315 réponses à ce sujet

[Fialka]

I really like your points and agree with you. The mention in whether or not he actually killed the Templars at the start of DAOA is something I didn't really think about before. Good catch.

Just something I noticed in my last playthrough.... every time it's brought up it's like he's intentionally not denying it.  Not sure if the writers meant for it to come across the way it does, or if I just didn't choose the right dialogue options, but it still seems odd that two Templars died with a very capable healer standing right there.  One perfectly capable of bringing down a whole bunch of darkspawn by himself, at that.

[AresKeith]

Cole had an official thread before he was confirmed, people were just hoping shaggy blond hair rogue was him.
Cullen also had an official discussion thread AGES before any announcement.

I think this is ok. It is just meant to be the one place where anyone who wants to discuss Anders can do it. I think Speculation in the title helps with people thinking he was announced, the OP is also pretty clear it is speculation.

P.s. If you really think it's a problem would you prefer I just remove the word Official?

 

Cole and Cullen are a different case because they were pretty obvious compared to Anders

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The only reason I would want Anders in Inquisition i so I can give him a punishment or death worthy of his crimes. Not some merciful stab in the back that results with him looking happy. 

[Lucidae]

Cole and Cullen are a different case because they were pretty obvious compared to Anders

 

I think it is obvious that Anders could make an appearance in DAI because he was so involved in DA2. Like it was said earlier, your choice on what to do with him in DA2 was one of the biggest choices in the game. If you killed him, he wouldn't appear or maybe Vengeance is now using his dead body as a source of more power to further his goals. If you didn't kill him, why wouldn't he make an appearance?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think it is obvious that Anders could make an appearance in DAI because he was so involved in DA2. Like it was said earlier, your choice on what to do with him in DA2 was one of the biggest choices in the game. If you killed him, he wouldn't appear or maybe Vengeance is now using his dead body as a source of more power to further his goals. If you didn't kill him, why wouldn't he make an appearance?

Sparing or killing Loghain was the Origins equivalent to that choice, and Loghain didn't show up in DA2. 

[KC_Prototype]

 

While he started tensions, I think it's a stretch to say that he started the war.  In fact, they don't even mention him much at all in Asunder or in TME.  If anything, I'll place that on the little red-headed snot that thought that framing her childhood best friend for murder as the real starter of the war.

 

As you can tell, I never cared much for Adrian.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, pretty much.  Anders was largely considered a pretty bit player in the grand scheme of things.

 

 

Me too and I still like the character.

 

Wait, when did Asunder take place?

[Lucidae]

Wait, when did Asunder take place?

 

9:40 Dragon, 3 years after what Anders did in Kirkwall.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wait, when did Asunder take place?

Most of it in 9:40, three years after the Kirkwall Incident. 

[Lucidae]

Sparing or killing Loghain was the Origins equivalent to that choice, and Loghain didn't show up in DA2. 

 

Yeah, but what point would there have been in Loghain showing up in DA2? He had no reason to be in the Free Marches. If he was let to live he would be a part of the Grey Wardens who weren't even in the game except for 2 instances. One of which was dependent on taking Anders to the Deep Roads. He could have been there when Stroud and his men were in Kirkwall, but it would make more sense for him to still be in Ferelden helping the Grey Wardens rebuild their order there after he screwed it up.

 

Anders - at least to me, makes sense to appear in DAI because the cause that he was fighting for is now in a full scale war that HE started.

[AresKeith]

Anders - at least to me, makes sense to appear in DAI because the cause that he was fighting for is now in a full scale war that HE started.

 

And most of the Mages probably don't want him near them because of what he did

 

Fiona herself doesn't approve of what Anders did

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, but what point would there have been in Loghain showing up in DA2? He had no reason to be in the Free Marches. If he was let to live he would be a part of the Grey Wardens who weren't even in the game except for 2 instances. One of which was dependent on taking Anders to the Deep Roads. He could have been there when Stroud and his men were in Kirkwall, but it would make more sense for him to still be in Ferelden helping the Grey Wardens rebuild their order there after he screwed it up.

 

Anders - at least to me, makes sense to appear in DAI because the cause that he was fighting for is now in a full scale war that HE started.

About as much point as Alistair showing up as a Warden in Act 2 instead of Stroud. 

[madzilla84]

I didn't read through the entire thread because I knew it'd just be full of hate for my favourite DA character, and I've read it all before.    But I did want to drop by and say that yes, you're not the only one really, really hoping he appears in DAI! (Although, it's possible they'd bring him back and do something completely terrible to him (even more terrible, I suppose) and then I'd wish he hadn't appeared, so I have somewhat mixed feelings about it. )

 

But I guess I'm mostly hoping he does appear and that the choices we made regarding him (romanced vs non-romanced, friend vs. rival, dead vs. alive) are honoured - as while my main Hawke romanced him and ran away with him at the end, I have another who killed him. I'd like to see the differences, though I don't know if we'll actually see him. Perhaps as we have Varric as a party member, we'll be more likely to get something in conversation with him about Anders (and Hawke, if applicable).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And most of the Mages probably don't want him near them because of what he did

 

Fiona herself doesn't approve of what Anders did

That really says something, doesn't it? Fiona, Miss Mage Freedom, writes Anders off as an extremist.

[Lucidae]

About as much point as Alistair showing up as a Warden in Act 2 instead of Stroud. 

 

You're pretty much right. But no matter what you did in Origins though, unless Alistair made the sacrifice he had a cameo in DA2. It was complete fan service. He had a much larger fan base than Loghain, but I can imagine that if DA2 had a longer development time they may have done a Loghain cameo for fans as well.

 

I just think that Anders has more reason than just fan service to show up in the next game.

[Roninbarista]

I don't hate Anders, but his actions are so damn deplorable. It's hard to reconcile a person I liked from the monster he became.

If he turns up, I would not be shocked if he showed up as a villain of sorts. I can see him wanting to good, but it always goes awry.

[frylock23]

I'm not sure if what I feel for Anders is hate. I'm angry with him, certainly, and I'm angry with his writer for making his final quest so transparent. I knew he was going to bomb the Chantry the moment he asked me to help him gather bomb ingredients. I kept waiting for the chance to talk him out of it, especially as he was my Hawke's LI, but I was never given that chance.

 

In the end, I executed him. I felt I had to for several reasons:

 

1.) I was working hard to try to resolve the situation before things got out of hand. My own sister was in the Circle after all. I felt that the best chance to bring an acceptable change was to get Elthina to grow a spine and exercise her authority over Meredith. I kept feeling she was on the cusp of doing that ... until Anders blew her up and forced everyone's hand.

 

2.) Executing Anders might still have backed Meredith down. At this point, as much as I might love Anders, she's my sister and she's trapped and at Meredith's mercy. Anders just openly, defiantly murdered a bunch of people and put my last surviving relative in immediate, mortal danger. Did he not notice how horrible I felt after my own mother was murdered?

 

So, I executed my LI to try to salvage the situation and save my sister and wound up massacring both the Circle and the Templars anyhow.

 

That was the last time I romanced Anders. It was just too hopeless feeling for me to want to go back to that, even attempting not to meta-game.

 

However, I may make a save that spares Anders just to see if he shows up because it would be interesting to see ...

[Reaverwind]

I'm not sure if what I feel for Anders is hate. I'm angry with him, certainly, and I'm angry with his writer for making his final quest so transparent. I knew he was going to bomb the Chantry the moment he asked me to help him gather bomb ingredients. I kept waiting for the chance to talk him out of it, especially as he was my Hawke's LI, but I was never given that chance.

 

In the end, I executed him. I felt I had to for several reasons:

 

1.) I was working hard to try to resolve the situation before things got out of hand. My own sister was in the Circle after all. I felt that the best chance to bring an acceptable change was to get Elthina to grow a spine and exercise her authority over Meredith. I kept feeling she was on the cusp of doing that ... until Anders blew her up and forced everyone's hand.

 

2.) Executing Anders might still have backed Meredith down. At this point, as much as I might love Anders, she's my sister and she's trapped and at Meredith's mercy. Anders just openly, defiantly murdered a bunch of people and put my last surviving relative in immediate, mortal danger. Did he not notice how horrible I felt after my own mother was murdered?

 

 

 

Yea, his callous disregard for your sibling after all your character has been through was over the top. I really wished there had been a proper execution scene where my character hurled some serious verbal abuse at him right before gutting him.  

[thetinyevil]

The Chantry isn't the cause of people's distrust of mages. The Tevinter Empire is.

 

The Alamarri, of whom Andraste was a part, were warring against a tyrannical Empire where only mages ruled and which enslaved their people. The Andrastean commandment that "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him" has its origins in that history. Anyone who wants to argue that mages are dangerous people who need to be controlled, only needs point to Tevinter.

 

The dilemma is that the Mage problem seems to have no easy solution. If given complete freedom you eventually end up with something like Tevinter, where the mages rule like Sith Lords over their non-mage subjects. The alternative isn't pretty either. People are torn from their families and imprisoned (even if its a gilded cage) for no other crime except being cursed with magical ability. And the Templars, as we saw with Meredith and Kirkwall, sometimes forget that they also have a duty to protect mages.

Wrong. It was the chantry that spread the hate. Sure Tevinter didn't help but it is the Chantry is the main culprit. Also Antiva and Orlais is just as bad as Tevinter, with corrupt government and slavery.

 

I can stand when people say that ALL mages WILL become magisters because their mages. That's like saying all men will be come rapist because their men.

[Grieving Natashina]

Spoiler

 

Look tiny, I can respect where you are coming from, but did you really have to go there?  

[Xilizhra]

Spoiler

 

Look tiny, I can respect where you are coming from, but did you really have to go there?  

Well, the analogy is an accurate one.

[Han Shot First]

Wrong. It was the chantry that spread the hate. Sure Tevinter didn't help but it is the Chantry is the main culprit. Also Antiva and Orlais is just as bad as Tevinter, with corrupt government and slavery.

 

I can stand when people say that ALL mages WILL become magisters because their mages. That's like saying all men will be come rapist because their men.

 

The Chantry wouldn't exist without Tevinter. The prohibition against mage rule in the Chant of Light exists because of Tevinter. That doesn't excuse every action taken by the Chantry of course, but you're burying your head in the sand if you refuse to admit that the atrocities committed by Tevinter magisters aren't responsible for the Andrastean taboos against mage rule or blood magic.

 

As for your second point...mage rule has been attempted twice in Thedas. Both times it ended in tyranny. Not exactly a good track record. And in any case I'm not saying that every mage is a potential tyrant. Just that its a fact that if given complete freedom the mages who are potential tyrants will always find a way to exploit their power to dominate others. Absolute freedom for mages will always end with something like Tevinter.

[Xilizhra]

The Chantry wouldn't exist without Tevinter. The prohibition against mage rule in the Chant of Light exists because of Tevinter. That doesn't excuse every action taken by the Chantry of course, but you're burying your head in the sand if you refuse to admit that the atrocities committed by Tevinter magisters aren't responsible for the Andrastean taboos against mage rule or blood magic.

 

As for your second point...mage rule has been attempted twice in Thedas. Both times it ended in tyranny. Not exactly a good track record. And in any case I'm not saying that every mage is a potential tyrant. Just that its a fact that if given complete freedom the mages who are potential tyrants will always find a way to exploit their power to dominate others. Absolute freedom for mages will always end with something like Tevinter.

In and of itself, it doesn't excuse any action taken by the Chantry.

Also, you're incorrect in three ways. Firstly, practically any given government in Thedas, except for Antiva's near-anarchy, could be considered tyrannical in some way. Secondly, there are numerous societies in which mages hold positions of power and aren't particularly tyrannical. Finally, mages have never been completely free in Tevinter; the Circle originated there, many mages are enslaved, and only those mages on top of the heap can act with any sort of impunity.

[thetinyevil]

Spoiler

 

Look tiny, I can respect where you are coming from, but did you really have to go there?  

It was the only comparison I could think of. 

[Hellion Rex]

In and of itself, it doesn't excuse any action taken by the Chantry.

Also, you're incorrect in three ways. Firstly, practically any given government in Thedas, except for Antiva's near-anarchy, could be considered tyrannical in some way. Secondly, there are numerous societies in which mages hold positions of power and aren't particularly tyrannical. Finally, mages have never been completely free in Tevinter; the Circle originated there, many mages are enslaved, and only those mages on top of the heap can act with any sort of impunity.

Hold up. Mages aren't enslaved in Tevinter. At all. The majority are within their seven Circles or acting as Magisters.

 

Also, I wouldn't consider Ferelden tyrannical at all. Neither would I consider Nevarra as such either.