937 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

No it doesn't change who Alistair is, but it changes the way we are meant to view those two characters -  Duncan and Alistair -  from the impression we get in Origins. No longer can we think that Alistair as a stranger to him, whom he recruited out of perceived potential or perhaps, so he could escape his fate after seeing how unhappy he was. 

 

I think its a pity from Alistair's perspective, that the thing Alistair feels he is able to personally take pride in – being recruited into the wardens – turns out to be a lie. That's sad for someone trying so much to find his place in the world. And so much was made out of just how much the wardens meant to him. So I now feel sorry for him because he's under an illusion.

.. a stranger? Alistair looked up to him like a father and some how your say the player was to precede their relationship as two strangers? Please, nothing has changed.

 Hell, based on what he did in Origin's why would not effect him.At

 

 This point any issue on why Alistair became warden is just an issue of pride.

[leaguer of one]

http://dragonage.wik.../Connor_Guerrin

 

Same wiki I got my info from. Either way, I kill the kid instead of metagaming an outcome. None of it takes away from the fact that any warden who opts to trek to the circle is taking a big gamble with everyone's lives and only gets lucky if it works out.

My source goes over the glitches that happen with the epilogue and what is shown on the slide. My source is correct. That statement about Conner acting strange with his mother alive is a glitch.

[Reaverwind]

Alistair was portrayed as incompetent and bad, at least until you harden him and arguably after that given the Loghain issue. 

 

Alistair was naive and inexperienced - not incompetent. He's good as a warden, and does have the potential to become a decent leader once he gains some experience, and more importantly, gains some confidence. 

[Morroian]

Do I know this as a matter of fact? No. But I know how writing works; and what Loghain says in Origins is not what you would have a character say if you mean for them to be speaking about something second hand and making assumptions. It has the tone and diction of a character who is speaking with first hand knowledge. 

 

But thats the way Loghain is portrayed, as self righteous and certain he is right about everything. He even committed regicide because of it.

[Hazegurl]

Thank you very much for quoting the book directly, because now I can say that his parents BOTH missed the mark on this one. Fiona didn't want him to be subjected to prejudice as an elf, Maric didn't want him to be subjected to the politics and struggles of royalty. So instead he was strung along like a dog on a leash, made to sleep in stables and kennels like an animal (just like many elves are), kept out of sight enough that he wouldn't step on more important people's toes but still kept close enough that Eamon could have a spare to the throne if anything happened to Cailan (which is exactly what happened). He had his life dictated by the decisions of other people (Isolde, Eamon, the Revered Mother, etc) who constantly looked down on him for his common blood, but also wanted to use him for his noble blood...

 

Yeah, they totally spared him from the downside of their legacies by passing him off to get raised by other people who knew of it.    

And that is why my female Mage hardens Alistair, ditches Red Cliffe, leave connor to be possessed/kill him, puts Alistair on the throne, make him bang Morrigan (to just say his bloodline continues cause nobles like that stuff),  Keeps Anora locked up, becomes his mistress, and Chancellor. Hearing him speak about Eamon with affection after knowing how he treated him was fcked up. It's no wonder he was so attached to Duncan,

[GVulture]

Cool beans. Now... didn't someone say at one point that Maric has a third child? Or am I imagining this?

Personally, I think it might be Morrigan. Because possible sexy alone times with Flemeth and Maric during TST and we don't know Morrigan's age other than "older than Alistair".

 

Of course, I do love that theory so much because of the wonderful Arthur/Morgana spin it gives the Dark Ritual.

[leaguer of one]

"Those who survive... will become immune to the taint, as the Grey Wardens are. This is an immunity they would pass on to their offspring (The Calling, p 225)."

 

This is what would happen if the entire world were tainted. However, it is impossible for two Grey Wardens to have a child together (Gaider states this in an interview). Therefore, these people wouldn't be like Wardens. They'd be a new sort of being altogether. The same principles cannot be applied to mankind as they are now.

That's if all of man kind is tainted. That does not mean the immunity is not hereditary. It's clearly is but to passing you have to have a child when you are not tainted. That still means it hereditary. Just look at the Amell's for that point. Also, warden can have children with each other it's just super rare.

[leaguer of one]

Cool beans. Now... didn't someone say at one point that Maric has a third child? Or am I imagining this?

Personally, I think it might be Morrigan. Because possible sexy alone times with Flemeth and Maric during TST and we don't know Morrigan's age other than "older than Alistair".

 

Of course, I do love that theory so much because of the wonderful Arthur/Morgana spin it gives the Dark Ritual.

Yep, that the theory. Young Maric did meet Flemith around 30 years from the 5th blight. Morrigan is close to around 30 in da:o.

[leaguer of one]

His father was willingly killed by Orlesians so that he could save Maric. He watched his mother get dragged away and then raped and killed. The Orlesian women his friend fell in love with betrayed them and cost them the lives of many good men.

It's not because Loghain thinks he's right about everything. It's because he can't trust Orlesians anymore.

He kinda does have a self righteous attitude but it's because he feels he has to not because he wants to. He's an example of a person who become 100% general then a person. His distrust of orlisans and his ready to do anything for victory attitude is his main character drive.

[Morroian]

His father was willingly killed by Orlesians so that he could save Maric. He watched his mother get dragged away and then raped and killed. The Orlesian women his friend fell in love with betrayed them and cost them the lives of many good men.

It's not because Loghain thinks he's right about everything. It's because he can't trust Orlesians anymore.

 

He is absolute in his certainty about the blight.

[leaguer of one]

He is absolute in his certainty about the blight.

But not that the wardens are needed to end it which is the issue. No matter what if he got his way everything would be doomed to fail.

[DinkyD]

.. a stranger? Alistair looked up to him like a father and some how your say the player was to precede their relationship as two strangers? Please, nothing has changed.

 Hell, based on what he did in Origin's why would not effect him.

 

Excuse me, when I say we, I mean us as players, not our player characters. 

 

In Origins, we are led to believe Duncan does not know Alistair's identity when he recruites him and until that moment Alistair is a stranger to him as he is to Alistair. After he's recruited Alistair begins to look up to Duncan as a surrogate father.

 

But now we learn that Duncan knows who Alistair is all along, before he is recruited, and has being keeping an eye on him for years. Therefore Duncan's motives must be viewed (by us the players) differently. But not by Alistair, who remains unaware.

[leaguer of one]

Excuse me, when I say we, I mean us as players, not our player characters. 

 

In Origins, we are led to believe Duncan does not know Alistair's identity when he recruites him and until that moment Alistair is a stranger to him as he is to Alistair. After he's recruited Alistair begins to look up to Duncan as a surrogate father.

 

But now we learn that Duncan knows who Alistair is all along, before he is recruited, and has being keeping an eye on him for years. Therefore Duncan's motives must be viewed (by us the players) differently. But not by Alistair, who remains unaware.

Even on a player level it's show that they were close and Alistair saw him as a father. We are never lead to believe anything on why Duncan recruited Alistair and why. Just that he did. And it never ever effects the player and pc relationship with Alistair, not in one way.

 

It matters not why or how, it had no effect on Alistair as a character with what he does and grows as a character.

It shift Duncan s motives alone and in the end it still does not matter.

[Omikuji]

Even with the reveal of his parents and blood line or whatever... it doesn't change who Alister is as a character does it? He's still a dorky warden who didn't know his parents and grew up having to keep his relationship to the kings line a secret. It doesn't change how he would act or his outlook on life, he's always been Alister, he's not defined by this sudden reveal of being elf blooded.

 

He is not defined by this, he is either the ruler of a kingdom put into the place because he was hardened/convinced by the warden or wandered off to drink himself into a hole. 

[leaguer of one]

Even with the reveal of his parents and blood line or whatever... it doesn't change who Alister is as a character does it? He's still a dorky warden who didn't know his parents and grew up having to keep his relationship to the kings line a secret. It doesn't change how he would act or his outlook on life, he's always been Alister, he's not defined by this sudden reveal of being elf blooded.

 

He is not defined by this, he is either the ruler of a kingdom put into the place because he was hardened/convinced by the warden or wandered off to drink himself into a hole. 

Funny how people complaining does not get this.

[Hazegurl]

My source goes over the glitches that happen with the epilogue and what is shown on the slide. My source is correct. That statement about Conner acting strange with his mother alive is a glitch.

It's the SAME source.

 

Bug! This slide does not appear if Arl Eamon remains in Denerim.

 

This is the only listed bug for Connor's epilogue. The other known bug is that Isolde dies even if you use the Magi and that is only a codex bug, not an epilogue one.  Eamon mentions Connor acting strangely if Isolde is alive.

http://forum.bioware...nor-and-isolde/

http://dragonage.wik.../Connor_Guerrin

http://dragonage.wik...logue_(Origins)

 

But overall your point means nothing as the outcome doesn't take away from the fact that you lucked out and nothing more.

[leaguer of one]

It's the SAME source.

 

Bug! This slide does not appear if Arl Eamon remains in Denerim.

 

This is the only listed bug for Connor's epilogue. The other known bug is that Isolde dies even if you use the Magi and that is only a codex bug, not an epilogue one.  Eamon mentions Connor acting strangely if Isolde is alive.

http://forum.bioware...nor-and-isolde/

http://dragonage.wik.../Connor_Guerrin

http://dragonage.wik...logue_(Origins)

 

But overall your point means nothing as the outcome doesn't take away from the fact that you lucked out and nothing more.

No, it's not the same source. Link to  originally a different page that does not even mention that glitch on epilogue page. Regardless, say that it's stated that Conner acts funny when his mom is still alive is a bug. You can't use a bug as a source of what happens.

 

http://dragonage.wik...logue_(Origins)

Eamon 

• If Alistair is king and the Hero is not the chancellor, Eamon will remain in the capital to help him. Teagan will take over the rule of Redcliffe for the time being.
• Otherwise, he will return to Redcliffe to rebuild.

• If both Connor and Isolde are alive, Eamon will say that Connor seems well enough, but Isolde refuses to speak of what happened and has said that she never wants to go back. Eamon thinks he may yet leave the land to Teagan.
• If Connor is dead, Isolde is determined to have another child, and Eamon is happy to oblige her.
• If Isolde is dead, Eamon knows he needs to send Connor to the Circle of Magi, and thinks perhaps his son will become a Grey Warden one day.
• If the PC made a deal with the demon that possessed Connor, Eamon will ask if the Hero has noticed anything strange about the lad, saying he seems quiet.

[DinkyD]

Even on a player level it's show that they were close and Alistair saw him as a father. We are never lead to believe anything on why Duncan recruited Alistair and why. Just that he did. And it never ever effects the player and pc relationship with Alistair, not in one way.

 

It matters not why or how, it had no effect on Alistair as a character with what he does and grows as a character.

It shift Duncan s motives alone and in the end it still does not matter.

 

How exactly does it show they were close? In that Duncan never told him the truth around his life and his eventual recruitment?

 

What opportunities did Duncan have to get to know Alistair prior to his recruitment anyway?

 

Alistair viewing him as a father figure didn't need further explanation.

 

And it hasn't changed my opinion of Alistair (who remains a favourite), just on how he's been treated mostly. And on the quality of the writing.

[leaguer of one]

How exactly does it show they were close? In that Duncan never told him the truth around his life and his eventual recruitment?

 

What opportunities did Duncan have to get to know Alistair prior to his recruitment anyway?

 

Alistair viewing him as a father figure didn't need further explanation.

 

And it hasn't changed my opinion of Alistair (who remains a favourite), just on how he's been treated mostly. And on the quality of the writing.

1. That really does not matter in how close they are. He already promised his father and mom he would not tell Alistair where he came from.

2.Alistair tells you all this when you ask him how it was like being a warden.

3.But it did get explained.

4.Who his mother is does not change any detail of treatment of Alistair. It means nothing if he's elf blooded and mage blooded. It;s just more drama. What effects him more is his dragon blood line.

[leaguer of one]

Aha! Finally found the source to prove you wrong! Not gonna bother to quote it. 

http://social.biowar...504&lf=8#455902

I'm outta here for now. And now I can sleep tonight. 

...That links to no where.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Alistairs blood continues to evolve :v

[Gorguz]

Do you know how many character's in da:o are given spical treatment past da:o? 

Sten is the Arishok. Lilianna is the left hand of the divine. Morrigan is an adviser of the empress of orlias. Wynne become the archemage of the cirlce.Zavern takes over the crows.

And I really don't like it. Why didn't they create new characters instead of making the ones already existing so op? How could Zevran take over the crows? He's not even the best crow,  by his admission. Leliana was considered a mad woman by the sisters she lived with. Wynne was supposed to die soon. Sten killed a whole family going berzerk, how could a qunari who cannot control himself become the Arishok? Fiona is the most Mary Sue character ever created, she's even worse than Tallis. Forcing her to be Alistair's mother is just an other t urd to a pile of BS.