937 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Gaider stated on the old forum that the Goldana quest happened due to lack of communication between the departments. Not shifting thru 30+ pages for it. If I or they are wrong then so be it, no big deal.  

 

I've never seen such a post. And the quest is too important in Alistair's development to not have happened. 

[HiroVoid]

I've never seen such a post. And the quest is too important in Alistair's development to not have happened. 

There's also a difference between the quest showing up because a mistake, and it not actually having happened.  Regardless of whether it was a mistake, it'd be weird if the quest wasn't acknowledged it if does get revaled to Alistair about Fiona being his mom.

[Hazegurl]

There's a show only Bioware post button at the top of the topic.

It was from a non BW employee.

 

I've never seen such a post. And the quest is too important in Alistair's development to not have happened.

 

It's here ...and that (bolded) is my entire point. *sigh*

[Silfren]

A) No, TV tropes link! How could you do this to me? My afternoon... 

 

 

*throws Exile a lifeline before they can get sucked into TV Tropes event horizon*

[DinkyD]

Yes, that is an error, that was clarified by David Gaider on the old BSN, iirc. There were other errors aswell in the Calling about Cailan's age and the date of Rowans death. Apparently there were two versions of the book.

 

And I'm pretty sure, that DG mentioned in one of his serieses on game-development on tumblr, that the Goldanna-Quest with Alistair was a result of a lack of communication between the writers and the quest-designers. So are all the other remarks, about Maric cheating on Rowan, because he didn't. When he slept with Fiona and Alistair was born, Rowan was dead for 2 years.

 

Very second hand info though. Also affects Alistair's fade dream of course  -  also didn't get the memo.

[BlueMagitek]

It was from a non BW employee.

Ah, boo.  Well, sorry I wasn't of any help.

[Eveangaline]

I just like this because it ends people saying "Feynriel clearly proves that elf blooded kids look elvish" when he just had a human model and yes he resembled his mom but he didn't look specifically elf at all. And people saying Fenrises owner must have been part elf because his ears were slightly pointed.

[leaguer of one]

And what?  Goldanna was still left thinking that the baby was alive, and she was paid off.  No need to do that if there is actually a dead baby to show her.  

 

Your own explanations make even LESS sense, sorry.  Hence the thing Han said about mental gymnastics.

She was told the baby was dead and never saw the body. She herself states this. This is not a contradiction.

[leaguer of one]

You do, actually.  This isn't about Loghain simply not having accurate information.  Everything he says on the subject of Alistair's birth indicates his belief that Alistair was conceived and born during Rowan's lifetime, and that he was hidden on that basis alone, to keep Rowan from being humiliated and reduced to a concubine in the eyes of the people.  

 

The only possible explanation for that would be to say not that Loghain simply had inaccurate information, but that he was an outright liar.  But that alone wouldn't work because someone, somewhere, would be able to add up the dates of what happened when and figure out that something didn't jive.  

 

The entire story of Origins reads exactly as if Alistair was intended to be the product of Maric's indiscretion.  If he turns out to actually be Fiona's son, so be it, but there's no point at all in pretending this was the intention all along when there's a mountain of evidence that proves it to the contrary.

Ageing, second hand information= chance of it not 100% true. Unless he was there when Alistair was popped out he statements can be seen as 100% accurate. He is just saying what he was told.

 

The explanation is that the info he was told was a lie and he believe the lie as the truth. That no hard to understand.

[leaguer of one]

Oh please.  This is NOT about fans being upset because they didn't like the story the writers wrote.  It IS about people being upset that the writers can't keep their own damn story straight.

So, you're going to be mad about the magisters not being the ones who turned the golden city black, too?

[Silfren]

She was told the baby was dead and never saw the body. She herself states this. This is not a contradiction.

 

Not my point.  If they had a vested interest in having Goldanna believe the baby was dead, which they clearly did if they paid her a coin and sent her away, well, it begs the question why she wasn't handed a dead baby if in your hypothetical there was one.  Hard for a kid to deny that.  

 

What she says is "they told me the babe was dead but I knew they was lyin'."  Again, if they wanted her to believe the baby was dead and there actually was a dead baby about the place, it stands to reason they would show it to her.

[Silfren]

So, you're going to be mad about the magisters not being the ones who turned the golden city black, too?

 

1) This is irrelevant.  What are you trying to prove with these non sequiturs?

 

2) So far as I know the only evidence that the Golden City was black before the Magisters arrived is the phrase "It was supposed to be golden," which, while appearing to confirm that belief, is actually sufficiently ambiguous that it doesn't confirm any such thing.

[In Exile]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Gaider stated on the old forum that the Goldana quest happened due to lack of communication between the departments. Not shifting thru 30+ pages for it. If I or they are wrong then so be it, no big deal.  I simply stated that if the quest didn't happen due to the books interfering with the game then I'll go with the game instead of either ignoring the entire quest or head canoning some reason as to why it happened.

 

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to accuse you, it just seemed totally ridiculous for someone to say that content that is clearly in the game was somehow a mistake, and I had a hard time believing it.

[In Exile]

*throws Exile a lifeline before they can get sucked into TV Tropes event horizon*

It was too late for me. I clicked on "Science Marches On" afterward ... and down the rabbit hole I went. I finally found freedom after hitting "Values Dissonance", which I had already binge-read recently enough it wasn't fun. 

[leaguer of one]

Not my point.  If they had a vested interest in having Goldanna believe the baby was dead, which they clearly did if they paid her a coin and sent her away, well, it begs the question why she wasn't handed a dead baby if in your hypothetical there was one.  Hard for a kid to deny that.  

 

What she says is "they told me the babe was dead but I knew they was lyin'."  Again, if they wanted her to believe the baby was dead and there actually was a dead baby about the place, it stands to reason they would show it to her.

Why would they show her the the babies body?

 

My point is their is a chance they stated Alistair was a baby who died form an earlier birth from an earlier mistress and lied to him about when he was born. 

[leaguer of one]

1) This is irrelevant.  What are you trying to prove with these non sequiturs?

 

2) So far as I know the only evidence that the Golden City was black before the Magisters arrived is the phrase "It was supposed to be golden," which, while appearing to confirm that belief, is actually sufficiently ambiguous that it doesn't confirm any such thing.

The line is

 

• "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long?"

Key statement "How long?" as to ask how long it was black before they got there.

 

The point of the example is that it new info that contradicts preexisting info.. similier to the new info for who Alistair mother changed with new info.

[LobselVith8]

Someone in this thread mentioned that Gaider stated on the old forum that the Goldana quest happened due to lack of communication between the departments. Not shifting thru 30+ pages for it. If I or they are wrong then so be it, no big deal.  I simply stated that if the quest didn't happen due to the books interfering with the game then I'll go with the game instead of either ignoring the entire quest or head canoning some reason as to why it happened.

 

There are things that Gaider seemed surprised about in the past - like the ghostly rhyme about Maric's death in the orphanage (the one where the elven children were massacred during the purge in the Denerim Alienage), or the dialogue option for Hawke telling Merrill that his mother is with the Maker - so the idea that having so many cooks in the kitchen leads to a lack of communication sometimes isn't surprising.

 

I'd like to see Alistair's heritage touched on, and how he feels about his mother's progressive movement for the Circle to vote for autonomy from the Chantry (particularly in the post-Magi Boon scenario where he argues for the local Circle Tower to be independent).

[Silfren]

The line is

 

• "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long?"

Key statement "How long?" as to ask how long it was black before they got there.

 

The point of the example is that it new info that contradicts preexisting info.. similier to the new info for who Alistair mother changed with new info.

 

The phrase "how long," there doesn't even vaguely read as referring to how long the City had been Black.  It refers to the "darkness, ever since," bit.  

[Silfren]

Why would they show her the the babies body?

 

Why would they NOT?  You're proposing the idea that there could have been a baby born to Goldanna's mother, that died right along with her mother.  If there was a dead baby, and they needed Goldanna to be aware of this, why would they NOT show her her dead sibling? You're being preposterous to ask "why would they." For this hypothetical, her sibling and her mother are dead.  She was there.  You're telling me they would go out of their way to prevent her from seeing the dead baby at all? When they clearly NEED her to believe it's dead because they paid her to shut up and go away?  That scenario doesn't make sense unless there is a live baby to deal with and no dead baby handily available to "prove" that Goldanna's sibling died.  If the baby IS dead and you don't want Goldanna telling anyone otherwise, you, DUH, make her accept the reality by letting her see the dead infant.  For someone who insists that we are making this unnecessarily complicated, you certainly are quick to disregard the obvious.  

 

Face it. Your scenario doesn't actually simplify the matter, it just raises more questions about why people would make decisions that run counter to their purported goals.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The entire problem arises when the book and the games states two different things. Dialogue in the game suggests that Rowan was alive when Alistair was born, and the Calling takes place after her death.

 

Now keep in mind, that ALL that is "confirmed" atm, is that Alistair is elf-blooded. They didn't straight up say that Fiona is his mother. We don't know wether or not Goldanna's mother was an Elf, and therefore keeping the quest and story of DA:O completely valid.

[Gorguz]

The entire problem arises when the book and the games states two different things. Dialogue in the game suggests that Rowan was alive when Alistair was born, and the Calling takes place after her death.

 

Now keep in mind, that ALL that is "confirmed" atm, is that Alistair is elf-blooded. They didn't straight up say that Fiona is his mother. We don't know wether or not Goldanna's mother was an Elf, and therefore keeping the quest and story of DA:O completely valid.

I really want to believe that, but the tweet from Laidlaw leaves few doubts. From now on, we can only hope they do not write about Fiona being Alistair mother ingame or in novels, so we can pretend that BS never happened. If we are lucky, Fiona dies as soon as the game start and that's it. If we are unlucky, in the human origin we see Fiona and Alistair reunited before she dies. If we are really really unlucky, FIona survives.

[Clockwork_Wings]

There's also a difference between the quest showing up because a mistake, and it not actually having happened.  Regardless of whether it was a mistake, it'd be weird if the quest wasn't acknowledged it if does get revaled to Alistair about Fiona being his mom.

I think she might be the wetnurse's daughter. 

 

But either way, how did Alistair find out about Goldanna in the first place?

[leaguer of one]

Why would they NOT?  You're proposing the idea that there could have been a baby born to Goldanna's mother, that died right along with her mother.  If there was a dead baby, and they needed Goldanna to be aware of this, why would they NOT show her her dead sibling? You're being preposterous to ask "why would they." For this hypothetical, her sibling and her mother are dead.  She was there.  You're telling me they would go out of their way to prevent her from seeing the dead baby at all? When they clearly NEED her to believe it's dead because they paid her to shut up and go away?  That scenario doesn't make sense unless there is a live baby to deal with and no dead baby handily available to "prove" that Goldanna's sibling died.  If the baby IS dead and you don't want Goldanna telling anyone otherwise, you, DUH, make her accept the reality by letting her see the dead infant.  For someone who insists that we are making this unnecessarily complicated, you certainly are quick to disregard the obvious.  

 

Face it. Your scenario doesn't actually simplify the matter, it just raises more questions about why people would make decisions that run counter to their purported goals.

They really don't have to show anything to her. Family do not have the same rights as they do now with seeing the dead family members. Heck, we don't even know if Goldonna saw her mothers body.

[leaguer of one]

The entire problem arises when the book and the games states two different things. Dialogue in the game suggests that Rowan was alive when Alistair was born, and the Calling takes place after her death.

 

Now keep in mind, that ALL that is "confirmed" atm, is that Alistair is elf-blooded. They didn't straight up say that Fiona is his mother. We don't know wether or not Goldanna's mother was an Elf, and therefore keeping the quest and story of DA:O completely valid.

The info in the game is 2nd hand knowledge.  What's stated in the book is first hand knowledge. 2nd hand knowledge always has a chance of being false. First hand knowledge does not.

 

This like finding out the golden city was black way before the magesters got there from the first hand info from the magister that was involved when all along you we're told they turned the city black from the chantry.