937 réponses à ce sujet

[DinkyD]

I did. Still no source.  You're not getting what I'm asking for?

 

OK, original post below

 

Not when he was born, when he was conceived. He claims that his father "cheated" on the Arl's sister to conceive him. Cheated is a strange word to use if she's already dead.

 

Check yourself. It's when you talk to Alistair about being King in Arl Eamon's estate after talking with Anora. You have to select the “do you think you could you back out” option. He's unhardened in the game I've just reproduced it in to check but I've no idea if that matters. He speaks about Eamon being the brother of the woman his father cheated on and he still took him in.

[leaguer of one]

There's an Alistair M/M mod for DA:O right now. So I have no idea where this taunt is even coming from. 

That's not what I mean. DAI is being done in frostback engine used for Battlefeild 4. The engine was made too complex to be modded.

[DinkyD]

Interesting!

 

I think that is yet more proof that Fiona-as-Alistair's-mother wasn't intended until after DA:O was written, and at the time that DA:O was released Goldanna's mother was indeed still Alistair's mother. There is no other explanation for both Alistair implying that he was born while Rowan lived, and Loghain stating that Maric feared acknowledging Alistair would turn Rowan into a concubine in the eyes of the people. A woman who is long dead can't be the victim of infidelity.

 

Alistair being born after Rowan died is a retcon to allow him to be Fiona's son.

 

Bioware went full Lucas. You never go full Lucas!

 

that's how I see it.

 

If it had always meant to be the case, if they had even hinted at it in Origins, or even if Bioware had left themselves the wriggle room to at least make it plausible then it wouldn't bother me so much.

 

If they wanted to make Alistair's mother more interesting they could have come up with something -

 

But as you say, they went full Lucas. In order to tick every interesting box out there for her to be Orlesian, a mage, an elf, and a grey warden they basically had to re-write the original material.

[Gorguz]

Alistair already shown he is a good king.

Oh he goes around drinking with people, it's a good king. I wrote "proper" for a reason. Now you'll tell me that he probably gave free healtcare to everybody or something like that.That's why I need a lore section. Here it's full of fanboys who put characters and writers on a pedestal, making them intouchable. Fiona is a bad written character. The fact that Alistair is Fiona's son goes against origin and the calling, and THAT'S AN UNDENIABLE TRUTH, even if writers decide to rewrite settled stories and lore in cheap ways a professional wirter would never adopt, and even if Alistair is your husbando or you wish to romance Fiona or whatever other stupid reason.

[leaguer of one]

I'm aware of where it is.  But this doesn't say anything about what Maric himself thought.  I'm fairly positive that there was indeed something about keeping the baby in the dark ENTIRELY, not just about Fiona but about Maric as well.  But the more I think about it the more I want to say that Fiona says something about having her son raised by people outside the palace and never being told who his parents are, and that Maric ultimately agreed with her reasoning.  

The scene was done in Maric pov. It was entirely done based on what Maric thought.

[In Exile]

That's not what I mean. DAI is being done in frostback engine used for Battlefeild 4. The engine was made too complex to be modded.

 

But Alistair isn't a romance option in DA:I, and might not even be more than a cameo. Talking about an M/M romance with him seems to be a reference to DA:O. 

 

Generally, I don't get your objection to people making stuff up for themselves. 

[leaguer of one]

You do realize that they are talking about the reality of existing mods for previous DA games, right?  What in the world does whether or not Inquisition will be moddable have to do with what they were saying?  Hint:  NOTHING.  Do try to keep your arguments honest.  

They were not taking about  mods for previous da game. They were taking about in the event Fiona is in dai they would just mod out anything that stated Alistair is her son. No mod to do that is need in DAO or 2. My point is he can't just mod it out.

[leaguer of one]

But Alistair isn't a romance option in DA:I, and might not even be more than a cameo. Talking about an M/M romance with him seems to be a reference to DA:O. 

 

Generally, I don't get your objection to people making stuff up for themselves. 

I'm never was taking about the m/m romance. I was using it as an example.

[Silfren]

The scene was done in Maric pov. It was entirely done based on what Maric thought.

 

That's nice.  It doesn't address anything I wrote at all about the specifics of what was said.

[In Exile]

I'm never was taking about the m/m romance. I was using it as an example.

 

Fair enough, I just don't get why you don't like people headcanoning whatever. 

[Feybrad]

Funny Thread. Titled "This Debate is over" - starts a Debate of currently 27 Pages and counting.

[leaguer of one]

That's nice.  It doesn't address anything I wrote at all about the specifics of what was said.

His pov make it clear he does want her to stay with him. He just does not ask. Heck, Fiona brings it up and turns it down before he asks.

[leaguer of one]

Fair enough, I just don't get why you don't like people headcanoning whatever. 

It's not that I hate it. It's that people want to use it as a form of denial for something in the plot that happen they don't like.

[Reaverwind]

Next Alistair will be the first King to expand Fereldan territory and conquer the Free Marches through shrewd tactics and cunning diplomacy proving that he's the best statesman in the history of Thedas...

 

I'd even be willing to buy it if he were more Emhyr var Emreis and less *swooping is bad*.

 

We're much more likely to find an Emhyr in Orlais.

[Han Shot First]

It not that people hate it. It's that people want to use it as a form of denial for something in the plot that happen they don't like.

 

 

More like ignoring a retcon that doesn't make sense and which has created inconsistencies in the story. In this case, resorting to head canon is a bit like patching a flat tire.

[Silfren]

His pov make it clear he does want her to stay with him. He just does not ask. Heck, Fiona brings it up and turns it down before he asks.

 

I wasn't talking about Fiona staying with Maric, and neither were you, as the context of the quote from which the above stems will show.  We were talking about the question of what Fiona and Maric said/thought on whether her baby should be kept totally ignorant of one or both of his parents.  Stay on topic please.

[leaguer of one]

I wasn't talking about Fiona staying with Maric, and neither were you, as the context of the quote from which the above stems will show.  We were talking about the question of what Fiona and Maric said/thought on whether her baby should be kept totally ignorant of one or both of his parents.  Stay on topic please.

I already answered that. In the epilogue Fiona literally ask Maric not to let Alistair know his true mother and lie to him and Loghain about it. Their is not  questioning that she did not want Alistair to know about her.

[leaguer of one]

More like ignoring a retcon that doesn't make sense and which has created inconsistencies in the story. In this case, resorting to head canon is a bit like patching a flat tire.

You mean  does not make up with the lie most of the people in da think is true.

[Swoopdogg]

Someone explain in detail why a Mary Sue is automatically a bad/boring/whatever character

 

I like Allistair's character. Is he a bit sue-ish? Sure. So what? Why is that by nature a bad thing?

 

Seriously, I am actually having trouble understanding

[Clockwork_Wings]

...so who's Goldanna? The wetnurse's girl?

[DarkKnightHolmes]

...so who's Goldanna? The wetnurse's girl?

 

She's now some random woman that we wasted a whole side mission arguing with. Funny enough, I was just playing DAO an hour ago and was on this mission and I just kept thinking to myself that I can't believe I'm letting Alistair take abuse from some random crazy lady.

[Shadow Fox]

This thread's still going?

[Morroian]

Expect this piece of lore to get retconned as soon as some important writer wants to write a story which would necessitate it.

 

Neil Gaiman (A better writer than anyone on this site or anyone on the Bioware staff): "Continuity isn't actually something that I ever worry about. You use it where you need to, and you don't use it where you don't need to."

[leaguer of one]

Someone explain in detail why a Mary Sue is automatically a bad/boring/whatever character

 

I like Allistair's character. Is he a bit sue-ish? Sure. So what? Why is that by nature a bad thing?

 

Seriously, I am actually having trouble understanding

Because they don't deal with any real conflict or growth. And Alistair is not a mary sue.