937 réponses à ce sujet

[cjones91]

I suspected Fiona was Alistair's mom purely from the fact she told Duncan to watch over her baby.

[Hellion Rex]

Closing Veil tears is what we do. Might take a bit, but it'll stick eventually.

Maybe. But I'd prefer to meet her before I decide her fate. This is of course assuming that she doesn't die in the creation of the Breach, which I believe she does.

[Nyeredzi]

Why do you even care about this generic pile of fan-service?

[Feybrad]

Why do you even care about this generic pile of fan-service?

 

You can't say that on these Forums, man.

[DinkyD]

The more I think about this the more I find it's difficult to pull a coherent narrative together.

 

It renders all we know about Alistair's past confusing. If Fiona is Alistair's mother that canonises The Calling. In TC Maric seems to care about the child and wants to ensure he is well taken of.

 

So what happens next... he takes him to his bachelor brother-in-law (rather than some nice family not connected in any way to royalty) and drops him off, forgetting to tell him not to tell the child who his father is, but remembering to tell Eamon some tale about his mother being human, in case he needs to be considered for the throne at some point, even though Maric doesn't want his child ever getting into all that royal business.

 

The moment he leaves he seems to forget about Alistair's existence for 15 years, despite his doting father status – as he doesn't notice that Alistair is not happy and possibly subject to a degree of neglect. Maric does notice that Eamon gets married, because he gets annoyed about her being an Orlesian (despite Fiona, the mother of his own son, also being an Orlesian - you'd have thought he'd have got over that. ) But doesn't think to enquire what effect this change in domestic arrangements has on his son. Also why does Maric think that Alistair being raised by the Chantry from age 10, and to eventually become a templar, is what Fiona, a mage that opposes the Chantry I understand, would want?

 

Likewise Duncan doesn't notice Alistair is not happy, despite his promise to Fiona, but does manage to turn up 20 years later to recruit him into the Grey Wardens. He does manage to do that before Alistair becomes addicted to Lyrium. Point to Duncan there. Take away a point because shortening his life span, and rendering him unlikely to have a family of his own is apparently Duncan's best take on watching over the child. Don't know enough about Fiona to know whether she would approve.

 

So was I meant to have been this confused all along?

[Andraste_Reborn]

So was I meant to have been this confused all along?

 

You left out the part where Loghain knows that Alistair exists but thinks he really is the son of a serving maid that Maric slept with while Rowan was still alive. So he knows about the king's bastard son, but not about how old he is. Because of Reasons.

 

(This is the part that bugs me the most, to be honest. I don't mind Alistair being Fiona's son, but I hate that a whole conversation with Loghain is now nonsensical.)

[BlueMagitek]

Alistair is extremely close to being a Mary Sue now.

 

Dragon blood, mother is a ex warden who cured her taint and was leader oft he mages, a grey warden, has templar powers, is possible king...

 

Jesus christ, there are fan fics better then this. Extremely disappointed.

 

Or, he's been tortured to death.  Or he died a hero.  Or he is an incoherant drunk.

[DinkyD]

You left out the part where Loghain knows that Alistair exists but thinks he really is the son of a serving maid that Maric slept with while Rowan was still alive. So he knows about the king's bastard son, but not about how old he is. Because of Reasons.

 

(This is the part that bugs me the most, to be honest. I don't mind Alistair being Fiona's son, but I hate that a whole conversation with Loghain is now nonsensical.)

 

Well, we went on and on and on about that earlier in the thread. It's Alistair's entire backstory I'm trying to deal with now.

 

You may be interested to know that Alistair also thinks that Rowan was alive. (It's in a conversation prior to the landsmeet - check out my earlier posts)

[Andraste_Reborn]

Well, we went on and on and on about that earlier in the thread. It's Alistair's entire backstory I'm trying to deal with now.

 

You may be interested to know that Alistair also thinks that Rowan was alive. (It's in a conversation prior to the landsmeet - check out my earlier posts)

 

Sorry I missed that, I skipped from about page twelve to page thirty somewhere in there .

 

Duncan recruiting him into the Wardens sort of makes sense even if Fiona wouldn't approve, since it was probably the only way he could get him away from the Templars. Given that Alistair was cleary miserable in the Chantry and seems to have been delighted to join the Wardens (even with the whole early death thing) I can see Duncan deciding that was the lesser of two evils.

 

Maric and Eamon's behaviour, however, doesn't seem to make much sense.

[DinkyD]

Sorry I missed that, I skipped from about page twelve to page thirty somewhere in there .

 

Duncan recruiting him into the Wardens sort of makes sense even if Fiona wouldn't approve, since it was probably the only way he could get him away from the Templars. Given that Alistair was cleary miserable in the Chantry and seems to have been delighted to join the Wardens (even with the whole early death thing) I can see Duncan deciding that was the lesser of two evils.

 

Maric and Eamon's behaviour, however, doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

Yes, it can be rationalised more than the rest. I do have to wonder whether Duncan has some code about not conscripting someone he doesn't later put through the joining  - I could see that as being the case. He could have conscripted Alistair and then let him go his own way. Perhaps Alistair's desire to be a warden was the deciding factor. Doesn't explain why Duncan wasn't paying attention for 20 years though.

 

And that Arl Eamon - I've rationalised the age thing by believing the Arl deliberately told Alistair that he was older than he was, so he get his emotional hooks into him by telling him he was the product of adultery, with Eamon's own sister as the injured party. Horrible eh? Somehow Loghain's in on it as well cos of reasons. Add emotional abuse to the list of Eamon's crimes.

[GVulture]

The World of Thedas needs to be redone then if this is true, doesn't it? Because it suggested the opposite, that Alistair birth date and Maric meeting Fiona are too far apart for Alistair to be Fiona's son (I can't remember which it is and I haven't got my book here with me)

 

EDIT:

 

9:10 Dragon:

 

King Maric allows the order of Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden after two centuries of exile.

 

Alistair, a future hero of the Fifth Blight, is born in Ferelden.

 

9:14 Dragon:

 

Underneath Fereldan, the intelligent darkspawn known as the Architect attempts to unearth and kill the remaining Old Gods and taint the entire surface world. His efforts are thwarted by King Maric and a band of Wardens.

 

This is apparently an error, isn't it? The wiki has all three events happening in 9:10

The wiki is correct as they issued a correction gimmick (I think there is a link on the wiki) that states that the Alistair was born 9:10. That's why his wiki says as much.

[Han Shot First]

Again Loghain does nt have first hand knowledge of who Alistairs mother is. That means he did not see Alistair born or was their when he was born. That leaves reason of doubt because he is just going off what ever he was told by Maric and their is a non-zero chance that what Maric told him was a lie. Every second hand info has that chance. It does not matter what Loghain says. If their is no guarantee that what he is saying is what happen that we can't use what he says as 100% valid. The only way we can take what he says as 100% valid is if he was there when Alistair was born. That the issue with all second hand information. Why don't you get this.

 

 

That is what I mean about mental gymnastics. You have to come up with head canon reasons to explain away Loghain's dialogue about Alistair being born while Rowan lived, because at face value it no longer makes sense thanks to the Fiona reveal. That there is a problem in the story that only head canon can fix, is the very definition of an inconsistency.

 

I can understand someone preferring that Fiona be Alistair's mother. What I can't understand is pretending that it wasn't a retcon that created issues with DA:O's dialogue. 

[GVulture]

That is what I mean about mental gymnastics. You have to come up with head canon reasons to explain away Loghain's dialogue about Alistair being born while Rowan lived, because at face value it no longer makes sense thanks to the Fiona reveal. That there is a problem in the story that only head canon can fix, is the very definition of an inconsistency.

 

I can understand someone preferring that Fiona be Alistair's mother. What I can't understand is pretending that it wasn't a retcon that created issues with DA:O's dialogue. 

Of course, that could be explained by a THIRD child of Maric and Loghain got them confused.

[leaguer of one]

You left out the part where Loghain knows that Alistair exists but thinks he really is the son of a serving maid that Maric slept with while Rowan was still alive. So he knows about the king's bastard son, but not about how old he is. Because of Reasons.

 

(This is the part that bugs me the most, to be honest. I don't mind Alistair being Fiona's son, but I hate that a whole conversation with Loghain is now nonsensical.)

You do understand the concept of 2nd hand knowledge? Loghain can say what ever he wants to say about who Alistair's mom is, that does not mean it's correct. Being that it second hand knowledge their is a chance of it being wrong. If it was first hand then you can say it's 100% true but he was not at Alistair birth or even in the same place. So unless he say first hand he can't be 100% correct about it. He is just say what he is told.

[Clockwork_Wings]

That is what I mean about mental gymnastics. You have to come up with head canon reasons to explain away Loghain's dialogue about Alistair being born while Rowan lived, because at face value it no longer makes sense thanks to the Fiona reveal. That there is a problem in the story that only head canon can fix, is the very definition of an inconsistency.

 

I can understand someone preferring that Fiona be Alistair's mother. What I can't understand is pretending that it wasn't a retcon that created issues with DA:O's dialogue. 

I figured that since Fiona was what Fereldan would consider the lowest of the low (lowborn, an elf, a mage, and a warden) instead of a suitable second wife, they'd consider it "cheating" whether Rowan was alive at the time or not.  Nobles are funny that way.

[leaguer of one]

That is what I mean about mental gymnastics. You have to come up with head canon reasons to explain away Loghain's dialogue about Alistair being born while Rowan lived, because at face value it no longer makes sense thanks to the Fiona reveal. That there is a problem in the story that only head canon can fix, is the very definition of an inconsistency.

 

I can understand someone preferring that Fiona be Alistair's mother. What I can't understand is pretending that it wasn't a retcon that created issues with DA:O's dialogue. 

It's not coming up with head cannon. We literaly have Fiona ask Maric to hide who his mother really is from him and to hide the true from Loghain in the calling. And in DAO Goldanna was stated she was paid off to leave when her mother died.

 

This not using a head cannon to fix it but what stated in the story.

[leaguer of one]

Sorry I missed that, I skipped from about page twelve to page thirty somewhere in there .

 

Duncan recruiting him into the Wardens sort of makes sense even if Fiona wouldn't approve, since it was probably the only way he could get him away from the Templars. Given that Alistair was cleary miserable in the Chantry and seems to have been delighted to join the Wardens (even with the whole early death thing) I can see Duncan deciding that was the lesser of two evils.

 

Maric and Eamon's behaviour, however, doesn't seem to make much sense.

Maric is doing what Fiona asked him to do. Eamon is doing what Maric asked him to do. How does that not make sense?

[Han Shot First]

It's not coming up with head cannon. We literaly have Fiona ask Maric to hide who his mother really is from him and to hide the true from Loghain in the calling. And in DAO Goldanna was stated she was paid off to leave when her mother died.

 

This not using a head cannon to fix it but what stated in the story.

 

There is nothing either in the games or the books indicating that the dialogue was incorrect. You need to come up with head canon reasons to explain away the inconsistencies. And there is nothing wrong with that, until you start pretending that it isn't head canon and that Fiona was intended to be Alistair's mother at the time that DA:O was written. That quite obviously isn't the case or we wouldn't have had the Goldanna quest or the dialogue from Loghain suggesting Rowan lived when Alistair was born.

[DinkyD]

There is nothing either in the games or the books indicating that the dialogue was incorrect. You need to come up with head canon reasons to explain away the inconsistencies. And there is nothing wrong with that, until you start pretending that it isn't head canon and that Fiona was intended to be Alistair's mother at the time that DA:O was written. That quite obviously isn't the case or we wouldn't have had the Goldanna quest or the dialogue from Loghain suggesting Rowan lived when Alistair was born.

 

<nudges Han Shot First>

 

& Alistair's dialogue. Don't let that slide. And the codex. Alistair had to be hidden from Zombie Queen Rowan who was wandering around Denerim poking her undead nose into things.

[Clockwork_Wings]

I thought I read, it may have just been a rumor, that Fiona may play a roll in DAI.  Maybe we'll find out she's been keeping a spreadsheet of events.

 

9:10: Had lovechild by king of Fereldan, made him promise baby would not be involved in politics...

9:12: Baby sent to live with the brother of king's late wife.

...

...

baby ends blight...baby crowned king...

 

et al.

[DinkyD]

I figured that since Fiona was what Fereldan would consider the lowest of the low (lowborn, an elf, a mage, and a warden) instead of a suitable second wife, they'd consider it "cheating" whether Rowan was alive at the time or not.  Nobles are funny that way.

 

You see, you see! In order to make this retcon work poor suffering Clockwork_Wings here has to change the meaning of basic English words. Have you no pity Bioware? Have you no pity????

[leaguer of one]

There is nothing either in the games or the books indicating that the dialogue was incorrect. You need to come up with head canon reasons to explain away the inconsistencies. And there is nothing wrong with that, until you start pretending that it isn't head canon and that Fiona was intended to be Alistair's mother at the time that DA:O was written. That quite obviously isn't the case or we wouldn't have had the Goldanna quest or the dialogue from Loghain suggesting Rowan lived when Alistair was born.

There does not need to be. Not all information is going to be given to the player all at once in game or in a particular game. This would be like saying because in Awakening the Architect does not show or is ever states that he plans to taint the world for coexistence that he never planned it and is not planning it now. They don't need to show that it may be false. All story, lore and codex are done in a way that what is state to happen has a chance to be untrue or false unless it's seen first hand.

 

Added the point with Goldanna's quest was never just to meet her.

[leaguer of one]

<nudges Han Shot First>

 

& Alistair's dialogue. Don't let that slide. And the codex. Alistair had to be hidden from Zombie Queen Rowan who was wandering around Denerim poking her undead nose into things.

And Alistair has 2nd hand knowledge of what happen so it can be false.

[Gorguz]

And Alistair has 2nd hand knowledge of what happen so it can be false.

Yes! It's all 2nd hand knowledge! Marric closer friend, Alistair, supposedly Rowan the Zombie Queen too!The other ones are all liars and aholes, from Eamon to Duncan! And Marric is the King : he thinks Alistair's mother is dead! [Until We Sleep, Issue 03, page 17 "The people I love are all here -- Cailan, your mother, Loghain..."]

Modifié par BioWareMod01, 12 juillet 2014 - 09:49 .

[DinkyD]

And Alistair has 2nd hand knowledge of what happen so it can be false.

 

So you are not concerned at all about WHY he thinks he's at least 2 years 9 months older than he actually is? And Loghain is prone to the same error? Or not even a little bit curious?