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[TK514]

Same argument can be used with Hawk and the warden.

Ah, no.

Potentially with the Warden, since the Origins give you the opportunity to be a worthless slug, but at the same time, they all give you the opportunity to be someone who is at least attempting to master their own fate.

Hawke, on the other hand is handed to us as a prodigy who has been leading the family since their father's death and is widely regarded as superlative. That's one of Carver's biggest complaints, in fact. Hawke's shadow is so long, and reputation so grand that Carver doesn't believe he could ever compete, and he's tired of being "Hawke's brother" instead of "Carver". Even Bethany can remark on it, though she doesn't have the same kind of inadequacy issues he does.

[Hazegurl]

To be fair I think that's a bug. If you read the codex entries the blood magic ritual and circle ritual are backwards. The only one that registers correctly is killing Connor.

The bugs are usually about the warden killing connor even if you choose to save him or his mother dying or the ones below.

 

 

That hardly changes anything about the epilogues.

True. Also the Connor slides are bugged and won't even mention his fate if Eamon stays in Denerim.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Also now I'm curious about the mother amulet you give to Alistair as a gift.

 

Now that Fiona is 100% his mum, does that mean Alistair is running around with some random servants amulet thinking it belongs to his real mum?

 

There was literally no mention or hint of Fiona ever being his mum (outside one book) that this feels like a random sucker punch.

[leaguer of one]

Yes he does, The demon maintains the link and can possess him in the future.. for all we know that could have been why he passed his harrowing in that scenario. Also, you are now headcanoning things. You have no idea if Connor can repel the demon in the future. And yes, it is a valid point to use because different things can happen with Connor, not just the one YOU choose.

 

Essentially, without metagaming you have no clue what will happen in the future and everything you do is by chance.

 

You don't know if Jowan's blood magic will work thus sacrificing a person's life for nothing.

You don't know if you will have time to trek to the Circle to get help for him.

If you stay and help the Circle, you don't know if that time eats into when that kid will launch a new attack or even something worse to those inside the castle.

And you don't know if he will get sent to the Circle to live normally or be made tranquil regardless of your help. Considering what they went through I can't see them not making him tranquil right off the bat. imo.

 

Overall. Only ONE scenario has him passing his Harrowing without that demon link and it doesn't involve trekking all the way to the Circle for aid.

Can became  possessed does not mean being possessed.

[Dean_the_Young]

A writers pet who can die like a dog?

Fern Gully, anyone?

 

But, yes actually. It's not DAO itself that makes Alistair into an author's pet: it's the involvement and treatment outside the scope of that which would. Personally I'm ambivalent, but my eyebrow raises the more special snowflake it gets.

[leaguer of one]

Also now I'm curious about the mother amulet you give to Alistair as a gift.

 

Now that Fiona is 100% his mum, does that mean Alistair is running around with some random servants amulet thinking it belongs to his real mum?

 

There was literally no mention or hint of Fiona ever being his mum (outside one book) that this feels like a random sucker punch.

That amulet is elven.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

That amulet is elven.

Since the amulet is described as having andraste's flame on it, that's a pretty weird elven amulet. 

[leaguer of one]

Fern Gully, anyone?

 

But, yes actually. It's not DAO itself that makes Alistair into an author's pet: it's the involvement and treatment outside the scope of that which would. Personally I'm ambivalent, but my eyebrow raises the more special snowflake it gets.

Do you know how many character's in da:o are given spical treatment past da:o? 

Sten is the Arishok. Lilianna is the left hand of the divine. Morrigan is an adviser of the empress of orlias. Wynne become the archemage of the cirlce.Zavern takes over the crows.

[leaguer of one]

Ah, no.

Potentially with the Warden, since the Origins give you the opportunity to be a worthless slug, but at the same time, they all give you the opportunity to be someone who is at least attempting to master their own fate.

Hawke, on the other hand is handed to us as a prodigy who has been leading the family since their father's death and is widely regarded as superlative. That's one of Carver's biggest complaints, in fact. Hawke's shadow is so long, and reputation so grand that Carver doesn't believe he could ever compete, and he's tired of being "Hawke's brother" instead of "Carver". Even Bethany can remark on it, though she doesn't have the same kind of inadequacy issues he does.

Only 2 of the origns have that. The elven and dalish one have no chance of that. The mage one you have no choice but to be a circle mage. the dwarven commoner you are only part of the proving because the guy you;re trying to help is too drunk to fight. Sorry but the same arguement can be used for the warden.

 

Hawke is 25 with no trade, especially if he's a mage. He has literly done nothing with his life yet out side of staying with his family.

[leaguer of one]

It quite obviously wasn't canonized from the start. If it was, we wouldn't have had Alistair's quest where he meets Goldanna. There is no need for Goldanna if she was never intended to be Alistair's sister. Who was the baby that Goldanna's mother gave birth to? And how was it that Alistair ended up being passed off as that infant? Also Loghain's dialogue about Rowan still being alive also implies that originally his mother was supposed to be the human serving girl that birthed Goldanna, rather than Fiona. The dialogue about Rowan doesn't make sense because in order to make Fiona Alistair's mother, Alistair would need to be younger and born after Rowan died. 

 

This is obviously an idea that Gaider latched onto after DA:O released. He pulled a Lucas. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work, given what was already presented in DA:O.

Or it just show how much they went to cover up that Alistair was the king's son. It was not even common knowledge out side the family. And Alistair was born after she died. The call ends the same year Alistair was born.

[leaguer of one]

Only the former explains where Goldana might get the idea, but seems rather out of character for Maric.  She was convinced, not just that the child was the kings, but also that they shared a mother.  The whole thing's just odd.

The fact that she thinks she  share a mother an be easily explain that she was tricked. She never saw the baby that was born form her mother and has no way to link that babe to Alistair. At most she can assume.

[Dean_the_Young]

Do you know how many character's in da:o are given spical treatment past da:o? 

Sten is the Arishok. Lilianna is the left hand of the divine. Morrigan is an adviser of the empress of orlias. Wynne become the archemage of the cirlce.Zavern takes over the crows.

 

Which is why I said, way back when, it was a charge that could be aimed at any of the other characters it applied to. And why I said I was ambivalent on the subject.

 

Thank you for supporting my earlier point.

[TK514]

Only 2 of the origns have that. The elven and dalish one have no chance of that. The mage one you have no choice but to be a circle mage. the dwarven commoner you are only part of the proving because the guy you;re trying to help is too drunk to fight. Sorry but the same arguement can be used for the warden.

Hawke is 25 with no trade, especially if he's a mage. He has literly done nothing with his life yet out side of staying with his family.

The City Elf is considered a pillar of their community, the Dwarven Commoner can be trying to improve their lot, the Dalish is a promising young hunter. Edit: And the Mage is considered the finest apprentice in the Circle. All choices they made to be more than a whining do nothing.

Hawke's trade, regardless of skillset, is farmer. And again, Hawke has made choices that made them well respected in their community and, outside of Mage, noteworthy for their skills. The entire prologue and Act I are an undiluted Ode to Hawke Being Awesome. Hawke's reputation for being awesome is even used as an accusation when the Ogre kills a sibling. We're bludgeoned with Hawke's skill, ability, and unmitigated awesome. Even a thousand miles away, with only a year to work on it, Hawke's awesome is remarked on by Kirkwall's underworld and Carver is still *itching about it. And unlike Alistair, Hawke doesn't stick around Lothering because they have no ambition to go anywhere else, they stick around because they made a choice to protect and provide for their family. Alistair is a waste of space, Hawke is a virtual parent.

No comparison.

[Shadow Fox]

XD maybe she'll die in the chantry explosion and Alistair can have a dramatic WHY MOM WHY?!? yell?

But he doesn't  know they're related he thinks his mother was a maid.

 

And even if he did doubt he'd be happy she abandoned him...

[leaguer of one]

The City Elf is considered a pillar of their community, the Dwarven Commoner can be trying to improve their lot, the Dalish is a promising young hunter. Edit: And the Mage is considered the finest apprentice in the Circle. All choices they made to be more than a whining do nothing.

Hawke's trade, regardless of skillset, is farmer. And again, Hawke has made choices that made them well respected in their community and, outside of Mage, noteworthy for their skills. The entire prologue and Act I are an undiluted Ode to Hawke Being Awesome. Hawke's reputation for being awesome is even used as an accusation when the Ogre. We're bludgeoned with Hawke's skill, ability, and unmitigated awesome. Even a thousand miles away, with only a year to work on it, Hawke's awesome is remarked on by Kirkwall's underworld and Carver is still *itching about it. And unlike Alistair, Hawke doesn't stick around Lothering because they have no ambition to go anywhere else, they stick around because they made a choice to protect and provide for their family. Alistair is a waste of space, Hawke is a virtual parent.

No comparison.

The city elf's family is considered a pillar of the community not the city elf themselves and it's mostly their father. The dwarven commoner is trying to survive not improve their lot, the only one remotely doing that is their sister and that's through trying to become pregnant. The dalish is a promising hunter who just go started and still has not become anything yet. The mage maybe a great apprentice  but they still have not been anything yet it's just positional.

 

Hawke is just will liked in his community he still has not been anything yet.  Hawke being great in the underworld is just his path to becoming something. We are taking about before that. And Hawke staying in Lothering was nothing to do with protecting his family. It was because it was his home.

[leaguer of one]

"If Connor is saved and the Desire Demon killed or scared away, Arl Eamon may merely comment that Connor has been acting strangely. This will happen if his mother, Lady Isolde, also survives the events in Redcliffe."

 

Idk if I trust that.

Wrong...http://dragonage.wik...Connor_is_alive

 

He only acts strange if the demon is still alive. He does not even get to the circle if the demon is still alive.

[leaguer of one]

But he doesn't  know they're related he thinks his mother was a maid.

 

And even if he did doubt he'd be happy she abandoned him...

A former warden  circle mage can keep children?

[Reaverwind]

Ah, no.

Potentially with the Warden, since the Origins give you the opportunity to be a worthless slug, but at the same time, they all give you the opportunity to be someone who is at least attempting to master their own fate.

Hawke, on the other hand is handed to us as a prodigy who has been leading the family since their father's death and is widely regarded as superlative. That's one of Carver's biggest complaints, in fact. Hawke's shadow is so long, and reputation so grand that Carver doesn't believe he could ever compete, and he's tired of being "Hawke's brother" instead of "Carver". Even Bethany can remark on it, though she doesn't have the same kind of inadequacy issues he does.

 

Hawke was a prodigy? That's news to me. In my opinion, that family was several shades of screwed up. Somehow, dear old mom got into their heads they needed to stay together at all costs to protect Bethany (and possibly Hawke) at a time when the older ones at least should have been leaving the nest. Ostagar is the first time Carver (and potentially Hawke) started showing independence. It's no wonder Carver is resentful, and Bethany has no backbone.

[sunnydxmen]

its official he is a mary sue would have been a better thread title.

[leaguer of one]

its official he is a mary sue would have been a better thread title.

Seriously, he's not a mary sue nor does this make him a mary sue.

[Hazegurl]

Can became  possessed does not mean being possessed.

If you say so. smh

[Shadow Fox]

I'm sorry but I'm laughing my ass off at the people saying Alistair is a mary sue.

[DinkyD]

Or it just show how much they went to cover up that Alistair was the king's son. It was not even common knowledge out side the family. And Alistair was born after she died. The call ends the same year Alistair was born.

 

I'm not sure who is “they” is in this context. to me only demonstrates how much effort the WRITERS went to to hide the identity of his mother from the players, not his father from the other characters. So much effort that that whole thing when revealed is made out to be inconsistent.

 

Also they (characters in game) tell Alistair he was the King's son, but also, for some reason, tell him that he's older than he actually is, so that they can also tell him that his father cheated? To what end?

[Hazegurl]

Hawke was a prodigy? That's news to me. In my opinion, that family was several shades of screwed up. Somehow, dear old mom got into their heads they needed to stay together at all costs to protect Bethany (and possibly Hawke) at a time when the older ones at least should have been leaving the nest. Ostagar is the first time Carver (and potentially Hawke) started showing independence. It's no wonder Carver is resentful, and Bethany has no backbone.

In mother Hawke defense. They were poor and I doubt had many options for leaving the nest. Although, I would have liked for Hawke to return to Ferelden. Kirkwall felt like a giant prison.

 

@Red Zaku, Alistair isn't the Mary sue. It's his mother, Fiona. Making her Alistair's mother is just one more thing added on to Fiona's awesomeness.

[TK514]

Hawke was a prodigy? That's news to me. In my opinion, that family was several shades of screwed up. Somehow, dear old mom got into their heads they needed to stay together at all costs to protect Bethany (and possibly Hawke) at a time when the older ones at least should have been leaving the nest. Ostagar is the first time Carver (and potentially Hawke) started showing independence. It's no wonder Carver is resentful, and Bethany has no backbone.

Bethany and Carver are twins. Hawke was the older one, and helped take up the slack after their father's death. Carver's main, continual, repetitive, ongoing, never ending, For-the-love-of-Andraste-shut-up-Carver complaint, is how awesome Hawke is and how he hates being in Hawke's shadow. It's Carver's defining trait.