937 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Alright, you're either not understanding me or being purposefully obtuse on the subject.

 

What I mean is that the person who wrote down the lines that Simon Templeman read and the person directing Simon Templeman when he read them intended for Loghain to have first hand knowledge of the subject; they intended for him to have been there when Maric was making decisions regarding what to do with Alistair and to have been consulted on it. 

 

Do I know this as a matter of fact? No. But I know how writing works; and what Loghain says in Origins is not what you would have a character say if you mean for them to be speaking about something second hand and making assumptions. It has the tone and diction of a character who is speaking with first hand knowledge. 

What you feel what he  intended with those line is just your assumption. Only the father and mother would even have first hand knowledge. Loghian never even stated he was there when Alistair was born to say he saw him pop out from the woman.  His is just say what Meric told him. WHAT YOU ARE SAY IS JUST AN ASSUMPTION.

[leaguer of one]

Duncan wouldn't have been the one to make him a templar, though. And Alistair wouldn't have had as huge a risk of dying if he had become a templar. I think Fiona would rather choose the option that gives him the better chance of survival.

During a blight everyone with fighting experience would fight. Everyone has slim chances of surviving. In fact Alistair had a higher chance of surviving long by becoming a warden.

[leaguer of one]

As a point, Duncan had nothing to do with the decision to keep Alistair out of the fighting; that was Cailen's call. Duncan didn't do anything to argue the point, but Duncan was making a point of not antagonizing anyone at Ostagar. Besides, both Alistair and the PC were fresh recruits; their inexperience is enough reason to keep them out of the fighting. 

 

Does make me wonder if Cailen knew, though.

That's not what Alistair said.

[Former_Fiend]

What you feel what he  intended with those line is just your assumption. Only the father and mother would even have first hand knowledge. Loghian never even stated he was there when Alistair was born to say he saw him pop out from the woman.  His is just say what Meric told him. WHAT YOU ARE SAY IS JUST AN ASSUMPTION.

 

It is a logical deduction.

 

And if you really can't imagine how someone else could have first hand knowledge of the events, then you really have no imagination.

[Former_Fiend]

That's not what Alistair said.

 

What Alistair said is irrelevant when we see first hand Cailen giving the order to have Alistair and the PC go light the beacon instead of fighting in the front lines. 

 

Alistair also doesn't have telepathy; he may assume his heritage is part of Duncan's reasoning, but he can't know that. It's just an assumption.

[leaguer of one]

It is a logical deduction.

 

And if you really can't imagine how someone else could have first hand knowledge of the events, then you really have no imagination.

Unless they literally watching the woman give birth or see the baby second after birth alive and crying  coming from the same room the mother was in they would not have first hand knowledge of who is really the mother. They are only going to know what they are told.

[Former_Fiend]

Unless they literally watching the woman give birth or see the baby second after birth alive and crying  coming from the same room the mother was in they would not have first hand knowledge of who is really the mother. They are only going to know what they are told.

 

King comes to his advisors with a newborn baby. Baby's his bastard. Mom's split. King wants to raise him as his own. King's got a queen and a son already. Acknowledged bastard creates problems there. Advisors talk to him at length about what to do, and convince him to have the kid raised by someone else, someone he trusts.

 

Years later, one of those advisors talks to one of the bastard's friends on the subject and tells them this. That would be first hand knowledge. 

[leaguer of one]

 

What Alistair said is irrelevant when we see first hand Cailen giving the order to have Alistair and the PC go light the beacon instead of fighting in the front lines. 

 

Alistair also doesn't have telepathy; he may assume his heritage is part of Duncan's reasoning, but he can't know that. It's just an assumption.

And Duncan could of argue against it. He may of even ask Cailan to make that order on the side.

[Morroian]

Well I'm not surprised but I am disappointed.

 

Reminds me of why I stopped reading fantasy fiction years ago – well written and convincing characters in the first instance that when time goes on become so beloved of their writers that they can have nothing in anyway commonplace or dull about them. Can't have a parent that's just a servant, far to modest, lets add X,Y and Z.....and so characters become less..authentic feeling I suppose.

 

Dragon Age seemed to avoid that kind of writing and got me interested in the genre again. Shame. Sort of losing interest now.

 

Good thing this all happens in side projects not the games so you can safely ignore it if you want.

 

Also just in general re this thread Alistair being half elf was strongly implied when DAO and The Calling were released so why it should prompt this response now is somewhat baffling.  

[Former_Fiend]

And Duncan could of argue against it. He may of even ask Cailan to make that order on the side.

 

As I pointed out, Duncan was going out of his way not to overstep his bounds or antagonize anyone, especially the king.

[leaguer of one]

King comes to his advisors with a newborn baby. Baby's his bastard. Mom's split. King wants to raise him as his own. King's got a queen and a son already. Acknowledged bastard creates problems there. Advisors talk to him at length about what to do, and convince him to have the kid raised by someone else, someone he trusts.

 

Years later, one of those advisors talks to one of the bastard's friends on the subject and tells them this. That would be first hand knowledge. 

That mean he only know what he is told. That is not first hand knowledge. First hand knowledge means they seen it for themselves. An example of first hand knowledge would be how the warden found out how darkspawn are born.

 

http://definitions.u...hand-knowledge/

 

"Firsthand knowledge refers to something which the witness actually saw or heard, as distinguished from something he learned from some other person or source. It is also a knowledge that is gained through firsthand observation or experience, as distinguished from a belief based on what someone else has said. The federal rules of evidence requires lay witnesses to have personal knowledge of the matters they testify about. It is an affidavit that is based on personal knowledge, unless the affiant makes clear that a statement relies on “information and belief”."

 

That's not how Loghain learnt of Alistair.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

How? He never was actually incompatant and he had deep and stable character growth in Origin's. This does not effect his character one way or the other. This does not change who Alistair is. What makes a good character is how they act and develop not how others treat them.

His incompetent because he had nothing going for him before he became a Grey Warden.. I liked to believe that Duncan would have chosen him because he was a good swordsman or saw potential in the boy. Instead it's just that he knows the mother so he was biased towards Alistair. It's bad for his character because it makes it look like Alistair needs help in everything to get anything done.

[leaguer of one]

True that all chances are slim, but I highly doubt the latter. First you have the danger of the darkspawn, and then the potential fatality of the Joining. I'm gonna say becoming a Warden would be more dangerous.

More dangerous then risking blight sickness on the front line. She already know her blood has a high chance of accepting the taint, why would she not see Alistair has a high chance do to this?

[leaguer of one]

His incompetent because he had nothing going for him before he became a Grey Warden.. I liked to believe that Duncan would have chosen him because he was a good swordsman or saw potential in the boy. Instead it's just that he knows the mother so he was biased towards Alistair. It's bad for his character because it makes it look like Alistair needs help in everything to get anything done.

That make no difference. Lore wise he was never the best fighter of the templers on hand ether. And even then he become way better of a fighter anyway. So the point is baseless.

[Grieving Natashina]

Good thing this all happens in side projects not the games so you can safely ignore it if you want.

 

Also just in general re this thread Alistair being half elf was strongly implied when DAO and The Calling were released so why it should prompt this response now is somewhat baffling.  

I was thinking much the same thing.  The EU typically is easily ignored.  I did it with the stupid Anders short story (gods, that was terrible and it made no sense,) so I don't know why folks are refusing to let this one go. 

[Former_Fiend]

I've got a headache and a two year old to deal with, so I am done with this thread. 

 

Congratulations. You've got your crappy story and your horrible character and you've ruined Alistair. You've won. Hurrah.

 

I'm done.

[DinkyD]

How? He never was actually incompatant and he had deep and stable character growth in Origin's. This does not effect his character one way or the other. This does not change who Alistair is. What makes a good character is how they act and develop not how others treat them.

No it doesn't change who Alistair is, but it changes the way we are meant to view those two characters -  Duncan and Alistair -  from the impression we get in Origins. No longer can we think that Alistair as a stranger to him, whom he recruited out of perceived potential or perhaps, so he could escape his fate after seeing how unhappy he was. 

 

I think its a pity from Alistair's perspective, that the thing Alistair feels he is able to personally take pride in – being recruited into the wardens – turns out to be a lie. That's sad for someone trying so much to find his place in the world. And so much was made out of just how much the wardens meant to him. So I now feel sorry for him because he's under an illusion.

[Morroian]

Yes, this is one other thing that disturbs me. Duncan didn't show interest in Alistair because he was good or anything but simply because he was Fiona's kid. Makes Alistair look even more incompetent and bad as a character.

 

Alistair was portrayed as incompetent and bad, at least until you harden him and arguably after that given the Loghain issue. 

[Hazegurl]

Wrong...http://dragonage.wik...Connor_is_alive

 

He only acts strange if the demon is still alive. He does not even get to the circle if the demon is still alive.

http://dragonage.wik.../Connor_Guerrin

 

Same wiki I got my info from. Either way, I kill the kid instead of metagaming an outcome. None of it takes away from the fact that any warden who opts to trek to the circle is taking a big gamble with everyone's lives and only gets lucky if it works out.

[leaguer of one]

That is untrue. There is no evidence that suggests the ability to survive the Joining is hereditary.

*Points to Architect.

 

He make it point that serving the joining is based on what's in the blood and that Hereditary. In fact the Amell have a history of family member's who became wardens from  Carver/Bethany Hawke to the Amell mage in origin's.