937 réponses à ce sujet

[Gregolian]

So.....  James Bond?  Especially the Brosnan, Moore, and Connery era bonds would be considered a Mary Sue?

[Lucijenifer]

So.....  James Bond?  Especially the Brosnan, Moore, and Connery era bonds would be considered a Mary Sue?

 

Sort of, yes. Lots of people do point out that James Bond is little more than the ultimate male power fantasy and that's the truth of the matter. Until recently, there were absolutely no 'flaws' about the character and even now, he's still that ideal symbol of masculinity that every man would aspire to be.

 

Typically though, it's safe to only use the word 'Mary Sue' when talking about fan fiction. It's really not safe to use the term when you're discussing published fiction of any sort.

[Gorguz]

A lost chance imho. And it is still a bad plotted fact. Why did "I don't want to be a warden" Duncan made Alistair a warden? Bah, what's done it's done. Goddamn.

[Ieldra]

Funny, if any of our video game PCs end up settling down and having kids, won't the children also have parents that are this whatever super person with that special power and ability that has forged legends as they did whatever it was they did?
 
We are the Fionas of the future.

A single exceptional trait is acceptable, common in stories and to some point, necessary. A big collection of exceptional traits with little justification in lore can get a little...suspicious. Fiona has her role in establishing that the Taint can be removed from a person without dying. If that fact is to be established, someone must be the first one and of course that person will be exceptional. Her ascension to Grand Enchanter, however, is suspicious because it bypasses everything that was known previously about how people ascend in the Circle hierarchy, and no sufficient reason was given for that bypass. After that, things add up as we get closer to Alistair.

Also, on its own, "my father/mother/ancestor saved the world" can be a burden as well as a privilege. It all depends on how the story treats that fact.

[Lucy Glitter]

Agree.

Well maybe it isn't a spoiler , and there's nothing about Alistair and Fiona in Inquisition?

And Bioware never wanted to do anything with that secret.

So it just crush speculations and it isn't ruining any big moment in game?

 

It is a spoiler, though. 

 

Sure, I think that's what Laidlaw wanted. 

[Arakat]

Goodbye, Third Theirin Theory. I was so fond of your wonderful alliteration opportunities *sob*

[K-Mart]

Am I the only one that like this? I think it's great

(mind you I guessed it since reading the Calling so it isn't really a shock...)

[Lucy Glitter]

Am I the only one that like this? I think it's great

(mind you I guessed it since reading the Calling so it isn't really a shock...)

 

No it's fabulous! I just think some people would have preferred it to be properly revealed in a... more serious way. 

[Gervaise]

Depending on whether you can improve the status of elves with the Inquisition, actually Alistair having an elven mother is a disadvantage to his status.   I remember him telling my elf girl how he couldn't marry her because people wouldn't accept it (said the same thing if you were a mage), so having a mother who was both an elf and a mage would be pretty scandalous.     I imagine that is why those in the know kept it as quiet as possible and came up with the alternative serving maid story.   If the fact that Fiona was cured of the taint would make him immune to it might account for why they didn't try to keep him out of the Wardens.   It always struck me a bit odd if Eamon was so concerned about the lack of an heir, why he didn't get Alistair recognised and brought to Court or at least available to continue the line if Cailan didn't produce the goods, which as a grey warden would be extremely difficult.     Do you suppose he ever got round to telling Alistair of the big secret because he seemed blissfully unaware of his true origins.

 

There were a lot of things about Fiona leaving the Grey Wardens and becoming Grand Enchanter that seemed odd to me.   I was hoping they might be explained in DAI but if she gets killed off near the beginning I suppose it won't matter.

[WardenKing]

Oh! We now know! Yes! My suspicion was correct afterall.

[TheChris92]

Alistair is extremely close to being a Mary Sue now.
 
Dragon blood, mother is a ex warden who cured her taint and was leader oft he mages, a grey warden, has templar powers, is possible king...
 
Jesus christ, there are fan fics better then this. Extremely disappointed.

Alistair of House Theirin, First of his name is the Dovahkiin, King of the Andals, the one who will bring balance to the Force, the Keyblade Master, Champion of Just, Hero of Neverwinter, Ace Detective, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Clown Prince of Comedy, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Father of Dragons and Protector of the Realm.

[Dean_the_Young]

Because she's a mage, cleary.

Because she's a female mage who agrees with Xil (or vice versa), more clearly.

[Dean_the_Young]

So, let's see.

 

He's elf-blooded, that just makes him a mongrel. Nothing special about that.

The dragon-blood thing isn't too major, considering it exists in every other descendant of Ferelden's founder and it has no major effect. It's just a plot device.

And being of Orlesian descent means nothing either, so long as he culturally raised as a man of Ferelden.

 

It's just a character with lots of plot devices surrounding it. Yes, he's special but almost none of these special traits are advantages, they're all just plot hooks to push the story along.

 

Agreed. It could make him a writers pet (which is a fair charge, albeit one that could be aimed at any companion with post-game content), but really doesn't make him a Sue.

[DinkyD]

Well I'm not surprised but I am disappointed.

 

Reminds me of why I stopped reading fantasy fiction years ago – well written and convincing characters in the first instance that when time goes on become so beloved of their writers that they can have nothing in anyway commonplace or dull about them. Can't have a parent that's just a servant, far to modest, lets add X,Y and Z.....and so characters become less..authentic feeling I suppose.

 

Dragon Age seemed to avoid that kind of writing and got me interested in the genre again. Shame. Sort of losing interest now.

 

So how is the timeline explained? (Not read The Calling so I may be in error but I understand it throws up a problem) Not only does Loghain think that Alistair was born when Rowan(?) was alive but Alistair does too (There's a conversation pre-landsmeet where he describes Eamon as the brother of the woman his father cheated on to produce him) So is Alistair wrong about his own age? Or the date of death of the country's Queen?

[Afro_Explosion]

Alistair doesn't seem that special: he doesn't have any special dragon blood powers, and being elf blooded makes him still human.

[Hazegurl]

Alistair is alright.... But this potential immunity to the Calling? The Hero of Ferelden is further pigeon-holed into the role of glorified janitor while Alistair reaps all the benefits of his hard work. I'm considering changing my main world state to Drunk Alistair so that the Warden becomes king and gets the last laugh.

That's my male warden canon playthrough. He marries Anora and leaves Alistair a drunken nobody at the hanged man for Hawke and Co. to laugh at. I like to think my warden got his taint cured while in the mirror with Morrigan and his God baby though.

 

Overall, I hate all these additions to Alistair. They might as well had just made him the freaking main character instead of the Warden. But then again, I'm glad he's not.

[Hazegurl]

Not Brosnan at least. Famke Janssen kicked the **** out of him and upstaged him through the whole movie.

Is Famke the one that got his balls whipped? Cause my mother never stops talking about that scene.

[Xilizhra]

That's my male warden canon playthrough. He marries Anora and leaves Alistair a drunken nobody at the hanged man for Hawke and Co. to laugh at. I like to think my warden got his taint cured while in the mirror with Morrigan and his God baby though.

 

Overall, I hate all these additions to Alistair. They might as well had just made him the freaking main character instead of the Warden. But then again, I'm glad he's not.

Well, how could they attach dragon blood and the like to the Hero of Ferelden?

[Arakat]

Is Famke the one that got his balls whipped? Cause my mother never stops talking about that scene.

 

Nah, that was Mads Mikkelsen in the first Daniel Craig movie

[TK514]

My dislike for this is really more about adding yet another absurdity to Fiona's list of absurdities than it is about Alistair, who is basically a failure the Warden has to (potentially) succeed in place of.

Fiona, on the other hand, is just a bit too magical special awesome snowflake for my tastes. An elf mage slave with included traumatic experience (because being an elf, slave, and mage wasn't sad enough, apparently), who murders her master and isn't immediately executed in spite of living in a world where elves, mages, and slaves are often killed for no reason at all. She then goes on to be a Grey Warden who hangs out with the Mentor before he was the Mentor, the King of the Land and the Hero of the Land when they were still awesome adventurers. And not only does she hang out with them, but they think she is the most awesome Grey Warden Mage that ever Grey Warden Maged in the history of Grey Warden Maging. And on their adventure, they basically do all the Architect parts of Awakening before it is cool, because the Warden Commander can suck it. Oh! Oh! And in spite of hating each other and having zero in common (plus traumatic past!) she bangs the King. Because reasons on her part and because Maric can't go too long without sexing someone not named Rowan or he loses his superpowers. And then she goes and hangs out with the First Warden. Oh, and has a kid. With the King.

But wait! There's more!

Now that we've established that she is the most awesome Warden ever, she's cured of the Taint because that crap was just holding her back. Now she joins the Circle and everyone loves her, and because she is the most admirable and awesome mage ever, they promote her to the highest position possible, you know, in spite of other Mages who have lived their entire lives in the Circle probably having more in common with their fellow Circle Mages. Because everyone loves her. And, of course, she is just the bestest Grand Enchanter.

But wait! There's more!

In spite of the Circle being an evil slave prison of evilness where evil Templars evilly control every facet of mage lives(with evil), including which mages get to wear the fancy mage leadership hats, she manages to get the whole Mage Leadership together and hold a democratic vote to tell the evil Templars to go away. AND IT FAILS! THE TRAGEDY! So, because the evil Templars are evil and control every facet of mage life, including which mages get to wear the fancy mage leadership hats, she is immediately removed from office and killed, because this mage freedom business is Not Acceptable.

Oh, wait, no. This is Fiona, so that last bit doesn't happen. The evil Templars just let her keep doing her thing, because Fiona. And to the surprise of no one, and because way back when she got de-Tainted she decided she was going to be Mage Moses, she does it again! And wins! And despite being in a tower full of evil Templars created and trained for the sole purpose of putting mages down, they all escape and yay.

The End.

Oh, wait, no. That kid she had with the King goes on and hangs out with another Warden who does some cool stuff like Fiona (but she totally did some of it first, and cooler). And her son, and Marric's, rest his not yet dead soul, goes on to (maybe) become King.

NOW The End (until Inquisition. Maybe.)

Honestly, you could distribute Fiona's accomplishments to three characters and not a one of them would have reason to feel lacking in the presence of the Warden who united a nation and saved the world.

[Xilizhra]

Fiona is precisely whom I wanted my Warden to be, minus the pregnancy. And maybe some of the background trauma. But since I can't do that with a mage Warden, I'll happily follow Fiona... and if she is the secret romance option, I'll be all over her.

[ladyofpayne]

This is over. No seriously-  That was clear after I've read the book.