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[Shadow Fox]

I hope Fiona tells Alistair he is of elven blood before she dies because if not, then he will never know. Also, I wish Alistair wasn't elf blood, I know I specist or whatever! I like elves but wish he was fully human.

I hope she doesn't the poor bastard's already had to deal with his father,sister and foster father not wanting him.

[Reaverwind]

And sacrifice Loghain? Not happening. I know a lot of people disagree, but killing Loghain is a waste of a great character. I'd rather see him return as a Warden or dying in the Redemption ending. 

 

I'm not impressed with Loghain, either. While I would have recruited him, I was unwilling do so at the cost of losing Alistair. And since the intention was always to throw Loghain at the arch-demon, he dies anyway. Besides, Anora and Loghain owed my warden the proverbial pound of flesh.

[Former_Fiend]

What can I say? People enjoy tsundere. XD

 

There really is no accounting for taste, I suppose.

[leaguer of one]

The problem with this is on the metalevel.

 

In the game- the primary story, the one most of your consumerbase is going to experience, the one the bulk of your budget is going into, you present one set of circumstances.

 

In a shoddy, hastily written prequel novel that you don't have the time or budget to give a proper editing cycle towards, you present a completely incompatible set of circumstances. 

 

You then choose the latter as your official canon.

 

Loghain now looks like either a madman or an idiot ranting about things he has no knowledge of as if he has first hand knowledge of them. I suppose this isn't much of a problem if you hate Loghain as a good bit of the fandom do, but for his fans, this is an issue.

 

On top of that, Alistair's whole personal quest; his finding of his "mother's" locket, his meeting of his sister and finding closure there, all of that becomes completely meaningless.

 

And what's the gain? Alistair's mother is a poorly written character who he has a good chance of never meeting? How does this enhance the story?

His personal quest was never finding the locket.  Alot of thing Loghain said about other people were just  assumption and personal feelings. And how would look crazy saying thing that he thought were true?

 

Him meeting his sister is not really pointless because it was about him questioning what a family really is and if he did need it. It was never really about him finding his real family.

 

All this really come down to is that you hate Fionra and you don't want Alistair to be her mother because you hate her.

[Former_Fiend]

His personal quest was never finding the locket.  Alot of thing Loghain said about other people were just  assumption and personal feelings. And how would look crazy saying thing that he thought were true?

 

Him meeting his sister is not really pointless because it was about him question what a family really is and if he did need it. It was never really about him finding his real family.

 

All this really come down to is that you hate Fionra and you don't want Alistair to be her mother because you hate her.

 

Me hating Fiona is incidental. This is about the story not making any goddamn sense. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Honestly, I get the feeling that Alistair was suppose to be the son of some random servant (becase DAO nor any other game ever hints Alistair being anything but the son of a servant) but then around the time Bioware started writing Dragon Age: The Calling, they decided to change that but it was too late to go back and change all the content (Story and voice acting) included in DAO so they just rolled with it which end up confusing some people (including me) to believe that their were two different kids.

[Former_Fiend]

And another thing; Loghain was not speaking about things second hand or making assumptions. He didn't say "Well the way I heard it was" or "If I had to guess, I'd say". He speaks in a very "This is how it was" manner. As if he was there, as if he witnessed the events, as if he was consulted on them.

 

You can try and rationalize it away by saying that he's now retroactively speaking in assumptions, but as written in Origins, he wasn't. 

[leaguer of one]

Me hating Fiona is incidental. This is about the story not making any goddamn sense. 

Well going by the calling Maric never wanted him to not know who his father is. Fiona asked him lie to Alistair about his real mother and tell him his mother was human and dead. It comes down to wanting to protect Alistair based on treatment of elf-bloods.

[leaguer of one]

And another thing; Loghain was not speaking about things second hand or making assumptions. He didn't say "Well the way I heard it was" or "If I had to guess, I'd say". He speaks in a very "This is how it was" manner. As if he was there, as if he witnessed the events, as if he was consulted on them.

 

You can try and rationalize it away by saying that he's now retroactively speaking in assumptions, but as written in Origins, he wasn't. 

He only knew about things Meric told him with Alistair. So it's a case he just saying what he thinks is true. The only people who have first had knowledge would be Meric and Alistair's mother.

[Former_Fiend]

Well going by the calling Maric never wanted him to not know who his father is. Fiona asked him lie to Alistair about his real mother and tell him his mother was human and dead. It comes down to wanting to protect Alistair based on treatment of elf-bloods.

 

Again, at least one of them really dropped the ball, and in my opinion, they dropped the ball on the bigger issue.

 

Alistair knowing he's elfblooded affects his own perception of himself. Alistair knowing he's the king's son affects the future of a nation.

 

 

I, for one, am generally not fond of tsundere, but I generally ship just about anything you throw at me.

I really enjoyed the books though, one reason being that it gives you more insight on the characters. Knowing more about Duncan and Cailan, you grow a greater attachment to them, which makes it all the more tragic when they die, IMO. Only problem being that you know stuff your Warden doesn't, which makes it harder to make decisions about Loghain and the Architect since you have more knowledge than your Warden does on that matter.

I can sort of see how Maric fell for Fiona. I think it was sort of a mutual understanding of suffering, and how they got to know each other through what they saw in the Fade, among other things.

Katriel and Maric will always be my OTP, though.

 

I like Asunder and The Masked Empire(I complain about it, but I enjoyed it), but the Calling was terrible. Duncan was one of the few enjoyable parts, and I liked Loghain's few moments in it, but I hated Maric, I hated Fiona, and I found the other wardens to be highly inconsistent and interchangeable. 

 

And I can tell you right now that if anyone ever treated me the way Fiona treated Maric, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. So what you see there, that's something I just can't see.

 

As for the Stolen Throne, I still haven't read that one and I don't intend to. Nothing I've been told about it makes me interested. 

[DinkyD]

Eamon cared for Alistair, and Alistair was basically one of the servants, so I doubt that the servants would treat him any differently. It sounds like the other boys in the Chantry treated him as a friend/like the rest of them. The Mother their was just a ******.

And Maric loved Alistair. the idea of having Alistair taken away killed him. Duncan would check on Alistair occasionally and then go see Maric and tell him how he was doing because Maric wanted to know. Maric did not treat him like dirt or hate him in any way.

Loghain probably only hates Alistair because he loved Rowan. Probably more than he ever loved his own wife.

 

 

He specifically says the boys in the chantry either ignored him for his bastard status, or thought he “put on airs” and so presumably weren't kind to him.

 

You learn little of his time at Eamon's – other than Isolde made him very unwelcome and he slept in the stables. The last time Ban Teagon saw him he was covered in mud. Possible mixture of neglect and in addition wilful hostility from Isolde. You don't get the impression he was happy, just grateful.

 

Yet, and here is my point, despite this unhappy backround, Duncan and Maric were keeping an eye on him? Well they did a really bad job, Duncan only turning up at the last minute after Alistair had been desperately delaying his vows - to save him from becoming a drug addicted templar at the age of 20. Dramatic timing certainly.

 

And sorry about your recruitment Alistair, it wasn't Duncan taking an interest in you for you - just something else that happened to you because of your parentage. Yes, Duncan knew who you were all along.

 

It's either just not convincing or cheapens the narrative in Origins imho.

 

[Former_Fiend]

He only knew about things Meric told him with Alistair. So it's a case he just saying what he thinks is true. The only people who have first had knowledge would be Meric and Alistair's mother.

 

As written, his dialogue does not give the impression that it is meant to come off as an assumption or a second hand source. It sounds as if he is speaking from first hand knowledge.

 

Whatever retcon came later(and the book was written after the game was, though it came out first), the intention when that dialogue was written was for Loghain to know what the f*ck he was talking about. That's the only way the lines as written and spoken make sense. 

[leaguer of one]

 

As written, his dialogue does not give the impression that it is meant to come off as an assumption or a second hand source. It sounds as if he is speaking from first hand knowledge.

 

Whatever retcon came later(and the book was written after the game was, though it came out first), the intention when that dialogue was written was for Loghain to know what the f*ck he was talking about. That's the only way the lines as written and spoken make sense. 

Again, first hand Knowledge would only be with  Meric and Alistairs mother. He just saying what he thinks is true. You thinking what he says is true is an assumption. If a person is say what they think is 100% they give the feeling that what they are saying is true.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

 

And sorry about your recruitment Alistair, it wasn't Duncan taking an interest in you for you - just something else that happened to you because of your parentage. Yes, Duncan knew who you were all along.

.

 

Yes, this is one other thing that disturbs me. Duncan didn't show interest in Alistair because he was good or anything but simply because he was Fiona's kid. Makes Alistair look even more incompetent and bad as a character.

[Former_Fiend]

Again, first hand Knowledge would only be with  Meric and Alistairs mother. He just saying what he thinks is true. You thinking what he says is true is an assumption. If a person is say what they think is 100% they give the feeling that what they are saying is true.

 

Alright, you're either not understanding me or being purposefully obtuse on the subject.

 

What I mean is that the person who wrote down the lines that Simon Templeman read and the person directing Simon Templeman when he read them intended for Loghain to have first hand knowledge of the subject; they intended for him to have been there when Maric was making decisions regarding what to do with Alistair and to have been consulted on it. 

 

Do I know this as a matter of fact? No. But I know how writing works; and what Loghain says in Origins is not what you would have a character say if you mean for them to be speaking about something second hand and making assumptions. It has the tone and diction of a character who is speaking with first hand knowledge. 

[leaguer of one]

He specifically says the boys in the chantry either ignored him for his bastard status, or thought he “put on airs” and so presumably weren't kind to him.

 

You learn little of his time at Eamon's – other than Isolde made him very unwelcome and he slept in the stables. The last time Ban Teagon saw him he was covered in mud. Possible mixture of neglect and in addition wilful hostility from Isolde. You don't get the impression he was happy, just grateful.

 

Yet, and here is my point, despite this unhappy backround, Duncan and Maric were keeping an eye on him? Well they did a really bad job, Duncan only turning up at the last minute after Alistair had been desperately delaying his vows - to save him from becoming a drug addicted templar at the age of 20. Dramatic timing certainly.

 

And sorry about your recruitment Alistair, it wasn't Duncan taking an interest in you for you - just something else that happened to you because of your parentage. Yes, Duncan knew who you were all along.

 

It's either just not convincing or cheapens the narrative in Origins imho.

Maric was gone for years and Duncan did not let him in the front line of the war because he knew Alistairs back ground. And you can't blame Eamon for Isolde's actions. He was sent to the templers because they felt it was easier for his sake to live in the stable under Isolde's spite.

[leaguer of one]

Yes, this is one other thing that disturbs me. Duncan didn't show interest in Alistair because he was good or anything but simply because he was Fiona's kid. Makes Alistair look even more incompetent and bad as a character.

How? He never was actually incompatant and he had deep and stable character growth in Origin's. This does not effect his character one way or the other. This does not change who Alistair is. What makes a good character is how they act and develop not how others treat them.

[leaguer of one]

Ah. Couldn't really remember what he said about the Chantry boys.

Well, Duncan could only check in on Alistair from time to time, and it isn't like he ever saw him in person. He probably was filled in by someone else, so they easily could have lied and said everything was fine. Then after Maric died it wasn't as though Duncan could pull Alistair out of whatever trouble he was in without making him a Warden. When the Blight came, that gave him a reason.

I do think Duncan cared for Alistair, but I also think it was a dumb move to invoke the Rite of Conscription. I guess it could be seen two ways: he could have died during the Blight, or have a chance living as a Warden. Personally, I think Fiona would be pretty ticked to find out Duncan conscripted her son.

But yeah, I'm not really trying to argue anything here. Just felt like adding my two cents.

And she would rather him be a templer? You don't think it would be dark irony?

[Former_Fiend]

As a point, Duncan had nothing to do with the decision to keep Alistair out of the fighting; that was Cailen's call. Duncan didn't do anything to argue the point, but Duncan was making a point of not antagonizing anyone at Ostagar. Besides, both Alistair and the PC were fresh recruits; their inexperience is enough reason to keep them out of the fighting. 

 

Does make me wonder if Cailen knew, though.