.

[Lucidae]

Again, deeply and unnecessarily unfair to anyone who liked or romanced Anders.

Anders was my first romance choice on my first play through and I wouldn't mind something like this happening, it feels like a really interesting story arc to me. It also makes him more tragic and I think serve as better evidence that Anders wasn't the true mastermind behind blowing up the chantry. It was Vengeance. It would hopefully open up a possibility to try and do a quest line to save him and separate them, or to give Anders body a chance to rest. Y expelling the spirit out if him once and for all.

[N7 Shadow 90]

I would absolutely love to see Anders in DAI, personally. I am fascinated with his DAII storyline and his evolution from Awakening through to the end of DAII. I decided to kill him for what he did, even as I was in a romance with him. I supported him all the way through with his views against mage oppression, yet he felt so oppressed that he decided to go behind even his lover's back. And then there's the question of how much we can blame him for killing those people and how much we can blame Justice/Vengeance, or even if they can be referred to as different entities. I'm gonna be going with my first-playthrough decisions from previous games for DAI, but I'd love to see him in a game I set up where Hawke spared him.

[Lucidae]

He started no war, Justina, Adrian, Fiona, Rys and Lambert did.

  

While he started tensions, I think it's a stretch to say that he started the war.  In fact, they don't even mention him much at all in Asunder or in TME......

According to the timeline in the DAI website Anders started the war in 9:37, the events in Asunder in 9:40 is when the circle disbanded and every Mage decided to fight as well. There was already fighting going on before asunder.

He was also mentioned in Asunder at least twice. I just finished reading the book last night.

[Han Shot First]

I don't hate Anders. My Hawke had him fairly high up on the friendship meter (perhaps not maxed out due to the occasional disagreement), and I generally like him as a character. I see him as a tragic figure rather than a villain. The seeds for his downfall were sown when he allowed Justice to merge with him, and that was done only to help an entity he had come to view as a friend escape 'death.' He underestimated both the effect his personality would have on Justice and Justice's influence on himself.

 

Hawke killing him was as much an act of mercy for Anders as it was punishment for his crime.

[Reaverwind]

I hate DA2 Anders....  I love Awakening Anders....

 

I didn't like either of them. Anders better stay dead this time.

[Lucidae]

Phew, just finished catching up on the thread. It kinda exploded while I slept.

I've really enjoyed hearing other peoples views on him.

However, people keep talking about how they hated his change between games.... But really the only change was the different voice actor and that he stopped being such a snarky sarcastic guy. Well... He was actually still sarcastic, but not as much as or in the way people liked in Awakening.

I'm currently in the middle of Awakening and have noticed him talk about the plight of the mages A LOT. He also clearly shows his hatred towards the Templar order and the chantry. However, at that point in the game he has no desire to try to "help" anyone else from being free of the circle's claws. In party banter Justice is always harassing him to do so something about it and arguing with him to become an activist. So by the time DA2 starts I feel like Justice persuaded Anders to become an activist and that the best way to do that was to work together with Justice inside him. Justice coerced Anders into merging themselves without thinking of the consequences. In the end Justice acted the same as any demon does... I'm pretty sure in my next play though Of DA2 I'm going to be sympathetic towards Anders the man, but loathe Vengeance and what he's done to this poor soul.

[Pierce Miller]

Nobody explains why they hate a liar and psychopath who blows up a church with innocent people inside, sets a large city ablaze, and sacrifices an entire Circle of the people he is supposedly helping in order to just send a message? 

Innocent people?

[AresKeith]

Was it said that Anders was involved in DAI?

[Reaverwind]

Phew, just finished catching up on the thread. It kinda exploded while I slept.

I've really enjoyed hearing other peoples views on him.

However, people keep talking about how they hated his change between games.... But really the only change was the different voice actor and that he stopped being such a snarky sarcastic guy. Well... He was actually still sarcastic, but not as much as or in the way people liked in Awakening.

I'm currently in the middle of Awakening and have noticed him talk about the plight of the mages A LOT. He also clearly shows his hatred towards the Templar order and the chantry. However, at that point in the game he has no desire to try to "help" anyone else from being free of the circle's claws. In party banter Justice is always harassing him to do so something about it and arguing with him to become an activist. So by the time DA2 starts I feel like Justice persuaded Anders to become an activist and that the best way to do that was to work together with Justice inside him. Justice coerced Anders into merging themselves without thinking of the consequences. In the end Justice acted the same as any demon does... I'm pretty sure in my next play though Of DA2 I'm going to be sympathetic towards Anders the man, but loathe Vengeance and what he's done to this poor soul.

 

Yea, I already saw that Justice was trouble, but unfortunately Awakening didn't allow you to hand him a one-way ticket to the Fade (foreshadowing, anyone?) Even so, it becomes evident through dialog that Anders was a poor fit for the Wardens, and should never have been recruited.

[Lee80]

I don't hate Anders.  Infact there are solid moments where I truly love his character.  I will occasionally still romance him with my Hawkes even, though it feels a bit wrong.  I try my best to roleplay it naturally as my Hawke doesn't know what will happen in the end, but somehow it just seems a bit hollow as I know what's coming.  

 

So now I mainly just befriend him and yeah I have killed him a few times, but it always feels like I'm stabbing myself in the heart so generally I let him live.  I love how his character was written personally!  I think he was meant to evoke strong emotion from both sides of the debate, and to that end he was a huge success it would seem. 

[Lucidae]

Was it said that Anders was involved in DAI?

It is just speculation and discussion of possible/ways of involvement in the game. Original thread title was Anders in DAI, but I received a suggestion to make it an official Anders discussion thread.

[Hellion Rex]

Was it said that Anders was involved in DAI?

Nope. Not at all.

[godModeAlpha]

As much as Anders complicates things in the DA universe, glad to see he has an official Anders Thread, nice one Lucidae.

 

Lets Rekt it

[AresKeith]

It is just speculation and discussion of possible/ways of involvement in the game. Original thread title was Anders in DAI, but I received a suggestion to make it an official Anders discussion thread.

 

It can feel a bit misleading naming the official Anders thread when he hasn't been confirmed to return

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I love Anders and I'd be happy to see him again, but I'm not sure I think he'll be in DA:I. It's just as well for me, if he isn't. I'll just keep imagining he and Hawke are off somewhere together, as I always run away with him in DA2. 

[ladyiolanthe]

Yeah, I still feel pretty sympathetic for Anders, Lucidae. I think my Hawke probably misses him sometimes, if she is still alive.

[godModeAlpha]

It can feel a bit misleading naming the official Anders thread when he hasn't been confirmed to return

 

 

Thought he was confirmed  ... you mean we wont be able to kill him again? 

[Lucidae]

It can feel a bit misleading naming the official Anders thread when he hasn't been confirmed to return

Cole had an official thread before he was confirmed, people were just hoping shaggy blond hair rogue was him.
Cullen also had an official discussion thread AGES before any announcement.

I think this is ok. It is just meant to be the one place where anyone who wants to discuss Anders can do it. I think Speculation in the title helps with people thinking he was announced, the OP is also pretty clear it is speculation.

P.s. If you really think it's a problem would you prefer I just remove the word Official?

[Fialka]

I like Anders a lot.  Absolutely one of my favorite characters in the Dragon Age games.  

 

I can't help but think that the people claiming he's a completely different character than he was in Awakening just weren't paying attention.  If you play Awakening again, and know what to look for, you'll see that he was certainly not the angelic character everyone likes to believe.  Underneath the snark and the charm, you'll see a resentful, frustrated individual who is as capable of selfishness and cowardice as he is compassion and altruism.  Remember those dead Templars we see when we meet him?  Beyond the rather flippant "I didn't do it" comment, he's actually very careful not to say whether he did, in fact, kill them or not.  He isn't shy about telling you how much he hates Templars, hates mage oppression, and even talks about his admiration of the Tevinter empire.  If you have Anders, Justice, and Nathaniel in your party, the foreshadowing of what will happen in DA2 is so strong, I'm actually surprised the idea of Velanna merging with Justice was ever a thing.

 

At first, merging with Justice did exactly what it was supposed to do - it gave Anders the drive to actually do something about the issues that bother him.  He leaves the Wardens, which, according to the short story by Jennifer Hepler, got infiltrated by Templars because of it's reputation for harboring apostates and blood mages. He opens up a free clinic.  He becomes involved in the mage underground.  He becomes more vocal about mage freedom.  People like to call him 'whiny,' but he never 'whines' about himself, just talks about how others are suffering and how it isn't right.  To me, it's like calling a minority whiny because they demand inclusion and equality.

 

Yes, the merger corrupts Justice, because Anders was a poor choice of host (though Velanna would have been much much worse), and Justice in turn corrupts Anders.  It's tragic for them both.  It's even more heartbreaking that Anders can't even trust a friendmanced Hawke fully to tell her/him the truth - about the mage underground, at first, and later about his plans to blow up the Chantry.

 

And, in regards to that - yes, it can be classified as an act of terrorism.  That innocents die as a result is awful (I do not count Elthina as innocent - the fact that she sat on her hands and prayed as the events in Kirkwall visibly spiraled out of control makes he partly to blame, in my opinion).  But - I can also understand why he did it.  And though he had no way of knowing this, it does work as intended.  Meredith overreacts, which causes even those loyal to her to turn on her.  It forces the mages to fight.  It leads to the collapse of all the Circles in Thedas.  It forces a change that is too long overdue.

 

In the end I let him live, and when I romance him we run away together.  I would love to see him again in Inquisition.  I do think that whether or not he/Justice appears should depend on what you chose to do in DA2.  If you kill him, I think that should be the end of it.  But if you like him enough to spare him, or spare him so he has to live with the consequences of his actions, you should get see at least some resolution to that story.

[Lucidae]

I like Anders a lot.  Absolutely one of my favorite characters in the Dragon Age games.  
 
I can't help but think that the people claiming he's a completely different character than he was in Awakening just weren't paying attention.  If you play Awakening again, and know what to look for, you'll see that he was certainly not the angelic character everyone likes to believe.  Underneath the snark and the charm, you'll see a resentful, frustrated individual who is as capable of selfishness and cowardice as he is compassion and altruism.  Remember those dead Templars we see when we meet him?  Beyond the rather flippant "I didn't do it" comment, he's actually very careful not to say whether he did, in fact, kill them or not.  He isn't shy about telling you how much he hates Templars, hates mage oppression, and even talks about his admiration of the Tevinter empire.  If you have Anders, Justice, and Nathaniel in your party, the foreshadowing of what will happen in DA2 is so strong, I'm actually surprised the idea of Velanna merging with Justice was ever a thing.
 
At first, merging with Justice did exactly what it was supposed to do - it gave Anders the drive to actually do something about the issues that bother him.  He leaves the Wardens, which, according to the short story by Jennifer Hepler, got infiltrated by Templars because of it's reputation for harboring apostates and blood mages. He opens up a free clinic.  He becomes involved in the mage underground.  He becomes more vocal about mage freedom.  People like to call him 'whiny,' but he never 'whines' about himself, just talks about how others are suffering and how it isn't right.  To me, it's like calling a minority whiny because they demand inclusion and equality.
 
Yes, the merger corrupts Justice, because Anders was a poor choice of host (though Velanna would have been much much worse), and Justice in turn corrupts Anders.  It's tragic for them both.  It's even more heartbreaking that Anders can't even trust a friendmanced Hawke fully to tell her/him the truth - about the mage underground, at first, and later about his plans to blow up the Chantry.
 
And, in regards to that - yes, it can be classified as an act of terrorism.  That innocents die as a result is awful (I do not count Elthina as innocent - the fact that she sat on her hands and prayed as the events in Kirkwall visibly spiraled out of control makes he partly to blame, in my opinion).  But - I can also understand why he did it.  And though he had no way of knowing this, it does work as intended.  Meredith overreacts, which causes even those loyal to her to turn on her.  It forces the mages to fight.  It leads to the collapse of all the Circles in Thedas.  It forces a change that is too long overdue.
 
In the end I let him live, and when I romance him we run away together.  I would love to see him again in Inquisition.  I do think that whether or not he/Justice appears should depend on what you chose to do in DA2.  If you kill him, I think that should be the end of it.  But if you like him enough to spare him, or spare him so he has to live with the consequences of his actions, you should get see at least some resolution to that story.

I really like your points and agree with you. The mention in whether or not he actually killed the Templars at the start of DAOA is something I didn't really think about before. Good catch.

[Chernaya]

Oh yay, an official Anders thread ~

 

I think there is good reason for him to make an appearance, like I said quite a bit back though, I'm at least hoping for a mention (or a Varric-tale). But yeah, he's one of my favorite characters in the series. If I had my say in the ending, we would have boarded Isabela's ship and sailed the heck away.

 

Anders is more complicated than a lot of people seem to think. I like what Fialka said -- people keep comparing him in Awakening to him in 2. He didn't go from "generic, wise-cracking Alistair clone" to "Crazy abomination". He was way more than just those things, between his struggles, mistakes and emotions. In Awakening he hid under his humor and sarcasm. In 2, that was harder for him to do because of Justice, but you still saw it every once in awhile. I had a hard time feeling anything but pity for him, and what Merrill said to him really sums up a lot of my feelings. "There's no such thing as a good spirit, there never was. I understood that, I'm sorry you didn't."

 

So he's what's left of many mishaps, anger and a struggle he's pretty much lost. I don't defend his actions, what he did was wrong, but I do hope to see or hear how he ends up paying for those actions if he lives. Just killing him is a choice, but a boring one. I prefer the poetic justice of making him live so he can see what he's done.