937 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

Funnily enough I was playing Origins last night and got to the scene with Alistair and Goldana. Two things were pretty damn clear in the dialogue - Goldana is Alistair's older sister and she was old enough to know that her mother was pregnant for nine months and died in childbirth. That's what she says to Alistair - "You killed our mother." She was also certainly aware that Maric was Alistair's father so clearly she saw her mother and Maric together.

That is complete supposition. It isn't clear she is his sister, only perceived as so. It is also not clear that she ever saw her mother and Maric together. It can be entirely possible she overheard a plot that concerned "the King's baby" and Goldanna assumed the baby in question was the one her mother was carrying.

Honestly, it's all guesswork and theory until we play DA:I and see how it plays out. I can say that *I* never doubted it. Too much coincidence for it to be anyone other than Alistair.

[DinkyD]

That is complete supposition. It isn't clear she is his sister, only perceived as so. It is also not clear that she ever saw her mother and Maric together. It can be entirely possible she overheard a plot that concerned "the King's baby" and Goldanna assumed the baby in question was the one her mother was carrying.

Honestly, it's all guesswork and theory until we play DA:I and see how it plays out. I can say that *I* never doubted it. Too much coincidence for it to be anyone other than Alistair.

 

Supposition? i think that assuming Goldanna had no knowledge at all is a huge supposition, and only one you can even conceive of if you've already read a tie-in book that raises more questions around the issue than just Goldanna. You've no reason to believe Goldanna is wrong within the narrative of Origins. 

 

I think even fewer people would have thought that the child in The Calling was Alistair if the book hadn't been released at around the same time as Origins. If it was released a few years ago, everyone would be speculating about a third child of Maric.

[KBomb]

Suppostion? i think that assuming Goldanna had no knowledge at all is a huge supposition, and only one you can even conceive of if you've already read a tie-in book that raises more questions around the issue than just Goldanna. You've no reason to believe Goldanna is wrong within the narrative of Origins. 

 

I think even fewer people would have thought that the child in The Calling was Alistair if the book hadn't been released at around the same time as Origins. If it was released a few years ago, everyone would be speculating about a third child of Maric.

Yes, supposition. Her thoughts on Goldanna's firsthand experience is supposition. Goldanna and Alistair believe they are siblings. That is fact. To say that Goldanna saw Maric and her mother together, is supposition. And no where did I state my thoughts on Goldanna being clueless was fact. If you read my post, you'd see that I said all of it was guesswork and theory and will remain so until we see how they handle it in the new game. 

[Silfren]

They really don't have to show anything to her. Family do not have the same rights as they do now with seeing the dead family members. Heck, we don't even know if Goldonna saw her mothers body.

 

The heck?  Why are you bringing up family's rights?  This doesn't have anything to do with family's rights and I certainly wasn't basing my argument on that at all.  Did you even bother to read what I wrote?  Because if you had, I find it hard to believe you would try to counter it with this unrelated nonsense.  It's not about what they have to do, but what about they logically WOULD do in the hypothetical scenario you provided.

 

It simply does not make even a little bit of sense that they would prevent Goldanna from seeing her dead sibling if they needed her to believe the baby was dead and they actually had a dead baby for her to see.

[Silfren]

Hypothetically speaking, the baby may not have even died. It's very plausible that the baby did live and was whisked away immediately. If Goldanna heard the baby cry, she would believe it to be alive. It's also entirely plausible the mother didn't die either. It wasn't unheard of in medieval times for a mother to leave her children, especially if enough coin was paid. Perhaps they told her Goldanna would be cared for and that is why they gave her a bit of coin and sent her on her way. Goldanna would have been maybe ten or so? Old enough to talk anyway. If she suspected or overheard someone stating something about "the king's baby", it would be best not to leave her with her mother and whom she thought was the king's bastard. Best to send the mother and baby away, tell the girl they both died and be done with it. Who is going to believe a common homeless girl? I mean, honestly, as someone who studied Tudor history, it isn't the wildest tale that has happened in real history, let alone fiction. Switching dead noble babies for common ones happened so much that noblemen started paying spies in birthing rooms, in case the midwife was paid off.

 

The Goldanna mission makes sense, too. If Alistair tracked her down, thinking she was his sister, how does him going to see her--as his sister--become inconsistent? 

 

Also, someone mentioned how it was implied Alistair was born before Rowan died, because of the "concubine" statement. Now, I may be wrong, and if I am, then ignore this, but does anyone, including Loghain, mention she was definitely alive, or was it just implied because if that statement? I can't think of any definitive statement. If it is based on the implication brought on by the "concubine", it can be explained. They may have wanted to protect Rowan posthumously, not to mention her heir. She was a legacy, an icon to her people. They most likely wanted people to remember the image of the King who loved no one, could love no one, but his Queen. 

 

Also, didn't someone from Bioware say the timeline was wrong and that Alistair would have been born after the death of the Queen? I could have sworn I read that when someone was complaining about The World of Thedas timeline. 

 

Oh, I'm not arguing this.  Rather, I'm disputing Leaguer's specific hypothetical of "is it impossible that Maric could have impregnated Goldanna's mother and her and the baby died?"  Apparently they are postulating that that event could have happened as a separate event alongside Alistair's birth as Fiona's son.  

 

That said, I have to say I don't understand what the scenario would be for anyone to feel it was necessary to send away Goldanna's mother and Goldanna's sibling, while keeping Goldanna around.  If you need the mother and baby to conveniently vanish so they can be presumed dead, and you're not in the market of actually killing them, seems like it would be far easier to send the girl away with them.  You're right, who is going to believe a common homeless girl?  On the other hand, why keep the common homeless girl around anyway?  

[KBomb]

Oh, I'm not arguing this.  Rather, I'm disputing Leaguer's specific hypothetical of "is it impossible that Maric could have impregnated Goldanna's mother and her and the baby died?"  Apparently they are postulating that that event could have happened as a separate event alongside Alistair's birth as Fiona's son.  

 

That said, I have to say I don't understand what the scenario would be for anyone to feel it was necessary to send away Goldanna's mother and Goldanna's sibling, while keeping Goldanna around.  If you need the mother and baby to conveniently vanish so they can be presumed dead, and you're not in the market of actually killing them, seems like it would be far easier to send the girl away with them.  You're right, who is going to believe a common homeless girl?  On the other hand, why keep the common homeless girl around anyway?  

I get what you're saying. It's quite possible they planned to make a switch with Goldanna's sibling and by luck, the mother and baby died and it just made their ruse all the easier. Goldanna is of little consequence either way. She was an uneducated, commoner who was young and naive. They most likely patted her on the head, gave her some coin and sent her on her way. There would be no need to prove anything to her. She most likely saw the coin as a way to shut her up and if she was as annoying in childhood as she was in adulthood, I don't blame them if they did do that. I don't think Maric got Goldanna's mother pregnant and there is some other child floating around out there, or that had died. In my opinion, it doesn't tie anything together at all, instead it just leaves the question of: Who cares about some serving girl that no one will hear about again, apart from some two-minute mission? The story is of Alistair and Fiona's connection, Goldanna and her mother are just a smoke screen that has already blown away because the real story hadn't been ready to tell. Well, that is my two cents, at least.

 

Of course, I am just speculating as everyone else is. I don't know what DG has planned for the storyline. It may be something entirely different and I am talking out of my ass(I have been known to do that.) All I am stating is there is a possible explanation for it. There are several. Some people seem to think that because it wasn't alluded to in the game, it can't be possible. That is what I am calling BS on. Events that happen in the novels and DLC still happen, whether your character is privy to them or not. Having knowledge of the book and the game, it kind of makes sense. It's also nice to see why Duncan was so concerned with Alistair, knowing that he promised both Fiona and Maric that he would keep an eye on him. 

 

Honestly, I don't even know why people are so up in arms over it. As I said before, people are acting as though Andraste is his mother and she hatched him from a dragon egg. 

[DinkyD]

.........

 

Of course, I am just speculating as everyone else is. I don't know what DG has planned for the storyline. It may be something entirely different and I am talking out of my ass(I have been known to do that.) All I am stating is there is a possible explanation for it. There are several. Some people seem to think that because it wasn't alluded to in the game, it can't be possible. That is what I am calling BS on. Events that happen in the novels and DLC still happen, whether your character is privy to them or not. Having knowledge of the book and the game, it kind of makes sense. It's also nice to see why Duncan was so concerned with Alistair, knowing that he promised both Fiona and Maric that he would keep an eye on him. 

 

Honestly, I don't even know why people are so up in arms over it. As I said before, people are acting as though Andraste is his mother and she hatched him from a dragon egg. 

 

If it was intended all along, then there should have been some hint at it in game – because that would have been Good Writing. That's what makes the difference between a twist in the plot and a something that's seems retcon. What our game characters know about is pretty irrelevant. It's about what was not even hidden from the player/reader, but what they have actually been mislead about. Hidden allows a plot twist to be convining, contradictions in what we've already been told - not so much.

 

I'm sure the writers could come up with some unlikely scenario to explain all this – but remember there's more problems to it then just the Goldanna scenario – yet that is likely to raise as many questions as it answers. As it's a fantasy game, they could come up with anything, but it wouldn't necessarily make it good writing. If you are willing to write any old nonsense, then nothing like this is ever going to be an issue.

 

The whole Duncan keeping an eye him – that's actually the thing I dislike the most. We now have to assume that Fiona as mother had some bearing on his decision to recruit him. Which I think is a shame, as it becomes something that happened to Alistair again because of his blood, not because of his own merit. Alistair also seems to remain sadly ignorant of this prior connection and goes on believing Duncan had reasons only relating to him personally. Alistair says at one point he dislikes people knowing who his father is because people then treat him differently. Well now this gives him the same problem with his mother. If Duncan had, for example, came out right at the beginning and told him he was recruiting him because he knew who his father was, would he have felt the same way about Duncan? I'm not sure.

[Feybrad]

I was about to ask the same Question.

[TK514]

Is this thread seriously still active?

 

Of course not.  Didn't you hear?  The debate on Alistair is finally over.

[Gorguz]

It was more about writing consistence than Alistair. I mean, look at Eamon, would you believe he is so lame? JK, debate is over. Until that part in DA:I will rekindle the outrage for bad writing and hate for Fiona the Super Elf Untainted Warden Orleasian Ubermage Mother of Kings. See you then.

[Tielis]

I remember when DAO first came out, there were plenty of people like myself who speculated on the old forums that Alistair was Fiona's son.

 

The devs swore up down and sideways that it wasn't true, stating that he was a serving girl's son and couldn't be Fiona's because he was born earlier, etc etc etc.

 

So yeah, this is just a lame retcon.

[Gorguz]

I remember when DAO first came out, there were plenty of people like myself who speculated on the old forums that Alistair was Fiona's son.

 

The devs swore up down and sideways that it wasn't true, stating that he was a serving girl's son and couldn't be Fiona's because he was born earlier, etc etc etc.

 

So yeah, this is just a lame retcon.

They really said so? That's ridicolous. I've decided I don't believe out of lore infos (easy to do, since The Calling, DA:O, World of Thedas and Until We Sleep are consistent with each other). If the writers want me to change my idea, they have to do it in DA:I, I won't listen to lame tweets or q&as.

Damn writers why do they want Fiona to be such a Mary Sue.