937 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

So we must fervently hope that she does not.

Nothing would please me more to see her and Adrian die in the Big Boom so I don't have to deal with them*oh why couldn't Celene,Gaspard and Briala be there too? *

 

So no I'm hoping for the opposite.

[leaguer of one]

I'm not sure who is “they” is in this context. to me only demonstrates how much effort the WRITERS went to to hide the identity of his mother from the players, not his father from the other characters. So much effort that that whole thing when revealed is made out to be inconsistent.

 

Also they (characters in game) tell Alistair he was the King's son, but also, for some reason, tell him that he's older than he actually is, so that they can also tell him that his father cheated? To what end?

For the last time, the date the story states in the book is an error. The people at bw already stated it an corrected it and even made a correct in world of thedus. The book ends 20 years before the blight which is the same year Alistair was born. This also has nothing to do with the player  and the pc but with Alistair. Every game story is told from the perspective of the characters in the story so out side info has no influence on the actions of the pc's. This was never meant to hide it from the player character but from Alistair. It's not an inconsistency for a character to not know about info out side their scope. It would be like say the fact that the Architect wanting to turn everyone to ghouls is an inconsistency because the pc never learns about it.

 

And who is  "they" is obvious. The extended family of Maric.

[leaguer of one]

If you say so. smh

Every mage can be possessed... Does that means they are possessed?

[leaguer of one]

Bethany and Carver are twins. Hawke was the older one, and helped take up the slack after their father's death. Carver's main, continual, repetitive, ongoing, never ending, For-the-love-of-Andraste-shut-up-Carver complaint, is how awesome Hawke is and how he hates being in Hawke's shadow. It's Carver's defining trait.

And Hawke is still not anything yet. Potential is not something, it what you can be. Hawke is more liked and looked up to, that does not mean they are anything yet at the start of the story.

[leaguer of one]

In mother Hawke defense. They were poor and I doubt had many options for leaving the nest. Although, I would have liked for Hawke to return to Ferelden. Kirkwall felt like a giant prison.

 

@Red Zaku, Alistair isn't the Mary sue. It's his mother, Fiona. Making her Alistair's mother is just one more thing added on to Fiona's awesomeness.

And Fiona is not a mary sue ether. How is giving birth to some who becomes a king a positive trait?

[Shadow Fox]

I'll bring the booze

I'll bring the music and party favors.

 

Touch him and there will be nothing but ashes left of you, maleficar.

Says the Blood Mage.

[MisterJB]

Now Fiona is Marie Suing other characters. She's like a Darkspawn of bad writing spreading bligth and needs to be stopped.

[Grieving Natashina]

Why is this a big deal?  It's 80% in side content that's not even in the game anyway.  Liara was *much* more Sueish/writer's pet (though I think those are both borderline meaningless words) since she is unkillable, a major force in all three games, becomes the Shadow Broker, saves Shepard, etc. etc. 

 

To me this mostly smacks of "I really don't like Alistair so I resent him being important and/or cool and/or unique!"

I'm honestly surprised that this is still going.  As long as folks aren't ripping into each other and staying mostly on topic, it'll probably stay open.

 

I love how the term "Mary Sue," is synonymous with "Character I hate."

 

<notices a couple of mages fighting>

 

You guys have fun.  

[MisterJB]

Nothing would please me more to see her and Adrian die in the Big Boom so I don't have to deal with them*oh why couldn't Celene,Gaspard and Briala be there too? *

 

So no I hoping for the opposite.

Honestly, I'm surprised Fiona isn't the one that gains the magical hand.

C'mon, I'm pretty sure there's more special things we can keep pilling onto her "character".

 

Please let her be a casualty of the Breach. PLEASE!

[Han Shot First]

It was always canonized. And Loghain's dialogue was off from the state being that he states Rowan was alive when Alistair was born when she was not. This does not make anything in DA:O not make sense or Alistair a mary sue.

 

Incorrect.

 

Loghain's dialogue only had problems once it was confirmed that Fionawas Alistair's mother. If Goldanna's mother is Alistair's mother, there are no timeline issues and it is quite possible for Rowan to still be alive when Alistair is born. The only reason why Alistair *must* be born after Rowan died, is because Fiona doesn't meet Maric until after Rowan dies. Goldanna's mother would have no such timeline restriction and the problem with Loghain's dialogue is entirely linked to canonizing Fiona.

 

That also points to Fiona being Alistair's mother as being a late development, rather than something that was planned when DA:O was written.

[leaguer of one]

Incorrect.

 

Loghain's dialogue only had problems once it was confirmed that Fiona was was Alistair's mother. If Goldanna's mother is Alistair's mother, there are no timeline issues and it is quite possible for Rowan to still be alive when Alistair is born. The only reason why Alistair *must* be born after Rowan died, is because Fiona doesn't meet Maric until after Rowan dies. Goldanna's mother would have no such timeline restriction.

 

That also points to Fiona being Alistair's mother as being a late development, rather than something that was planned when DA:O was written.

Nope. Their is nothing stating Rowan was alive with Alistair was born.  It was conferm  Calin was still very young when she died and that was before Alistair was born. The conversation with Loghain about Rowan being alive when Alistair was born is off. It stated she died in 9:8. Alistair was born 9:10. This was stated before the calling.

[Han Shot First]

Nope. Their is nothing stating Rowan was alive with Alistair was born.  

 

Loghain stated it.

 

Again, Loghain's dialogue *only* becomes incorrect if Fiona is the mother. If Fiona is not the mother, it isn't incorrect.

 

As for Alistair's birthdate of 9:10 Dragon...that is also established by the books by having Fiona as his mother. That is the only place in the series (beyond the World of Thedas, which was likely rollng with the Fiona canon) that establishes that as Alistair's birth year. In DA:O his birthdate is never mentioned. Had the devs stuck with Goldanna's mother as being Alistair's parent, it is possible for him to be a few years older and born while Rowan still lived. (and thus not contradicting Loghain's dialogue)

[Shadow Fox]

I'm honestly surprised that this is still going.  As long as folks aren't ripping into each other and staying mostly on topic, it'll probably stay open.

 

I love how the term "Mary Sue," is synonymous with "Character I hate."

 

<notices a couple of mages fighting>

 

You guys have fun.  

I still remember how people called Leliana a writer's pet because "how dare a character survive my attempt to murder them for disagreeing with me!".

[Hazegurl]

And Fiona is not a mary sue ether. How is giving birth to some who becomes a king a positive trait?

Her giving birth to Alistair is only one of the many many many things she has going on. The post a few pages back already addresses this very well.

 

@Red Zaku, I think Leilana's survival was more of a writer oversight than her being a pet. Bioware just had to ride that mistake.

[Grieving Natashina]

I still remember how people called Leliana a writer's pet because "how dare a character survive my attempt to murder them for disagreeing with me!".

Called? More like are still calling her a "writer's pet."

[Former_Fiend]

Nope. Their is nothing stating Rowan was alive with Alistair was born.  It was conferm  Calin was still very young when she died and that was before Alistair was born. The conversation with Loghain about Rowan being alive when Alistair was born is off. It stated she died in 9:8. Alistair was born 9:10. This was stated before the calling.

 

Loghain, Maric's best friend and confidant, said that the reason Maric didn't raise Alistair himself was because it would have publicly humiliated Rowan. Not humiliate her memory(I don't believe anyone expects a king to remain faithful to a dead woman), but humiliate her.

[leaguer of one]

Her giving birth to Alistair is only one of the many many many things she has going on. The post a few pages back already addresses this very well.

 

@Red Zaku, I think Leilana's survival was more of a writer oversight than her being a pet. Bioware just had to ride that mistake.

Many thing? The only thing that made her special is that she was a mage and a warden who got out of being a sex slave. That does not make anyone special.

[leaguer of one]

Loghain, Maric's best friend and confidant, said that the reason Maric didn't raise Alistair himself was because it would have publicly humiliated Rowan. Not humiliate her memory(I don't believe anyone expects a king to remain faithful to a dead woman), but humiliate her.

And it off from the date she died.

[leaguer of one]

x

[Han Shot First]

Loghain, Maric's best friend and confidant, said that the reason Maric didn't raise Alistair himself was because it would have publicly humiliated Rowan. Not humiliate her memory(I don't believe anyone expects a king to remain faithful to a dead woman), but humiliate her.

 

Indeed.

 

Loghain stated that Maric didn't want to acknowledge Alistair for fear of making Rowan a concubine in the eyes of the people of Ferelden. You can't make a concubine out of a woman that has been long dead.

[DinkyD]

For the last time, the date the story states in the book is an error. The people at bw already stated it an corrected it and even made a correct in world of thedus. The book ends 20 years before the blight which is the same year Alistair was born. This also has nothing to do with the player  and the pc but with Alistair. Every game story is told from the perspective of the characters in the story so out side info has no influence on the actions of the pc's. This was never meant to hide it from the player character but from Alistair. It's not an inconsistency for a character to not know about info out side their scope. It would be like say the fact that the Architect wanting to turn everyone to ghouls is an inconsistency because the pc never learns about it.

 

And who is  "they" is obvious. The extended family of Maric.

My point is that the writers made such a good case of convincing us as players that Alistair's mother was a servant in the Arl's house is that they left themselves inadequate leeway to change it further down the line in this radical way imho.

 

This is not from pc and Alistair's perspective, but my own, as a player and reader. What Alistair knows, or thinks he knows, is irrelevant. It's a question of world consistency.

 

I might change my mind that this is not a re-write if someone comes up with an adequate explanation of the following for a start:

 

How Goldanna became convinced that her mother was pregnant with the King's child, so that it was necessary to buy her off.

 

Why both Loghain AND Alistair (whom I think I am safe to assume have never spoken together on this subject) think that Rowan was alive when Alistair was either born/conceived. And most bafflingly, why was Alistair told he was conceived while Rowan was still alive thus lying to him about his age. Or if he wasn't deliberatly lied to, why does he think this?

[Shadow Fox]

LOL. The only character that should have second thoughts about keeping the Anvil is a Casteless Dwarf. It shouldn't matter to every other origin except for the Dwarf Noble who should want to preserve it no matter what.

You mean the Human or Dwarf Noble who were betrayed by a corrupt Noble who was close to them,The Dalish who had a close encounter with a dangerous magical artifact,The Mage who's had the dangers and consequences of magical misuse drilled into them since they were a small child and the City Elf who's lived under the brutal heel of oppression their whole life?

 

You're seriously saying none of them should question the wisdom of letting the Anvil exist and giving it to amoral psychopaths to do what they please with it?