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Anybody else concerned about the level cap?


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#101
mikeymoonshine

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They said 25-30, which is ambiguous.  Iam thinking 30 could be a softcap and we could possibly go higher than 30 only by using some sort of glitch cheat similar to the one in DA2.  I hope this is the case because I loved that glitch to give myself all the more power once I reached 25 or so through normal gameplay.

 

Yeah if 30 is the softcap then I am not worried. 

 

There are respawns in this game so I assume you can grind if you wish. If the hardcap is 30 then I hope they make it difficult to hit whilst still letting us level up often enough. 



#102
In Exile

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I enjoy having low level caps. Each point becomes more valuable and it forces me to be more "strategic" with how I design my party. Also it makes me want to create more playthroughs to try out new builds and ability combinations.

But I'm sure we'll have some way to respec our Inquisitors and party members in case we don't like the abilities we've chosen.

 

The problem isn't the low cap as much as it is hitting it early. If I'm playing 40% of the game while not getting any XP, then combat becomes a chore than I just need to rush through and escape. 



#103
In Exile

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10?!! And it was still fun? Wow.  I hope one day they update the graphics for that game and maybe I'll try it.  The old school top down games look too cruddy for me to be bothered with.

 

It's a D&D game. It's mechanics are... absolutely nothing like any RPG today. There's no real comparison. 



#104
Narosian

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Personally in DA and DA2 by the time I got to 20 and above I had enough abilities that I didnt partically care about the other levels much.



#105
Zatche

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I'm not really concerned. I don't want the strategy for the end or post game bosses to end up being just grinding.

The problem isn't the low cap as much as it is hitting it early. If I'm playing 40% of the game while not getting any XP, then combat becomes a chore than I just need to rush through and escape.


But if that happened, I'd be rather frustrated with it..

#106
Zatche

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I'm not really concerned. I don't want the strategy for the end or post game bosses to end up being just grinding.

The problem isn't the low cap as much as it is hitting it early. If I'm playing 40% of the game while not getting any XP, then combat becomes a chore than I just need to rush through and escape.


But if that happened, I'd be rather frustrated with it..

#107
snackrat

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Question this brings me is 'talent points'. If there are so few levels, but (literally!) hundreds of talents, how can we reasonably get to the end of ability chains? Someone going through a single playthrough would-- unless...

 

1) They are counting different forms as indivual (eg two upgrades means 'four' - base, up1, up2, both up)

2) Most of them are unique to party members (if each of said members have 25 to them, that's 225 already for the nine companions)

 

Combine both of those together, and there aren't as many as it seems, at least not for the inquisitor. Especially when you account for class division (the Inq will only have access to 1/3 of Inq-specific talents).

 

 

...or perhaps there are alternative ways of collecting talent points, separate from level? Tomes (like DA2), gaining a point each time you close a rift, sacrifice this side to gain that power, so on?



#108
Altima Darkspells

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Personally, I prefer the level cap to be much lower than the total possible XP attainable.

In DAO and DA2, I felt compelled to eek out as much XP I could in order to finish the game as high a level as possible.

Whereas as in, say, BG2, I knew I could max out levels easily (or at least get to the point where extra levels were more of less pointless). This allowed me to skip the parts of the game that I did not enjoy.

#109
BubbleDncr

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In DA:O and DA2, I generally finished the game around level 20-22. And around then, I've generally run out of abilities/spells I really want. So I'm not worried about a level cap of 25-30. 

 

Even with the game being "open world," there's probably not an infinite amount of experience - since you can supposedly kill off all the animals in an area - animals that you'd probably have to kill a ridiculous amount of at higher levels, to gain much experience. 

 

And I expect if they do an expansion pack, they'll increase the level cap in it. But really - I was ridiculously OP everytime I played Awakenings - it almost feels like you could beat the whole thing without ever leveling up. 



#110
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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I'm not the guy you were talking to, but in a game without level scaling, a wide power range effectively means less choice for the player.  Because more things will either be too challenging to deal with, or too weak to provide a worthy challenge.

 

You seem to be using a different definition for "power creep" than he. He seemed to be using it to mean the character is OVERpowered (remember, we're talking about level caps, which he supports and I definitely do not). Which creates the exact opposite situation--the absolute most amount of choice for the player. You can throw your party full of tanks at an enemy and succeed. You can throw your party full of mages at the enemy and succeed. You can use a conventional party of a tank, damage-dealer, healing mage, and damage-dealing/AoE mage. Or you can go it alone and survive.

 

Remember, this is a video game, where the only real option in a combat situation is to succeed. Things that prevent you from playing the party you want to play [because a level 30 mage can ONLY be a damage dealer or a healer, or have a modest amount of constitution, that they're mutually exclusive (this is hypothetical, we do not know if this will be the case)] can ONLY, ONLY, limit your combat options. Not that limits are a bad thing always (any artist knows that limitations are where skill shines through), but when it comes to roleplaying they are.

 

The only "problem" that having an overpowered character brings could be that the combat is not a challenge anymore. Which is exactly how I want it. I don't care about playing on Nightmare. I don't care about games that are all about how hard they are *COUGHDarkSoulsCOUGH*. I don't play games for that stuff. I acknowledge its value, but I don't acknowledge any need to keep me dependent on the system.

 

Comparatively, I play Need For Speed games and the worst thing, the worst thing in the world that drives me crazy, is rubber-banding. level-scaling feels like rubber-banding. Level caps, low ones anyway, can easily feel like rubber-banding.

 

 

This is out of place, but it's following my second paragraph. I want to be able to play a dual-wielding rogue (with a longsword preferably, but Bioware isn't supporting that anymore), one who is admittedly very weak and inaccurate initially, but as levels go by, gets much much more accurate and stronger, and who by the end-game deals more damage than anyone else, and takes less damage than anyone else. Will only 30 levels allow me to do that? Not a large concern, but definitely a concern.



#111
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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In DA:O and DA2, I generally finished the game around level 20-22. And around then, I've generally run out of abilities/spells I really want. So I'm not worried about a level cap of 25-30. 

 

Even with the game being "open world," there's probably not an infinite amount of experience - since you can supposedly kill off all the animals in an area - animals that you'd probably have to kill a ridiculous amount of at higher levels, to gain much experience. 

 

And I expect if they do an expansion pack, they'll increase the level cap in it. But really - I was ridiculously OP everytime I played Awakenings - it almost feels like you could beat the whole thing without ever leveling up. 

 

They've said that if you kill all the animals, other creatures show up, or maybe bandits. And I THINK they implied that the new creatures/bandit would be higher-level, which is very cool.



#112
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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Personally in DA and DA2 by the time I got to 20 and above I had enough abilities that I didnt partically care about the other levels much.

 

It's not about abilities, it's about Dex, Con, Str, all that stuff. THAT'S what matters.

 

 

Question this brings me is 'talent points'. If there are so few levels, but (literally!) hundreds of talents, how can we reasonably get to the end of ability chains? Someone going through a single playthrough would-- unless...

 

1) They are counting different forms as indivual (eg two upgrades means 'four' - base, up1, up2, both up)

2) Most of them are unique to party members (if each of said members have 25 to them, that's 225 already for the nine companions)

 

Combine both of those together, and there aren't as many as it seems, at least not for the inquisitor. Especially when you account for class division (the Inq will only have access to 1/3 of Inq-specific talents).

 

 

...or perhaps there are alternative ways of collecting talent points, separate from level? Tomes (like DA2), gaining a point each time you close a rift, sacrifice this side to gain that power, so on?

 

Well for all we know, we could get 3 or 4 talent points to spend each level. We don't know for sure that it will be one.



#113
Kenny Da Finn

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Question this brings me is 'talent points'. If there are so few levels, but (literally!) hundreds of talents, how can we reasonably get to the end of ability chains? Someone going through a single playthrough would-- unless...

 

1) They are counting different forms as indivual (eg two upgrades means 'four' - base, up1, up2, both up)

2) Most of them are unique to party members (if each of said members have 25 to them, that's 225 already for the nine companions)

 

Combine both of those together, and there aren't as many as it seems, at least not for the inquisitor. Especially when you account for class division (the Inq will only have access to 1/3 of Inq-specific talents).

 

 

...or perhaps there are alternative ways of collecting talent points, separate from level? Tomes (like DA2), gaining a point each time you close a rift, sacrifice this side to gain that power, so on?

 

There's some flawed math going on here.
Let's break it down, for sake of easy math let's say there's 230 abilities on release.
There are three classes so you have to cut that down to about 77 abilities per class(give or take).
Once again for sake of easy math let's bump that up to 80.
Now from the looks of it there is going to be branching skill trees again so lets say 10 skills per tree with 5 on each branch,
This means you have 8 skill trees but we need to remember that 3 of those are specialisations.

This brings the total down to 6 trees or 60 skills.

If you were going to play Warrior or Rogue you will probably only specialise in one weapon type so you are now looking at 5 trees for either of those.

Next I will assume that 30 is max level and that you get 1 point per level.

This means that you can potential get the final skills in all of the skill trees available to you if you follow one branch of the tree.

The other option is that you can master 3 trees completely.

Basically you will be able to pick up 50% of the skills available to you.

 

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's pretty much what you could do in the last games as well wasn't it?



#114
TheLastSuperSaiyan87

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Doesn't really bother me, heck in Origins even after doing every quest and side quest I still couldn't get to 25, I had to use the elfroot trick to get to 25, but could get to 35 in Awakening with no problem. In DA 2 there is no way to get to level 50 unless you do the infinite exp/gold trick and you have to delete all the patches and dlc and play offline to do that so I am ok with a 25-30 cap. 



#115
Estel78

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Level cap by itself means nothing without knowing how many XP you need per level and what's the total XP one can get in one normal playthrough.



#116
dlux

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The game should be soft capped. Hopefully it is soft capped.
 
Nothing more annoying than collecting XP and not seeing the XP counter go up, even if you will never reach another level.