69 réponses à ce sujet

[Dalakaar]

Was playing the Vanguard and the Adept.

 

Honestly, I'm not feeling it.

 

How do you build these two? But more importantly, what're you trying to accomplish with them? How do you set up a smash that doesn't get you killed? What weapons?
 

I'm looking for more than "6/6/6/4/4 w/wraith". What tactics or over all strategies have made these kits work for you? Cause right now I'd much rather just take my HFA instead of the adept. The vanguard... /shrug. Feels like there're better choices there too.

 

Doesn't mean I'm not willing to try a different mode of thought though.

 

If it makes any difference, assume I'm not popping a cyclonics IV on em and I'm looking for ideally plat level play, gold as a maybe.

 

Girl's coming over tonight, gonna try em out in a few matches tomorrow. PC/Access to all weapons but not maxed URs.

 

 

 

Cheers

[Excella Gionne]

I don't really like the Vanguard goon, only the Adept goon. 

 

For the Adept, I use a 6/6/6/4/4 build with Acolyte and Hurricane, or I go for Venom. GPS works very well on him too. 

 

I honestly don't know what to do with the Vanguard, but my build is Lashless. 

[coldflame]

A wall is your best friend when you are playing with the Phoenix class. For smashguard I either use 6/6/3/5/6 for gold or 6/6/0/6/6 for platinum. In terms of gear, Geth scanner is your other best friend.

You used to be able to use Smash in the open in gold matches when the cooldown was just 1.54s but Bioware with their anti-camping stance de-buffed Smash cooldown back to 2.46s. So now you have to use a wall for the Phoenix to be a bit more playable.

[coldflame]

I don't really like the Vanguard goon, only the Adept goon.

For the Adept, I use a 6/6/6/4/4 build with Acolyte and Hurricane, or I go for Venom. GPS works very well on him too.

I honestly don't know what to do with the Vanguard, but my build is Lashless.

Smashguard used to be so good with the old Smash cooldown. You could smash then charge then smash for the biotic charge's power synergy buff, while doing all this in the open. This was because of the short cooldown of smash worked so well with biotic charge. But now it is better to smash walls and since Bioware changed Singularity adept seems to be a bit better than smashguard now in terms of wall smashing and getting biotic explosions.
I run my adept 6/6/6/5/3

[bondiboy]

I find them fairly difficult to play off host without cyclonics. Low shields make it difficult to get up close enough for Smash and HM .

 

Dont want to wall hack an entire game and not a big fan of Lash. More of a  novelty power for me

 

Hard to go wrong with Singularity though and the Vanguard is a better surviver and can do some serious damage with the charge and melee combo if using a power build .

[DemiserofD]

This is the build I've been using lately. His Heavy Melee is basically a Geth heavy melee except without the shield loss, and it can stagger almost anything. In fact, so can his charge. If you charge in and immediately heavy Melee, that will give you DR to soak up the initial damage at which point they'll be staggered; hit them with a smash and dodge around them to avoid incoming fire until your charge regenerates. Remember to shoot a couple shots every now and then to keep staggering anyone who isn't staying as staggerized as they should be.

 

The weirdest thing about him is that his light melee will sometimes lock on, but I can't seem to figure out the conditions to make it happen. I actually hatesurfed with him once and it was really cool, but I haven't been able to reproduce it since. So that's my challenge to you; hatesurf with an ex-cerberus character.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

For the Vanguard, I skip Lash, pick Bonus Charge, and take the Electric evo on Rank 4 of Smash. Combine that with a Talon and Disruptor ammo, and you have a solid kit. Charge, Smash (if BP triggers), roll to the side/backwards, shoot, Charge, repeat.

Remember to cancel the animation for Smash by dodging right as he starts bringing his whips over his head.

[RealKobeBean]

I actually skip Lash on both characters. I used to skip the passives on the Adept, but I hate losing that much power on Smash. Lash is fun, but not as useful on Platinum. 66653 is okay, too, but you're extremely flimsy that way. Nowadays, I only spec into Lash when trolling friends.

[Shinobu]

Corners are your friend with PA. My goal with him is to set off as many BEs as I can, which means getting within smash range without dying. I don't personally use geth scanner because I don't enjoy wallsmashing.

On gold I use 6/6/6/4/4 (going damage, biotic detonations and armor damage whenever possible, shield piercing on lash) with Talon + warpIV and cyclonics. Find a convenient corner to hide behind, cast singularity on something on the other side, shoot, lash if the primed target is far (and not armored,otherwise shoot), smash if it's close. Repeat. Abuse soft cover and RHA. He really shines on small maps with biotic teammates but is good in any situation.

I haven't used him on plat but would probably skip or downgrade lash in that case.

PV is still largely a mystery to me.

[valium]

do not skip lash on the adept, I can see the reasoning on the vanguard, but the adept needs the ranged detonator.

[Darkstar Aurora]

For both characters I use heavy power damage focused builds, though the Adept is the only one I use with any frequency, and that is usually for the Biotic Mastery challenge.

Singularity or Lash for lift/force kills on unarmored enemies.
Smash on armored enemies due to the multiple-multiplicative bonuses that it receives against barriers and armor
Singularity and Smash against bosses and at choke points.

In all the strategy is to deplete the wave budget using Lash and Singularity first, only then do I resort to close quarters combinations on bosses once their flankers are all dead.

6 Singularity [Radius, Lift Damage, Detonate]
6 Lash [Detonate, Damage Over Time, Shield Penetration]
6 Smash [Biotic Combo, Force & Damage, Armor Damage]
5 Phoenix Training [Damage & Capacity, Power Damage]
3 Fitness

M-358 Talon X [Heavy Barrel V, Power Magnifier V]

Drill Rounds III or Armor Piercing Rounds III/IV
Pistol Rail Amp III
Power Amplifier Module III/IV
Geth Scanner V

For the Vanguard I have tried a Biotic Charge (Bonus Power) build combined with full melee damage bonuses and Smash evolved as above, but with no points in Lash. I do not particularly like it as I despise builds that skip powers, and there are several other Vanguards I would rather use regardless (Drell, Asari... the Volus)

[Darkstar Aurora]

On a side note, I feel obliged to point out the absolute nonsense of 'biotic whips' in the mass effect lore...
Biotics are biologically generated mass effect fields, they either:
* Increase mass (Barrier, Stasis, Biotic Sphere, etc)
* Decrease mass (Throw, Pull, Lash, Lift Grenade, etc)
* Distort mass (Warp, Reave, Annihilation Field, Dark Channel, etc)
* Combine one or more of those types of fields into a single effect (Biotic Charge, Singularity, etc)

Biotics are dark energy---they not some pseudo magical substance that can take physical form and be shaped into an object to be used as a tool. Ugh D:

[Olivia Wilde]

I don't really like the Vanguard goon, only the Adept goon. 

 

For the Adept, I use a 6/6/6/4/4 build with Acolyte and Hurricane, or I go for Venom. GPS works very well on him too. 

 

I honestly don't know what to do with the Vanguard, but my build is Lashless. 

This is basically me with the Vanguard

 

My solution is to not play them in Gold and only play them enough to do challenges for their powers

 

I do some smashguarding for laughs (Piranha and Phalanx)

 

Then some lashing of mooks with the adept (acolyte and Locust)

[Catastrophy]

On a side note, I feel obliged to point out the absolute nonsense of 'biotic whips' in the mass effect lore...
Biotics are biologically generated mass effect fields, they either:
* Increase mass (Barrier, Stasis, Biotic Sphere, etc)
* Decrease mass (Throw, Pull, Lash, Lift Grenade, etc)
* Distort mass (Warp, Reave, Annihilation Field, Dark Channel, etc)
* Combine one or more of those types of fields into a single effect (Biotic Charge, Singularity, etc)

Biotics are dark energy---they not some pseudo magical substance that can take physical form and be shaped into an object to be used as a tool. Ugh D:

So what? It's a whip that applies your biologically generated mass effect field to stuff. In fiction.

[Aetika]

I can´t play vanguard at all, so I can comment on adept only.

I skip lash on him and I basically go with singularity, roll to some form of cover and smash(ideally through wall).

If you can´t go for explosion, smash is still pretty powerfull alone, or you can always cast singularity and shoot at whatever gets staggered. I generally finish lesser mooks that way(because it´s faster then waiting for smash to do BE).

He´s pretty fragile, so he is one of the characters you need to be quite mobile with. Using soft cover and dodge a lot. I think he took me like over year until I finally found a good way to play him, so don´t get discouraged, he is very powerfull.

 

Oh, and I use Talon on him btw.

[NuclearTech76]

Hmmm.... my tactics tend not to work as well for others with Vanguards so take them with a grain of salt. 

 

Vanguard

Build

66653 unless playing it for melee.

Bonus charge on BC the rest is up to you. Venom as weapon. Generally you need something to stagger mobs to get you to Smash when bonus charge doesn't come up or to get you to charge when on CD from smash. You're really light on health and shields so you have to inflict major damage in the open quickly and know what you can get away with. The rest of the time you're using wall hacks to smash with. Biotic charge tactically to put yourself in a position to smash through cover. You're going to need to roll cancel smash in the open also which gives you DR, makes you harder to hit, and shortens the smash animation. Lash gives you a little luxury in thinning mobs from long range. It can instakill on some boards as well by sending the enemy off the map. It also gives you a distance detonator for infantry primed with Venom shots. I play with Power Amps mostly. Everything but Praetorians get charged pretty much as long as it doesn't put me in a terrible position on the map. 

[Jugger nuggss]

On the smashdept I spec out of lash and equip the talon pistol and geth scanner. Step out of soft cover to put out a singularity then get back behind a wall to smash all the things. Clean up with a second smash or the talon. Or smash cancel...

[Terminator Force]

Yes, that's all fine and dandy, but what really needs to be known is; what does megabeast have to say on this matter?

 

And how did that melee Vanguard without Lash build work for him? All very important questions that only one person can answer... better go check his N7HQ and see if it's still set for melee...

 

Was playing the Vanguard and the Adept.

 

Honestly, I'm not feeling it.

 

 

I feel exactly the same as you. To me it's like these kits don't even exist at the moment to me. At least I got their challenges done at least once... but it's not like I've done these kits right during that time either...

[TheNightSlasher]

A few basic tips:
1. Smash-cancel with dodge or heavy melee
2. Smash primes phantoms and banshees for BE through their bubble (if specced for biotic combo).
3. Power amp and geth scanner are the best gear for the phoenix kits in team games. Cyclonics, if playing platinum.
4. Their heavy melee is an awesome tool to stagger enemies around you when you are in a tricky situation. It has a pretty huge AoE and nice damage too. And has multipliers against all defenses.

Adept: 66066 with venom
1. I find lash pointless given the way I play him. It's too unreliable for my tastes.
2. Cast singularity on every enemy before running into CQC range. Venom's ability to shoot and stagger while running makes it a very handy weapon. Singularity staggers every humanoid enemy (except phantom) which allows you to close distances as well.
3. Venom also helps dealing with pesky swarmers and seeker swarms that eat your smash meant for ravagers and captains.
4. You can release charged venom shots just before smashing (disruptor ammo helps for TBs) or just after smashing, while doing dodge-cancel (warp ammo helps for biotic damage bonus).
5. Other weapons that work well are: wraith, arc pistol, talon, csmg, falcon.

Vanguard: 66066 with wraith
1. Lash is even more pointless here, except for lulz. Charge and smash give you everything you need.
2. He's hands down the best vanguard to spec into bonus power evo on charge. Post charge, his smash hits like a truck. Always press smash button after charge, if the enemy is alive. If bonus power gets activated, almost all humanoid enemies die to that smash. If not, dodge and shoot. Very aggressive but very rewarding.
3. Another slightly different way to spec him is to go for melee evos in fitness and slap on an omni blade. His rank 6 of fitness boosts power damage after a heavy melee kill. So, charge > heavy melee kill > smash absolutely wrecks stuff. It's even more deadly if you have a pistol with power magnifier.
4. After every charge, I dodge so that I am close to a wall. Then, I use RHA and smash.
5. Other weapons that work well are: venom, talon, graal, GPS.

[Terminator Force]

Hey, TheNightSlasher, very nice post. But could you also answer what the enemy limit on Smash again? And is it ever worth to not take 75% Armour/Shields evo on Smash for the extra enemy it can hit + 50% against everything else (and is that 50% also multiplicative as well?).

[TheNightSlasher]

^ 2 is the limit. 3 if you take the 6b evo of smash. I don't find hitting one additional enemy worth sacrificing 75% damage boost to armor and barriers.

Also, if I have more than 2 enemies in front of me, I cast singularity or shoot/charge and so, the 6b evo feels pointless to me. Venom and charge's radius help mitigate swarmer threat so that I don't lose smash to those bugs.

[NuclearTech76]

Hey, TheNightSlasher, very nice post. But could you also answer what the enemy limit on Smash again? And is it ever worth to not take 75% Armour/Shields evo on Smash for the extra enemy it can hit + 50% against everything else (and is that 50% also multiplicative as well?).

Pretty sure it has a base cap of 2 enemies. 

[Terminator Force]

Alright, thanks to the two answering my question. Next question is the 4th evo on Smash. One here mentioned it + when I opened this topic I too was thinking about that evolution. Won't hurt to try either way, and I think it makes the most sense on the Vanguard out of the two so far too. But I want to hear others thoughts on this matter, and not just from megabeast as some like to add.

[capn233]

It depends on what faction and difficulty you are playing, but I prefer the damage evolution at 6 even if swarmers will screw over your smash.  It is a lot more damage to armor and barriers.  For 4, it doesn't matter, but Biotic is what I think I am running on both currently for use with WA.

 

Whether or not you take Lash on the Adept is up to you.  The style will be pretty different between the two.  Typically the PA with Lash has 4 or 3 fitness and is a glass cannon so to speak.  If you feel like going the cop out route you can use Geth Scanner as your gear.  Otherwise you mostly need to play heads up.  Use Singularity or Lash to quickly CC mooks that may be unexpected.  Smash is not for use in the open because the cooldown is too long, with the exception of if you know there isn't another target with an LOS on you that will shoot you during the animation.  Always cancel it into melee or dodge depending on the situation.  I tend to run the Talon on him but anything works, and it is a Cerberus gun anyway.  You can use anything.  If you aren't soloing with the Javelin, go Biotic Effect on Smash for Warp Ammo priming and all your powers will prime.

 

The Vanguard is practically the only VG I run with Bonus Power on Charge.  He is probably actually slightly easier to play than my 3 Fitness Adept in some ways since you can always spam Charge if all else fails.  Evo on Smash is up to you, I think I have biotic currently, but I don't remember.  Fitness tree is up to you, but in general I prefer either fully evolved with Shields or Melee and then 0 in Lash.  You will be using Smash in the open more than the Adept.  Charge, see if your BP went off or not, then either Smash-melee/dodge or shoot.  You cancel the Smash mainly to stack DR with post-Charge DR.  Take a light gun, or cheese it with Reegar.

 

edit: this topic is moving too fast

[TheNightSlasher]

As for rank 4, the way I see it:
More straight up damage > damage over time.
Singularity's detonate evo can detonate BEs primed from smash. So, it's straight forward on the adept for me.
And I like BEs more than tech combos. And tech combos can be initiated via ammo and there are a lot of ways to do it. Biotics can only be primed via powers, and I like to help my biotic teammates.

Hence 4a all the way.