937 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Yes! It's all 2nd hand knowledge! Marric closer friend, Alistair, supposedly Rowan the Zombie Queen too!The other ones are all liars and aholes, from Eamon to Duncan! And Marric is the King of Retards: he thinks Alistair's mother is dead! [Until We Sleep, Issue 03, page 17 "The people I love are all here -- Cailan, your mother, Loghain..."]

Why are we arguing with him? He won't acknoledge plotholes and inconsistencies, he will keep clutching at straws since he really like the idea of Alistair being Fiona's son.

And we already know Maric does not tell Loghain everything. Being a close friend does not mean he knows ever single detail about a persons life. You may know more then other people and have a close bond but you don't know everything. Heck, Loghain does not even know Maric slepted with Fiona. When Alistair was born also can be hidden from him. It never made clear Alistair knows he was born 9:10. And everyone keeping this secret does not make them aholes, they were asked to do this by the mother and father.

[leaguer of one]

So you are not concerned at all about WHY he thinks he's at least 2 years 9 months older than he actually is? And Loghain is prone to the same error? Or not even a little bit curious?

Because he was told this and this is all he is working off. A person does not know how old they are unless they know their birth date. The only way they would know that is if others tell the person their birth date or their is a record left of their birth date. Unless Alitstair has a birth record shown to him that says other wise what guarantees he was ever told his correct birth date. Only the player know with outside information. Just because the player know info does not mean the character in the story knows it.

[In Exile]

<nudges Han Shot First>

 

& Alistair's dialogue. Don't let that slide. And the codex. Alistair had to be hidden from Zombie Queen Rowan who was wandering around Denerim poking her undead nose into things.

It's kind of how Howe decided on his own to kill Bryce Cousland instead of teaming up with Loghain, how Loghain used his telephatic powers to figure out you survived Ostagar a substantial amount of time after the fact, and how he arranged the poision of Eamon, found Jowan, etc. in the time it took him to get back to Denerim an the Warden to wake up, because when he got there Eamon was already poisoned. 

 

The DA:O plot and timeline is b0rked to hell and back because of re-writes. 

[DinkyD]

Because he was told this and this is all he is working off. A person does not know how old they are unless they know their birth date. The only way they would know that is if others tell the person their birth date or their is a record left of their birth date. Unless Alitstair has a birth record shown to him that says other wise what guarantees he was ever told his correct birth date. Only the player know with outside information. Just because the player know info does not mean the character in the story knows it.

 

So who told him the wrong date? And most importantly why?

 

I must admit I've had fun coming up with head cannon to fix this. So far I've invented evil Eamon emotionally torturing Alistair and jealous Zombie Queen Rowan keeping check on her still living husband. And Clockwork_Wings is having fun with his dictionary re-writing definitions of common English words.

[HiroVoid]

It's kind of how Howe decided on his own to kill Bryce Cousland instead of teaming up with Loghain, how Loghain used his telephatic powers to figure out you survived Ostagar a substantial amount of time after the fact, and how he arranged the poision of Eamon, found Jowan, etc. in the time it took him to get back to Denerim an the Warden to wake up, because when he got there Eamon was already poisoned. 

 

The DA:O plot and timeline is b0rked to hell and back because of re-writes. 

It's actually funny since a lot of it can be traced back that it would have made much more sense if Loghain had known about Cailan planning to dump Anora for Celene.  Of course, that would still leave the Alistair mess and Jowan's recruitment from the origin a bit weird.

[In Exile]

It's actually funny since a lot of it can be traced back that it would have made much more sense if Loghain had known about Cailan planning to dump Anora for Celene.  Of course, that would still leave the Alistair mess and Jowan's recruitment from the origin a bit weird.

Loghain planning to betray Cailan from the start would have fixed a lot of timeline issues and plot holes, and it would explain how Eamon was alive and well when Duncan saw him but poisoned when Teagan saw Loghain. 

[HiroVoid]

Loghain planning to betray Cailan from the start would have fixed a lot of timeline issues and plot holes, and it would explain how Eamon was alive and well when Duncan saw him but poisoned when Teagan saw Loghain. 

Yeah.  As it is now, the actual reasons are something along the lines of Loghain knew something was coming up politically with Cailan, so he poisoned Eamon in a way that wouldn't kill him which is why he didn't die when the demon stopped taking care of him.

[leaguer of one]

So who told him the wrong date? And most importantly why?

 

I must admit I've had fun coming up with head cannon to fix this. So far I've invented evil Eamon emotionally torturing Alistair and jealous Zombie Queen Rowan keeping check on her still living husband. And Clockwork_Wings is having fun with his dictionary re-writing definitions of common English words.

Who? Whom ever who raised him.(And we already know who did that.)

 

Why? You're still asking why at this point? It's a cover up because it was asked by the mother and father to cover it up.

 

And really it's not a head cannon.

 

And how is Eamon emotionally torturing Alistair by doing this?  Alistar does not know, him not knowing does not effect him.

[LilyasAvalon]

Alright, whether Alistair was originally intended to be Fiona/Maric's son or not, fact remains he is now.

 

I think Eamon didn't know who Alistair's real mother was, for all Eamon knew, it could've been some serving girl.

 

Goldanna and her mother dying around the time baby Alistair showed up were just circumstantial. It's not unheard of.

Maybe Goldanna's mother was PURPOSEFULLY killed because baby Alistair showed up. Better Alistair's mother be a human serving girl, a dead one no less, then an alive elven warden mage, no? It seemed odd Maric only had one official heir after all.

[DinkyD]

Who? Whom ever who raised him.(And we already know who did that.)

 

Why? You're still asking why at this point? It's a cover up because it was asked by the mother and father to cover it up.

 

And really it's not a head cannon.

 

And how is Eamon emotionally torturing Alistair by doing this?  Alistar does not know, him not knowing does not effect him.

 

So what does telling Alistair he is older than he is cover up? How can he believe he was was Goldanna's half brother born and died 9:10 when he himself believes he was born at latest in 9:08? It threatens blow open the whole thing.

 

Telling a child a lie that his father cheated on your sister in order to create you isn't a nice thing to do. But it's my head cannon now, sorry Eamon.

[leaguer of one]

So what does telling Alistair he is older than he is cover up? How can he believe he was was Goldanna's half brother born and died 9:10 when he himself believes he was born at latest in 9:08? It threatens blow open the whole thing.

 

Telling a child that his father cheated on your sister in order to create you isn't a nice thing to do.

Every cover up is meant to have an answer for the question any child would have about his mother if they never met them and wonder who they were.

 

Who's my mother?

What did she do?

Where is she now?

How did she meet my dad?

 

So on a so forth. This is not hard to understand. Anything done was just to make sure they can answer any question Alistair had and not leave him any doubts. It all about answer what ever questions where he came from

[In Exile]

Yeah.  As it is now, the actual reasons are something along the lines of Loghain knew something was coming up politically with Cailan, so he poisoned Eamon in a way that wouldn't kill him which is why he didn't die when the demon stopped taking care of him.

 

It's not just the "why" though. It's the "when". When does Loghain have time to poison Eamon? When does he have time to team up with Howe? 

 

People are acting like Bioware doesn't royally screw up their timelines in every single game ever. DA2 required Anders to basically time travel to be in that game along with DA:A. 

[DinkyD]

This isn't about any minor inconsistencies that already exist in Origins. It's about the deliberate choice to introduce new actual contradictions into the stuff that was perfectly fine before. To such an extent whole characters & convos now don't make sense.

[KaiserShep]

Regarding this Fiona thing, I guess what really bugs me the most about the idea of her being Alistair's mother is that one of the things I really liked about Alistair was his very humble, ordinary beginning.

[LilyasAvalon]

This isn't about any minor inconsistencies that already exist in Origins. It's about the deliberate choice to introduce new actual contradictions into the stuff that was perfectly fine before. To such an extent whole characters & convos now don't make sense.

 

How so?

 

The only people who knew about Fiona being Alistair's real mother are dead, save Fiona herself, who is Maker knows where.

 

There's been nothing to suggest Eamon knew who Alistair's mother was. Like I said, for all Eamon knew, Alistair's mother WAS a serving girl.

 

 

Regarding this Fiona thing, I guess what really bugs me the most about the idea of her being Alistair's mother is that one of the things I really liked about Alistair was his very humble, ordinary beginning.

 

While I agree with you, does that necessarily change who he is?

 

Having a King for a father and a Warden Mage for a mother didn't exactly effect Alistair's childhood that much. He still slept in the stables, he still believed his mother was just a serving girl and he still ended up at the chantry.

 

Your blood doesn't define who you are.

[Xilizhra]

Regarding this Fiona thing, I guess what really bugs me the most about the idea of her being Alistair's mother is that one of the things I really liked about Alistair was his very humble, ordinary beginning.

His humble beginning as a bastard prince? I... don't know about that.

[leaguer of one]

This isn't about any minor inconsistencies that already exist in Origins. It's about the deliberate choice to introduce new actual contradictions into the stuff that was perfectly fine before. To such an extent whole characters & convos now don't make sense.

You're still missing the concept of 1st hand and 2nd hand sources. 2nd hand sources always have a chance to be wrong. They are always going to be based on something they found out indirectly. Think of it like roumors. While 1st hand source don't have that issue because the people accurately sees and knows what happen.

 

What Alistair and Loghain says are 2nd hand sources, they have no 100% confirmation, just know what they are told. It like say it an inconstancy that Corypheus say that he found the Golden city already black when everyone in the chantry say he and his magesters turned it black from gold.

[BlazingSpeed]

Truth be told I never doubted that the child at the end of the Calling was intended to be Alistair. 

 

I just really, really wished he wasn't.

 

It's a stupid plotline spawned by a terrible book, and I wish I could go back to waving the Death of the Author flag and pretending it wasn't true. 

 

But it's looking like that refuge is being taken away from me. 

 

So now I'm just going to have to make "Alistair is dead" my default world state in all playthroughs and hope that it never gets brought up.

 

 

 

Yep, My Cousland Warden can rule Ferelden and cover up that awful cover up the fact that in Biowares default world state the Warden did the US ending (taking away most of the Wardens feats that Fiona already did better...) with Al as King is even more galling.

 

Thanks Mr Laidlaw for opening back up that can of worms in the most indiscreet manner possible.

[leaguer of one]

Regarding this Fiona thing, I guess what really bugs me the most about the idea of her being Alistair's mother is that one of the things I really liked about Alistair was his very humble, ordinary beginning.

....That did not change. His humble beginning is still there.

[DinkyD]

How so?

 

The only people who knew about Fiona being Alistair's real mother are dead, save Fiona herself, who is Maker knows where.

 

There's been nothing to suggest Eamon knew who Alistair's mother was. Like I said, for all Eamon knew, Alistair's mother WAS a serving girl.

 

 

Goldanna being so convinced her mother was pregnant with the King's Kid, why both Loghain and Alistair think he was born/conceived while Rowan was alive although they've never spoken, codex saying both Alistair and Rowan were alive at the same time. All consistent with itself but not with Fiona being his mother.

[leaguer of one]

Goldanna being so convinced her mother was pregnant with the King's Kid, why both Loghain and Alistair think he was born/conceived while Rowan was alive although they've never spoken, codex saying both Alistair and Rowan were alive at the same time. All consistent with itself but not with Fiona being his mother.

No chance Maric did sleep with Goldanna's mom and got pergnated and both the child and mom die in child birth?

 

No chance that Alistair does not know he was born 9:10 and he thinks he's older and was told he was Goldanna's mom's child in place of the real child that died.

[Feybrad]

Maybe the mother was simply an elven Servant Girl, making both Goldanna and Alistair elf-blooded and fixing all these Issues?

 

Or was it specifically confirmed that Fiona is the Mother? As far as I recall it's only confirmed that Alistair is elf-blooded.

[DinkyD]

No chance Maric did sleep with Goldanna's mom and got pergnated and both the child and mom die in child birth?

 

No chance that Alistair does not know he was born 9:10 and he thinks he's older and was told he was Goldanna's mom's child in place of the real child that died.

 

Well that's a least coherent, and I quite like it. Assumes that Goldanna is paid off anyway and not allowed to see the body of her brother though, all so she can provide a suitable alibi in case Maric wants to sire another bastard that needs a home later on and that child eventually comes looking for his family.

 

Much more likely that Alistair was always intended to be Goldanna's half-brother, only someone at Bioware decided later on Fiona as mum was more interesting.

 

We must stop doing Bioware's work for them you know, I want them to explain.

[Dabrikishaw]

Oh wait, Alistair's no longer related to that horrible person Goldanna? Just more good news.

[leaguer of one]

Maybe the mother was simply an elven Servant Girl, making both Goldanna and Alistair elf-blooded and fixing all these Issues?

 

Or was it specifically confirmed that Fiona is the Mother? As far as I recall it's only confirmed that Alistair is elf-blooded.

*Sigh....

 

https://twitter.com/...585267336142848

 

 

"Sorry. Thought it was pretty obvious and widely known. It's never been a secret."

-Mike Laidlaw