937 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Alistair is by no means a Mary Sue. He has such clear and overpowering character flaws.

 

He's childish, petty, and a traitor. I'd hardly call him a Mary Sue.

[Clockwork_Wings]

She's now some random woman that we wasted a whole side mission arguing with. Funny enough, I was just playing DAO an hour ago and was on this mission and I just kept thinking to myself that I can't believe I'm letting Alistair take abuse from some random crazy lady.

The wetnurse's daughter makes some sense.  Perhaps Goldanna was not aware there were two babies, and when the wetnurse died (which she did, obviously), Alistair went to Eamon and the other baby went to an orphanage or the servant's quarters or some such. 

 

As for whether Maric cheated on Rowan, he had a child out of wedlock by (what in Fereldan is less than) a commoner, an elf and a mage, and not a suitable second wife.  Nobility would call that cheating enough whether Rowan was alive at the time or not.

 

What baffles me is why, after several people promised Fiona that Alistair would never know he was royal-blooded and warden-blooded, they told him he was Maric's child anyway.  Of course, Eamon may not have been privy to promising Fiona anything.

 

I read something that suggested Fiona might make a return, but can't remember what...

[leaguer of one]

 

 

What baffles me is why, after several people promised Fiona that Alistair would never know he was royal-blooded and warden-blooded, they told him he was Maric's child anyway.  Of course, Eamon may not have been privy to promising Fiona anything.

 

I read something that suggested Fiona might make a return, but can't remember what...

There was no promise he  would not know he had royal blood, it was only a promise he would not be connected to the political issues of royalty and not be in line to the thrown and not to let him know who his real mother is and that he is elf blooded.

[Deebo305]

I didn't even realize this was thing being debated? I read it accepted it and moved on. I suppose it affects me less because Alistair will always be my bro regardless

Oh and people are throwing out Mary sue around again as well eh? How nice for them *goes back to reading newspaper*

[GVulture]

Also, I would just like to say that if Alistair was "immune to the taint" he couldn't have been a Grey Warden. We know he is one in full because he can sense Darkspawn AND his... "tainted seed" is good enough for the Dark Ritual.

 

Though, I will admit... picturing Alistair at his Joining and downing the whole chalice of Darkspawn blood and looking confused as everyone's jaw drops because nothing happened.

 

"What? Do I have something on my face?"

[Xetykins]

Adding or confirming something obvious on a character people loves to hate ( however small and petty) always gets theirs knicker in an eternal twist. Which is understandable I suppose.

Honestly, as someone who likes Alistair, this confirmation didnt make him remotely "speshul". More like"oh sht, I made him king. What will happen when the populace find out. AND.. "Thank gawd he's really not connected to that goldanna hag"

As for that convo with alistair saying maric cheated on eamon's sister is an obvious error. Unless Rowan really was a maid, which makes goldanna (shiver) a royalty.

[Allan Schumacher]

This was in the raptr q&a session where every writer and most of the dev team were answering questions. They would not say anything like this unless everyone on the writing team agreed on the fact.

 

Their is no speculation left. At this point it's just denial.

 

Just as a note, the respondents were Mike Laidlaw, Mark Darrah, and Cameron Lee.

[Brass_Buckles]

My two cents, not having read the entire thread:

 

I already kind of had the impression Alistair was elf-blooded.  His sister is an elf, after all.  However, I don't think the devs actually directly said Fiona was Alistair's mother... anywhere, only that he is elf-blooded (which we knew because of his elven sister).  It's a logical assumption, sure, and I believe it's what was intended by the writers.  And yet, it is still not officially confirmed unless I missed something major in all of that Raptr info.  They confirmed only that he is elf-blooded, so even though Fiona is most likely his mother, assuming she definitely is, is leaping to conclusions.

 

I do think Fiona is Alistair's mother, yes, but Maric seemed to have a deep attraction for elves, and it may be that, post-Rowan and prior to (or after) Fiona, he found another elf to fall in love with.  Yes, he had several loves, but he did genuinely love them all, or believed he did.

[HiroVoid]

I already kind of had the impression Alistair was elf-blooded.  His sister is an elf, after all.

Wait.  What?  Did I miss something about Goldanna?

[Dermain]

Since people seem to believe that DAO was released before The Calling I went and researched it a bit.

 

The Calling, which introduces Fiona and Maric's relationship was released on October 13, 2009.

 

The release date of DAO was November 3, 2009. 

[DinkyD]

Adding or confirming something obvious on a character people loves to hate ( however small and petty) always gets theirs knicker in an eternal twist. Which is understandable I suppose.

Honestly, as someone who likes Alistair, this confirmation didnt make him remotely "speshul". More like"oh sht, I made him king. What will happen when the populace find out. AND.. "Thank gawd he's really not connected to that goldanna hag"

As for that convo with alistair saying maric cheated on eamon's sister is an obvious error. Unless Rowan really was a maid, which makes goldanna (shiver) a royalty.

 

No, that conversation is not an error, because its consistent with everything else in Origins. It was obviously intended at the time to be the truth.

 

And I don't hate Alistair, quite the opposite, I'm a total fan girl: I'd probably be hanging out in his gush thread if pretty much everything to be said hadn't already been said in its 4,000 pages combined. That's why I care about the character's background being rewritten

 

And I do think it makes him “special” because it appeals to that fan base that all fantasy settings have who always think that elves are the most interesting race. That elves are cool just because they're elves you know.

[Xetykins]

Still does not explain where fiona's child is tho if people thinks alistair is not the one. On the books he only had 2. With rowan and fiona.

And being half elf is indeed cool. But not when its sitting on the throne. So you see why this info does not come as special to me.

[Dermain]

 

And I do think it makes him “special” because it appeals to that fan base that all fantasy settings have who always think that elves are the most interesting race. That elves are cool just because they're elves you know.

 

Which is why I am quite happy elves generally only excel at poverty in DA. Being an elf is generally a bad thing, and being a half-elf is just as bad. Hell, having elf blood is almost as bad (if not the same) as being a mage! The Dalish also aren't "special" because their entire time is spent trying to recreate the past which is a completely futile endeavor. 

 

If it somehow appeals to that fanbase then they do not understand the DA universe at all. 

 

Still does not explain where fiona's child is tho if people thinks alistair is not the one. On the books he only had 2. With rowan and fiona.

And being half elf is indeed cool. But not when its sitting on the throne. So you see why this info does not come as special to me.

 

Only if "cool" involves being dethroned for having elvish blood resulting in Alistair becoming a drunk...

[DinkyD]

Since people seem to believe that DAO was released before The Calling I went and researched it a bit.

 

The Calling, which introduces Fiona and Maric's relationship was released on October 13, 2009.

 

The release date of DAO was November 3, 2009. 

 

So are we to believe they released a game incompatible with a book or a book incompatible with the game?

 

Given Origins development time, I imagine that leaves plenty of time for the writer to change their mind about a character already written. But the voice actors were in their studios by then, and rather than just bite the bullet and sticking with the character as intended, the character is re-written anyway with minor changes in a book that just adds pointless glitz to a character that was fine as he was.

 

And, as I remember someone earlier in the thread posting, why on earth do they years later take the decision to canonise a tie-in book rather than their primary material? Given now that anyone playing the game after reading the wiki is going to ponder why events and dialogue in the game are now confusing?

[LilyasAvalon]

The World of Thedas needs to be redone then if this is true, doesn't it? Because it suggested the opposite, that Alistair birth date and Maric meeting Fiona are too far apart for Alistair to be Fiona's son (I can't remember which it is and I haven't got my book here with me)

 

EDIT:

 

9:10 Dragon:

 

King Maric allows the order of Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden after two centuries of exile.

 

Alistair, a future hero of the Fifth Blight, is born in Ferelden.

 

9:14 Dragon:

 

Underneath Fereldan, the intelligent darkspawn known as the Architect attempts to unearth and kill the remaining Old Gods and taint the entire surface world. His efforts are thwarted by King Maric and a band of Wardens.

 

This is apparently an error, isn't it? The wiki has all three events happening in 9:10

[DinkyD]

...

What baffles me is why, after several people promised Fiona that Alistair would never know he was royal-blooded and warden-blooded, they told him he was Maric's child anyway.  Of course, Eamon may not have been privy to promising Fiona anything.

 

It's one of the less baffling things actually.

 

I imagine Eamon was privy to nothing, because this traditionalist seems to have no concern for putting someone on the throne who had an elven mother.

[Mykel54]

I knew it, because the ending of the calling was pretty much hinting at the beginning of DAO....

 

Glad that Mr. elf-dragon-darkspawn blooded snowflake finally got his mum acknowledged.

[Herr Uhl]

Still does not explain where fiona's child is tho if people thinks alistair is not the one. On the books he only had 2. With rowan and fiona.

And being half elf is indeed cool. But not when its sitting on the throne. So you see why this info does not come as special to me.

 

Might have been lost at sea. But this is a hypothetical.

 

I just dislike it not because it is Mary Sueish, but because I enjoyed the idea of him just being a bastard sired on a wench. It is a bit too snowflakey for my tastes. The mary sueish ones here are Fiona and Maric if anything.

[DinkyD]

....

 

I just dislike it not because it is Mary Sueish, but because I enjoyed the idea of him just being a bastard sired on a wench. It is a bit too snowflakey for my tastes. The mary sueish ones here are Fiona and Maric if anything.

 

So did I  - the idea of being King's bastard sired on a servant. It added a particular poignancy to his background.

 

But no, he is actually the product of two people who cared about each other, and they both cared about him, and he didn't kill his mother being born and he wasn't a forgotten child at all.

 

Oh what's the use.

[Xetykins]

Might have been lost at sea. But this is a hypothetical.
 
I just dislike it not because it is Mary Sueish, but because I enjoyed the idea of him just being a bastard sired on a wench. It is a bit too snowflakey for my tastes. The mary sueish ones here are Fiona and Maric if anything.

I dont have a problem with him being born to a maid. Its probably a lot better knowing she died than knowing his mother is still alive but chosed to pretty much abandon him,for whatever reason. Thats far from snowflakish imho.

It maybe hypothetical, but still wouldnt ignore possibilities of the writers chucking in civil war because of this down the line.

[DinkyD]

9:10 Dragon:

 

King Maric allows the order of Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden after two centuries of exile.

 

Alistair, a future hero of the Fifth Blight, is born in Ferelden

 

King Maric suffers attack of amnesia and forgets the son he swore to Fiona to protect. Mental instability passed to son who spends the rest of his life confused about his age.

 

EDIT:

 

This is apparently an error, isn't it? The wiki has all three events happening in 9:10

 

The game is an error as well.

[Herr Uhl]

I dont have a problem with him being born to a maid. Its probably a lot better knowing she died than knowing his mother is still alive but chosed to pretty much abandon him,for whatever reason. Thats far from snowflakish imho.

It maybe hypothetical, but still wouldnt ignore possibilities of the writers chucking in civil war because of this down the line.

 

The snowflakeish bit is that he is the child of the only known Grey Warden to cure their own taint who then went on to become Grand Enchanter of the circle. Being a special snowflake doesn't mean that you're happy, it means that there are just too many things that are special about you. Being the child of a king and a grey warden (who cured her own taint), ok I can deal with that. Adding that the Grey Warden became the most influential mage in the circle and that the king had special dragon blood powers annoys me though.

 

And I very much doubt that there is going to be any civil wars based on this. That would require that Alistair is on the throne, which is far from a given, and that Fiona tells him that she is his mother, which seems unlikely.

[Gorguz]

The World of Thedas needs to be redone then if this is true, doesn't it? Because it suggested the opposite, that Alistair birth date and Maric meeting Fiona are too far apart for Alistair to be Fiona's son (I can't remember which it is and I haven't got my book here with me)

 

EDIT:

 

9:10 Dragon:

 

King Maric allows the order of Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden after two centuries of exile.

 

Alistair, a future hero of the Fifth Blight, is born in Ferelden.

 

9:14 Dragon:

 

Underneath Fereldan, the intelligent darkspawn known as the Architect attempts to unearth and kill the remaining Old Gods and taint the entire surface world. His efforts are thwarted by King Maric and a band of Wardens.

 

This is apparently an error, isn't it? The wiki has all three events happening in 9:10

 

I suspect that Alistair was meant to be one of three sons. The Calling (Marric secretly visit Redcliff without apparent reason just before going in the Deep Roads, when I read that I though that he wanted to see Alistair before the suicide mission, if you do not want to consider the dates), DA:O and World of Thedas seem to support that. I don't know why they wanted only a Theirin around, probably it has something to do with the special blood. The point is, it's possible to change settled things. But it must be done with coherence. It's difficult to change Alistair parenthood, they went to deep with that. But they wanted to do it anyway. The result is this incoherent BS.

[Bellanaris88]

The World of Thedas needs to be redone then if this is true, doesn't it? Because it suggested the opposite, that Alistair birth date and Maric meeting Fiona are too far apart for Alistair to be Fiona's son (I can't remember which it is and I haven't got my book here with me)

 

EDIT:

 

9:10 Dragon:

 

King Maric allows the order of Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden after two centuries of exile.

 

Alistair, a future hero of the Fifth Blight, is born in Ferelden.

 

9:14 Dragon:

 

Underneath Fereldan, the intelligent darkspawn known as the Architect attempts to unearth and kill the remaining Old Gods and taint the entire surface world. His efforts are thwarted by King Maric and a band of Wardens.

 

This is apparently an error, isn't it? The wiki has all three events happening in 9:10

 

 

Yes, that is an error, that was clarified by David Gaider on the old BSN, iirc. There were other errors aswell in the Calling about Cailan's age and the date of Rowans death. Apparently there were two versions of the book.

 

And I'm pretty sure, that DG mentioned in one of his serieses on game-development on tumblr, that the Goldanna-Quest with Alistair was a result of a lack of communication between the writers and the quest-designers. So are all the other remarks, about Maric cheating on Rowan, because he didn't. When he slept with Fiona and Alistair was born, Rowan was dead for 2 years.

[Reaverwind]

Yes, that is an error, that was clarified by David Gaider on the old BSN, iirc. There were other errors aswell in the Calling about Cailan's age and the date of Rowans death. Apparently there were two versions of the book.

 

And I'm pretty sure, that DG mentioned in one of his serieses on game-development on tumblr, that the Goldanna-Quest with Alistair was a result of a lack of communication between the writers and the quest-designers. So are all the other remarks, about Maric cheating on Rowan, because he didn't. When he slept with Fiona and Alistair was born, Rowan was dead for 2 years.

 

Ah. Not that it really matters - the end result is Alistair was the product of crappy foster care.