937 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

Well yeah its obvious to some who read the book. I understand fully why its not to those who didnt. It can get confusing indeed! Like I've never read the comics and asunder. Thats why when I found out alistair have this dragon blood, I was baffled. And I did not get the fiona hate. I should get those materials to understand things before inquisition.

[Gorguz]

If I understand correctly, some of you who didn't read the calling think that in the book it is clearly stated that Alistair is Fiona's son. It's not like that, on the contrary, the book is coherent ith the game. If you read the book, you come to the conclusion that alistair lives in a village by the lake calenad and that fiona's son is the third theirin.

Anyway, if ML says that "it's not a secret", then why don't they explain how facts developed? Afterall, it has been "years" since they said that fiona is mother of alistair. In those years they should have found a way to make that statement fit in the story. It's time for bioware to give us an official canon, so that we can stop making up improbable headcanons on our own. What do they have to lose?

[Xetykins]

Where's the fun in that? :-)

[Gorguz]

Where's the fun in that? :-)

It's not fun when the headcanons don't go further than "everybody is a liar or ignorant on the matter".

[LilyasAvalon]

Goldanna being so convinced her mother was pregnant with the King's Kid, why both Loghain and Alistair think he was born/conceived while Rowan was alive although they've never spoken, codex saying both Alistair and Rowan were alive at the same time. All consistent with itself but not with Fiona being his mother.

 

Except Loghain never said Rowan was alive when Alistair was born (or at least it never came up) and Alistair is hardly the most reliable source.

 

Besides, Loghain was still Maric's friend, despite everything. He'd probably die keeping Maric's secret about Fiona.

 

Also, the codex itself is what the Warden knew at the time or information the warden found, you never noticed how it updated or changed itself when new information as revealed? How is the Warden supposed to know about something, that was such a tight lipped secret?

[LilyasAvalon]

If I understand correctly, some of you who didn't read the calling think that in the book it is clearly stated that Alistair is Fiona's son. It's not like that, on the contrary, the book is coherent ith the game. If you read the book, you come to the conclusion that alistair lives in a village by the lake calenad and that fiona's son is the third theirin.

It's not clearly defined, but it's pretty damn obvious. Unless there were plans for a third Theirin.

 

Maybe Fiona being Alistair's mother is just a fun side note that'll never be important?

[Gorguz]

It's not clearly defined, but it's pretty damn obvious. Unless there were plans for a third Theirin.

 

Maybe Fiona being Alistair's mother is just a fun side note that'll never be important?

I actually think there was supposed to be a third Theirin, and they changed their mind on the way creating this mess. I think they want only a Theirin with magical blood around (if Alistair is dead, Marric is alive and viceversa), maybe for a new plot. There could be the OGB with Theirin blood though.

[Dermain]

Except Loghain never said Rowan was alive when Alistair was born (or at least it never came up) and Alistair is hardly the most reliable source.

 

Besides, Loghain was still Maric's friend, despite everything. He'd probably die keeping Maric's secret about Fiona.

 

Well, we have to remember Loghain pretty much worshiped Rowan, and he always felt that Maric didn't treat her correctly. When Loghain found out about Alsitair's existence he likely assumed that Rowan had been alive because (in Loghains mind) that would be just another affront Maric caused her. We also have to remember that Loghain blamed Maric for Rowan's death. If Loghain were to know directly about Fiona he would be even more offended that Maric "cheated" (on a dead) Rowan, AND that he "cheated" on Rowan with an "Orlesian"! Would he reveal it? Probably not, but it likely would not be because it would be out of friendship.

 

Another explanation for Loghain knowing about Alsitair's existence is because Maric told Loghain, and Loghain convinced Maric that revealing accepting Alistair as a son would shame Rowan's memory. An alternate version would be that Loghain found out without talking to Maric, but he would still feel that Maric, yet again, betrayed Rowan (even when dead). Which again would be something that Loghain would think of, but the main problem would be that after Rowan died Loghain and Maric started to slowly drift apart from each other.  

 

It's not "mental gymnastics" unless you're completely meta-gaming the entire scenario. Just because you know X does not mean that all of the characters in the game know X...

[MrDuck]

And here I went through all the trouble of befriending him in Origins. Bah! I always regret talking to knife-ears!

[DinkyD]

I actually think there was supposed to be a third Theirin, and they changed their mind on the way creating this mess. I think they want only a Theirin with magical blood around (if Alistair is dead, Marric is alive and viceversa), maybe for a new plot. There could be the OGB with Theirin blood though.

 

It's difficult to fathom what they intended. Maybe they left it ambiguous because they did realise that it was incompatible with DA:O and they just didn't want to make it obvious they have no continuity control.

 

Re Dragonblood, I see, maybe the third Theirin was to be made possible, in case Alistair dies. So we were invited to think it's Alistair, but it could have been another if that's the way the plot goes.

 

If it had ever come about there was a third, it would have made me really, really, sorry for Alistair though. Look, dear reader, here's the bastard child Maric actually cared about. He's the one who's probably going to grow up loved somewhere while Concerned Father watches over him and gets to have Duncan as “godparent” (Maker-parent?) . It seems Maric is perfectly capable of taking fatherly responsibility.

 

The one who's your companion in DA:O, he's the one he instantly forgot about. Didn't feel fatherly about this one. Possibly because his mother was just a servant – not special snowflake enough. Or she died before she could plead for his father to take care of him. Whatever, doesn't matter. Draw your own conclusions.

 

EDIT: for grammar.

Modifié par DinkyD, 13 juillet 2014 - 12:19 .

[Gorguz]

It's difficult to fathom what they intended. Maybe they left it ambiguous because they did realise that it was incompatible with DA:O and they just didn't want to make it obvious they have no continuity control.

 

Re Dragonblood, I see, maybe the third Theirin was to be made possible, in case Alistair dies. So we were invited to think it's Alistair, but it could have been another if that's the way the plot goes.

 

If it had ever come about there was a third, it would have made me really, really, sorry for Alistair though. Look, dear reader, here's the bastard child Maric actually cared about. He's the one who's probably going to grow up loved somewhere while Concerned Father watches over him and gets to have Duncan as “godparent” (Maker-parent?) . It seems Maric is perfectly capable of taking fatherly responsibility.

 

The one who's your companion in DA:O, he's the one he instantly forgot about. Didn't feel fatherly about this one. Possibly because his mother was just a servant – not special snowflake enough. Or she died before she could plead for his father to take care of him. Whatever, doesn't matter. Draw your own conclusions.

 

EDIT: for grammar.

You got my point. I think they wanted a spare Theirin in case Alistair is dead. Then they made the spare Theirin Marric himself (who is still around if Alistair is dead), and they didn't need a third son anymore. But they wrote about Fiona having a baby, so they turn that baby in Alistair. That's my idea.

[DinkyD]

My only issue with this: it doesn't mention Fiona anywhere. I checked his account and the conversation history. Nothing about Fiona. I believe you on this matter, but I'm just saying.

 

He says "It's in The Calling, which is several years old". So I think we're stuck with it.

 

You got my point. I think they wanted a spare Theirin in case Alistair is dead. Then they made the spare Theirin Marric himself (who is still around if Alistair is dead), and they didn't need a third son anymore. But they wrote about Fiona having a baby, so they turn that baby in Alistair. That's my idea.

 

If you're wrong, and it really was meant to be obvious, I do hope Bioware learn something from the fact that some people who'd read the novel weren't convinced the baby was Alistair. I don't think that was just due to the Goldanna/dialogue/codex entries but also, or perhaps even mainly, because of the fact there doesn't seem any continuity in narrative and character. Why write all this lovely new parent stuff when you've already developed the whole character around being a forgotten bastard sent off to the Chantry? That's the bit that jars with me the most.

[leaguer of one]

If I understand correctly, some of you who didn't read the calling think that in the book it is clearly stated that Alistair is Fiona's son. It's not like that, on the contrary, the book is coherent ith the game. If you read the book, you come to the conclusion that alistair lives in a village by the lake calenad and that fiona's son is the third theirin.

Anyway, if ML says that "it's not a secret", then why don't they explain how facts developed? Afterall, it has been "years" since they said that fiona is mother of alistair. In those years they should have found a way to make that statement fit in the story. It's time for bioware to give us an official canon, so that we can stop making up improbable headcanons on our own. What do they have to lose?

Bioware made it a point that the end of the book happen in 9:10 when Alistair was born...

[leaguer of one]

Why write all this lovely new parent stuff when you've already developed the whole character around being a forgotten bastard sent off to the Chantry? That's the bit that jars with me the most.

Why not? This does not change the development of the character who's parents are reveal. This is character development for the parents not the child.

[DinkyD]

Bioware made it a point that the end of the book happen in 9:10 when Alistair was born...

 

At no point in the game do I remember of being informed of either Alistair's year of birth or age.

 

Why not? This does not change the development of the character who's parents are reveal. This is character development for the parents not the child.

 

OK - I'll rephrase. Why bother to write Maric as a concerned father, loyal lover and faithful husband when you've already established in DA:O that he is none of the three?

[leaguer of one]

At no point in the game do I remember of being informed of either Alistair's year of birth or age.

 

 

OK - I'll rephrase. Why bother to write Maric as a concerned father, loyal lover and faithful husband when you've already established in DA:O that he is none of the three?

1. They did that both in Wot.

 

2.The book did not even do that. The book made him off to be a guy who wanted to run from his responsibility. He did not give Calin much attention after his wife died until after the quest. It showed that he did not know how to do all that.

[DinkyD]

1. They did that both in Wot.

 

2.The book did not even do that. The book made him off to be a guy who wanted to run from his responsibility. He did not give Calin much attention after his wife died until after the quest. It showed that he did not know how to do all that.

 

1.  So you teling me I should have bought a third title to understand the The Calling, which was telling me something important about DA:O?

 

2. But this evolution of his parenting, modest as it was, still didn't extend to Alistair who was new born at the time and continued not to do so for the next 15 years. 

[leaguer of one]

1.  So you teling me I should have bought a third title to understand the The Calling, which was telling me something important about DA:O?

 

2. But this evolution of his parenting, modest as it was, still didn't extend to Alistair who was new born at the time and continued not to do so for the next 15 years. 

1. That where it was corrected. Rememer, the calling has the wrong year in it.

2.Maric meeting Alistair would of brought  political attention he never wanted Alistair to have. It really is a damned if do damned if you don't situation.

[leaguer of one]

Yeah, I know, but he doesn't say what is in The Calling. Alistair's mother? Never says what he's referring to. I didn't mean Fiona, rather Alistair's mother in general.

The issue is that the original question is already gone. But we can still see that was the question based on the response to the question... like..

 

 

"Thanks for clearing it up. Confusion seems to stem from some statements from Loghain. Any input? "

-Andrew Doucet

[DinkyD]

Hold on! I've been thinking again. Was I right in my earlier post, was the purpose of TC to make you more sorry for Alistair?

 

So Maric fathers this bastard, during a period of personal growth and growing realisation that he has to live up to his responsibilities. He is presented with his love child, which awakens all these fuzzy fatherly feelings of responsibility. So having been moved with these warm parental feelings he goes home and cuddles legitimate heir Cailan and goes fishing or does whatever fathers and sons do in Thedas.

 

This is after dumping this serendipitous bastard on his brother-in-law to be forgotten about.

 

Having not read it, is this a decent summary? It makes you want to cry.

[Herr Uhl]

Hold on! I've been thinking again. Was I right in my earlier post, was the purpose of TC to make you more sorry for Alistair?

 

No.

[leaguer of one]

Hold on! I've been thinking again. Was I right in my earlier post, was the purpose of TC to make you more sorry for Alistair?

 

So Maric fathers this bastard, during a period of personal growth and growing realisation that he has to live up to his responsibilities. He is presented with his love child, which awakens all these fuzzy fatherly feelings of responsibility. So having been moved with these warm parental feelings he goes home and cuddles legitimate heir Cailan and goes fishing or does whatever fathers and sons do in Thedas.

 

This is after dumping this serendipitous bastard on his brother-in-law to be forgotten about.

 

Having not read it, is this a decent summary? It makes you want to cry.

How was Alistair forgotten about? The main issue with your perspective is that you seem to make Alistair a victim when he's not.

[Hazegurl]

Why is the situation with Goldanna less defining for Alistair if she isn't really his sister? Both he and Goldanna believed they were related.

 

 

Alistair thought Goldanna was his sister. That's important to who he is as a person. The fact they aren't related by blood is completely irrelevant to the significance she has for his character, and the significance of being rejected by her to his development. 

If Gaider claims the scene never even happen then how can it define him? Therefore my point is that I see no sense in pretending it did happen or ignoring it entirely whenever I want to play the game. If I do the quest, it happened. I never said it wasn't defining. I said it is an important scene that defines him to the point of changing the outcome for the character so to claim it was a mistake and that it can be ignored is something I don't agree with. Which is why I ignore the books entirely and consider the game canon. If I read one of the books and it doesn't interfere with my canon play through then I have no problems accepting it, provided that I like it.  Overall, the games mean far more to me than the books.