Link?
https://twitter.com/...585267336142848
Because I am of the opinion that Fiona is a terrible character. Anything that increases her already absurd presence in Dragon Age is equally terrible.
At this point it's clear it more that you want to be in denial it's Fiona then being ageist Alistair having a different mother then he was told.
Terrible in what way?
I don't know. They don't like tsundere's. They think she is a mary sue when she's not.
I suspect Fiona will be at the peace conference during the Prologue of Dragon Age: Inquisition, so this argument will likely be pointless anyway.
Here's hoping Alistair didn't choose that time to visit his dear old mum, eh?
..
Can't you just take it for what it is and move on? .......
Yes, well, I will eventually I suppose.
Just don't want Bioware to think I didn't notice.
From now on, I think I'll consider Bioware middling book publishers that do excellently told tie-in games with great gameplay but of dubious lore accuracy - games which are considered among the best in their genre. Perhaps that will help.
I suspect Fiona will be at the peace conference during the Prologue of Dragon Age: Inquisition, so this argument will likely be pointless anyway.
Yup, she'll be going in flames soon!
Because people don't like Fiona as a character for some reason.
No, that is a strawman. Of all the people who have argued against it in this thread I don't recall any who said they didn't like Fiona. I like Fiona as a character. I just don't like her as Alistair's mother.
The reason why people are opposed to it is because it renders the Goldanna quest in DA:O pointless, and because it creates inconsistencies in the story. Both Loghain and Alistair have dialogue implying that Alistair was born while Rowan still lived. That is impossible with Fiona as Alistair's mother, because Maric doesn't even meet Fiona until after Rowan was long dead.
And it does require mental gymnastics to explain away those inconsistencies.
No, that is a strawman. Of all the people who have argued against it in this thread I don't recall any who said they didn't like Fiona. I like Fiona as a character. I just don't like her as Alistair's mother.
The reason why people are opposed to it is because it renders the Goldanna quest in DA:O pointless, and because it creates inconsistencies in the story. Both Loghain and Alistair have dialogue implying that Alistair was born while Rowan still lived. That is impossible with Fiona as Alistair's mother, because Maric doesn't even meet Fiona until after Rowan was long dead.
And it does require mental gymnastics to explain away those inconsistencies.
Again, it does not make Goldanna's quest pointless. The quest is about Alistair finding out what a family really is and if he truly willing to find that, not who is his real family. The results of the quest ether has him see his companions and the wardens as his real family or that he is convince he does not need a family at all. And Loghain and Alistair are just say what they think is true. What they were told. They both don't have first hand knowledge of what happen with Alistair mom. Heck, Alistair may not even know when he was truly born. It easy to switch Alistair for a baby that die, even if the baby die 2 years from his birth.
Yes, well, I will eventually I suppose.
Just don't want Bioware to think I didn't notice.
From now on, I think I'll consider Bioware middling book publishers that do excellently told tie-in games with great gameplay but of dubious lore accuracy - games which are considered among the best in their genre. Perhaps that will help.
The lore is never made to be 100% correct on the actual event that happen. It would be like saying Mcbeth was a horrible man based on a play that was just used as popaganda to please the current king it was made for.
The lore is never made to be 100% correct on the actual event that happen. It would be like saying Mcbeth was a horrible man based on a play that was just used as popaganda to please the current king it was made for.
What I get from this revelation is that Bioware are primarily book publishers that also do games. If the games conflict with the books/comics then its the books that are cannonised. So the books are 100% lore accurate but we have to find out ourselves about the games. Bioware is famous for great games not great novels. It should learn something from that.
What I get from this revelation is that Bioware are primarily book publishers that also do games. If the games conflict with the books/comics then its the books that are cannonised. So the books are 100% lore accurate but we have to find out ourselves about the games. Bioware is famous for great games not great novels. It should learn something from that.
First hand statement and sights. 100% Accurate.
Second and third hand statement, chances to be wrong.
It's like that with anything.
Again, it does not make Goldanna's quest pointless. The quest is about Alistair finding out what a family really is and if he truly willing to find that, not who is his real family. The results of the quest ether has him see his companions and the wardens as his real family or that he is convince he does not need a family at all. And Loghain and Alistair are just say what they think is true. What they were told. They both don't have first hand knowledge of what happen with Alistair mom. Heck, Alistair may not even know when he was truly born. It easy to switch Alistair for a baby that die, even if the baby die 2 years from his birth.
Loghain had a conversation with Maric who presumably knew a thing or two about the child he helped create. Maric told Loghain that he didn't acknowledge Alistair as his son for fear of turning Rowan into a concubine in the eyes of the people of Ferelden. A woman who is long dead, cannot be a concubine. That dialogue implies that Alistair was born while Rowan still lived, which should rule out Fiona as his mother.
I can understand that people may simply prefer Fiona be Alistair's mother, because they find it more interesting. But to stubbornly refuse to admit that it creates inconsistencies with some of the dialogue in DA:O, is an example of burying your head in the sand. It does require mental gymanstics in order to explain away. You're reduced to finding an out-of-game explanation for the inconsistencies between The Calling, Bioware's Twitter canon, and Loghain's DA:O dialogue, not to mention the Goldanna quest line.
As for Alistair being 'easy' to switch as a baby...I'm not so sure. We're dealing with a quasi-medieval universe where babies aren't born in modern hospitals. They are most likely birthed by midwives at home, surrounded by relatives. For the commoners we aren't talking a large multi-room manse either, but rather a one or two room hovel. In order to pull a baby switcheroo you need a midwife that is in on the plot and able to both sneak in the replacement (Alistair) and sneak out the original baby, potentially past numerous witnesses. And you now either have to do something with the stolen infant or eliminate it. I won't go so far as to say that such a plan would be impossible, particularly in a universe where almost anything can be explained away by 'a wizard did it,' but it does seem to be a bit of a convoluted plot. And why switch babies at all? Why not simply raise Alistair as an orphan found ditched on the side of some road? No complicated plot necessary, and no one would be the wiser.
There is just so much that doesn't make sense at all once you make Fiona the mother, rather than that human serving girl from Denerim.
First hand statement and sights. 100% Accurate.
Second and third hand statement, chances to be wrong.
It's like that with anything.
Goldanna quest now didn't happen, according to Pogo88, on 11 Jul 2014 - 4:56 PM DG said it was a "mistake". Not compatible with The Calling. So yes, it's meaningless. You can ignore it safely.
And so, when the books conflict with the games, the books win. Nothing to do with narrative or first and second hand knowledge at all. The Calling is lore, Origins isn't. Simple as that.
EDIT: I'm not at all agreeing with this stance taken by Bioware, I disagree vehemently, just stating how it seems to be.
Modifié par DinkyD, 11 juillet 2014 - 10:20 .
Guest_Challenge Everything_*
...That links to no where.
...Crap. *checks again*
Edit: Well, the link's broken. This will have to do instead. However, judging by your behavior so far, you will likely not accept this as evidence, even though it's true: http://s15.zetaboard...opic/6943222/3/
No one is immune to the taint, and there is no evidence to support the joining being hereditary. The only evidence would suggest that it is in fact not hereditary.
Goldanna quest now didn't happen, according to Pogo88, on 11 Jul 2014 - 4:56 PM DG said it was a "mistake". Not compatible with The Calling. So yes, it's meaningless. You can ignore it safely.
And so, when the books conflict with the games, the books win. Nothing to do with narrative or first and second hand knowledge at all. The Calling is lore, Origins isn't. Simple as that.
EDIT: I'm not at all agreeing with this stance taken by Bioware, I disagree vehemently, just stating how it seems to be.
Again, it does not make Goldanna's quest pointless. The quest is about Alistair finding out what a family really is and if he truly willing to find that, not who is his real family. The results of the quest ether has him see his companions and the wardens as his real family or that he is convince he does not need a family at all. And Loghain and Alistair are just say what they think is true. What they were told. They both don't have first hand knowledge of what happen with Alistair mom. Heck, Alistair may not even know when he was truly born. It easy to switch Alistair for a baby that die, even if the baby die 2 years from his birth.
...Crap. *checks again*
Edit: Well, the link's broken. This will have to do instead. However, judging by your behavior so far, you will likely not accept this as evidence, even though it's true: http://s15.zetaboard...opic/6943222/3/
No one is immune to the taint, and there is no evidence to support the joining being hereditary. The only evidence would suggest that it is in fact not hereditary.
It is Hereditary. You confusing the issue of 2 wardens not making children with the concept of what hereditary means. It a person who can be resistant to the taint and can become a warden has children before they become a warden then that child has a high chance of becoming a warden. We already see in the lore that it happen, example the Amells. The fact that 2 people who are wardens can't have kids does not change that.
Yup, she'll be going in flames soon!
What'll you do if she doesn't?
Again, it does not make Goldanna's quest pointless. The quest is about Alistair finding out what a family really is and if he truly willing to find that, not who is his real family. The results of the quest ether has him see his companions and the wardens as his real family or that he is convince he does not need a family at all. And Loghain and Alistair are just say what they think is true. What they were told. They both don't have first hand knowledge of what happen with Alistair mom. Heck, Alistair may not even know when he was truly born. It easy to switch Alistair for a baby that die, even if the baby die 2 years from his birth.
I'm sorry Leaguer, Goldanna's quest did not happen if Pogo88's post is a true reflection of lore. Alistair can't learn anything from it because it did not happen. Otherwise i would agree with you (your assessment of its meaning is insightful). But it's still is incompatible with Fiona being Alistair's mother, because Goldanna can't think she has a bastard prince half sibling in that case. So that scene has to go.
Loghain had a conversation with Maric who presumably knew a thing or two about the child he helped create. Maric told Loghain that he didn't acknowledge Alistair as his son for fear of turning Rowan into a concubine in the eyes of the people of Ferelden. A woman who is long dead, cannot be a concubine. That dialogue implies that Alistair was born while Rowan still lived, which should rule out Fiona as his mother.
I can understand that people may simply prefer Fiona be Alistair's mother, because they find it more interesting. But to stubbornly refuse to admit that it creates inconsistencies with some of the dialogue in DA:O, is an example of burying your head in the sand. It does require mental gymanstics in order to explain away. You're reduced to finding an out-of-game explanation for the inconsistencies between The Calling, Bioware's Twitter canon, and Loghain's DA:O dialogue, not to mention the Goldanna quest line.
As for Alistair being 'easy' to switch as a baby...I'm not so sure. We're dealing with a quasi-medieval universe where babies aren't born in modern hospitals. They are most likely birthed by midwives at home, surrounded by relatives. For the commoners we aren't talking a large multi-room manse either, but rather a one or two room hovel. In order to pull a baby switcheroo you need a midwife that is in on the plot and able to both sneak in the replacement (Alistair) and sneak out the original baby, potentially past numerous witnesses. And you now either have to do something with the stolen infant or eliminate it. I won't go so far as to say that such a plan would be impossible, particularly in a universe where almost anything can be explained away by 'a wizard did it,' but it does seem to be a bit of a convoluted plot. And why switch babies at all? Why not simply raise Alistair as an orphan found ditched on the side of some road? No complicated plot necessary, and no one would be the wiser.
There is just so much that doesn't make sense at all once you make Fiona the mother, rather than that human serving girl from Denerim.
Again Loghain does nt have first hand knowledge of who Alistairs mother is. That means he did not see Alistair born or was their when he was born. That leaves reason of doubt because he is just going off what ever he was told by Maric and their is a non-zero chance that what Maric told him was a lie. Every second hand info has that chance. It does not matter what Loghain says. If their is no guarantee that what he is saying is what happen that we can't use what he says as 100% valid. The only way we can take what he says as 100% valid is if he was there when Alistair was born. That the issue with all second hand information. Why don't you get this.
And it not about preference. It about what is stated in the story so far. It's not hard to believe like you are trying to make it out to be.
And with midevil birth you are not considering the lack of info that is listed about birth for non nobles. Goldanna was not even in the same room her where her mom gave birth to the child much less the same place. He had it at redcliffe castle. Unless their is a person who is willing to tell Alistair the truth or wants to he won't know what really happen. Emoan can easily just pay people off or just tell people not to tell Alistair the truth. It not that hard of a concept to get. Even the mid wife can be made to hold the truth. It not hard to get people to do that.
I'm sorry Leaguer, Goldanna's quest did not happen if Pogo88's post is a true reflection of lore. Alistair can't learn anything from it because it did not happen. Otherwise i would agree with you (your assessment of its meaning is insightful). But it's still is incompatible with Fiona being Alistair's mother, because Goldanna can't think she has a bastard prince half sibling in that case. So that scene has to go.
It happen. and he did learn something for it. It mater and you are in denial. The entire point of the quest story was about insight. It does not matter if Goldanna is not his real family. That was the point.
Well, I guess that if they want to have Fiona be Alistair's Mum then that's ok, it's their story. 
I really wish that someone in the know would clarify the Goldana, cheating on Rowan situation though because I find the whole thing a bit confusing and convoluted and I don't like feeling confused about something that seems like it should be quite simple. Even if the real reason for the change is that they thought this plotline would be better, I'd still appreciate someone making something up for consistency's sake. Writers are good at making stuff up! 
I feel appealed more to him being a mother of a servant but oh well.
A servant WAS his mother. The fact that Fiona was his biological mother doesn't change the realities he was raised in or whom he believes his family to be. This revelation doesn't change anything about Alistar as a character in my opinion, He still grew up believing what he believed about his parentage and I don't see that changing unless they make this revelation tie into DA:I.
What'll you do if she doesn't?
What'll you do if she doesn't?
Sigh and move on. Thing is, I don't think she would have let fighting devolve this far is she was still around. To be honest, given the state of the Hinterlands, I feel like Adrian's at the reins, not Fiona.
Given that we can defeat the Mages and bring the Templar/Mage conflict to an end, it's likely to happen one way or another. Though I suppose we could be merciful and only make her Tranquil.
Given the state of the Veil right now, and the number of demons/spirits flying around, I don't think Tranquility would necessarily stick.
Given the state of the Veil right now, and the number of demons/spirits flying around, I don't think Tranquility would necessarily stick.
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