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[Gregolian]

Spoilers abound:

 

Spoiler

In short, she's the non-possessed female version of Anders.

She is also extremely passive aggressive about everything too.

[AresKeith]

I already suspected this could be the case..

 

I don't think it makes him a Mary Sue necessarily. He has a lot of intentionally bad qualities too. It does just re-confirm why I always thought playing a Human Noble sucks though. Alistair was always the more developed Human Noble, now with even more story potential than usual.

 

Luckily the Human Warden can pull a Lannister on him

[In Exile]

Nope...

Spoiler

 

He really did not intentionally do anything wrong.

 

I never saw these scenes. Thank you.

 

It does sound like Cullen is opposed to the ROA, and to Meredith massacring the mages, but also that he followed orders in the end.

[leaguer of one]

Adrian killed Pharamond (a former tranquil who preferred death over a return to tranquility), but Lambert lead the Seekers and the templars into a war with the mages. Fiona was arguing in favor of the Fraternities taking a democratic vote to emancipate themselves from the Chantry. And depending on which side the Inquisitor aligns with, the mages can maintain their autonomy and gain a place among the Inquisition.

She killed Pharamond and framed Rhys for it knowing full well Lambet was going to confront him during the mage gathering and force an ultimatum if the mages would not allow Rhys to be arrested(which they did do before). She literally poured oil on the fire.

[Morroian]

Adrian killed Pharamond and framed Rhys to provoke Wynne into changing her stance. We also have companions who have done far, far worse, but some of the same who dislike Adrian like those companions in spite of what they have done.

 

Yeah and............ that makes them hypocrites, it doesn't make Adrian any less of a fanatic who deserves to be possessed by a demon.

[leaguer of one]

Adrian killed Pharamond and framed Rhys to provoke Wynne into changing her stance. We also have companions who have done far, far worse, but some of the same who dislike Adrian like those companions in spite of what they have done.

She also did it get Lambert to go an the offensive. How would kill Pharamond alone get Wynne TO CHANGE STANCES?

[HiroVoid]

So this is now officially the Adrian discussion thread?

[AresKeith]

So this is now officially the Adrian discussion thread?

 

Guess it shows who's more important lol

[leaguer of one]

Yeah and............ that makes them hypocrites, it doesn't make Adrian any less of a fanatic who deserves to be possessed by a demon.

"Everyone despite how justified they think their cause is becomes a hypocrite."

 

-Leto II

[leaguer of one]

Guess it shows who's more important lol

Ok let's get back on track.

[Reznore57]

Well I'm happy about the news.

I was a bit disappointed at the end of "Until we sleep " we didn't get the revelation.

Now I just wonder if Alistair is finally aware of it.

 

I'm not sure I want him to know in Inquisition, because he was a pretty open minded guy to begin with.

But he's a bit bad at dealing with personal stuff.

Since I made him King , I want him to be in a clear state of mind.

[LobselVith8]

She killed Pharamond and framed Rhys for it knowing full well Lambet was going to confront him during the mage gathering and force an ultimatum if the mages would not allow Rhys to be arrested(which they did do before). She literally poured oil on the fire.

 

Pharamond also wanted to die, because (like Karl) he preferred death to tranquility, and this is a system that some of us strongly disagree with on so many levels. I can understand disagreeing with Adrian's actions, but considering how some are willing to overlook the flaws with other companions and their wrongdoing, like Isabela's complicity in slavery, Zevran's assassinations, or Cullen's participation in a Right of Annulment against a population who had done nothing wrong (until the moment the Champion was specifically threatened), I'm having a hard time seeing why Adrian is an exception.

 

I have no problem judging Adrian on her own terms, assuming she shows up in Inquisition. I'd hope she's treated as a three-dimensional character with strengths and flaws, and I would like to see the same with Fiona, assuming she makes an appearance in the storyline. Ideally, only the Red Templars and the Venatori will be the black hat villains.

[Gregolian]

Pharamond also wanted to die, because (like Karl) he preferred death to tranquility, and this is a system that some of us strongly disagree with on so many levels. I can understand disagreeing with Adrian's actions, but considering how some are willing to overlook the flaws with other companions and their wrongdoing, like Isabela's complicity in slavery, Zevran's assassinations, or Cullen's participation in a Right of Annulment against a population who had done nothing wrong (until the moment the Champion was specifically threatened), I'm having a hard time seeing why Adrian is an exception.

 

I have no problem judging Adrian on her own terms, assuming she shows up in Inquisition. I'd hope she's treated as a three-dimensional character with strengths and flaws, and I would like to see the same with Fiona, assuming she makes an appearance in the storyline. Ideally, only the Red Templars and the Venatori will be the black hat villains.

I thought Isabela ran her ship aground and "let them go" so to speak?

[Ryzaki]

If Ferelden finds out, I wonder if they'll try to depose him.

 

I guess it'd depend on whether or not Anora is on the throne with him? I could see it as something she would try to exploit if she's stuck in that tower. (assuming he hadn't killed her yet).

But if they got the beloved monarchs ending I don't see them trying to ruin that.

[LobselVith8]

If Ferelden finds out, I wonder if they'll try to depose him.

 

I doubt there would be any way to prove it. It might end up as a rumor, but King Alistair (especially married to Queen Anora) is quite popular with the people. And with the Inquisition being a potential asset to the Crown, I doubt it would come to that (especially given the likely support of Arl Teagan).

[LobselVith8]

What are you talking about? Don't they have DNA testing?

 

You read too many of Varric's novels.

[Gregolian]

I doubt there would be any way to prove it. It might end up as a rumor, but King Alistair (especially married to Queen Anora) is quite popular with the people. And with the Inquisition being a potential asset to the Crown, I doubt it would come to that (especially given the likely support of Arl Teagan).

Would the Arl and Alistair willingly support a group like the Inquisition though?  I mean, we have seen the Inquisition attacking a Grey Warden fortress (might not be Weishaupt but still).

[Ryzaki]

You read too many of Varric's novels.

 

???

 

I thought they did in one of the books some sort of potion or something? or am I remembering that wrong? Or does that only work on mages?

[leaguer of one]

Pharamond also wanted to die, because (like Karl) he preferred death to tranquility, and this is a system that some of us strongly disagree with on so many levels. I can understand disagreeing with Adrian's actions, but considering how some are willing to overlook the flaws with other companions and their wrongdoing, like Isabela's complicity in slavery, Zevran's assassinations, or Cullen's participation in a Right of Annulment against a population who had done nothing wrong (until the moment the Champion was specifically threatened), I'm having a hard time seeing why Adrian is an exception.

 

I have no problem judging Adrian on her own terms, assuming she shows up in Inquisition. I'd hope she's treated as a three-dimensional character with strengths and flaws, and I would like to see the same with Fiona, assuming she makes an appearance in the storyline. Ideally, only the Red Templars and the Venatori will be the black hat villains.

The issue is not that she killed Pharamond, it what she used his death to do. She did not do it to spare him his fate but to cause conflict. My issue is the fact she did her action on the intent to influence conflict regardless to the consequences and death that my happen. My issue she was full intended to do wrong regardless to what may happen because of it and the fact she intetionly betrayed her closest friend. 

 

Isabela may have been as slave but regretted it and tried to do better. Zevran only did what he was raised to do and still can improve for the better for it. Cullen, if you side with the templers shows his reluctance with the woa and can be influence to spare mages, and even when you side with the mages he later find out he was wrong and tries to improve from it. Adrian is far form these cases. Her action are intent to cause conflict and chaos regardless to who is hurt and does not care about it.

[LobselVith8]

I thought Isabela ran her ship aground and "let them go" so to speak?

 

This was another time. Isabela threw chained slaves overboard into the ocean to escape the Orlesian navy in "Those Who Speak".

 

Would the Arl and Alistair willingly support a group like the Inquisition though?  I mean, we have seen the Inquisition attacking a Grey Warden fortress (might not be Weishaupt but still).

 

If the Inquisition can deal with the Breach (and with Ferelden weakened because of the Fifth Blight), I'd imagine so. It is neutral once the Inquisitor talks the helm, after all.

[Gregolian]

This was another time. Isabela threw chained slaves overboard into the ocean to escape the Orlesian navy in "Those Who Speak".

 

 

If the Inquisition can deal with the Breach (and with Ferelden weakened because of the Fifth Blight), I'd imagine so. It is neutral once the Inquisitor talks the helm, after all.

Forgot about that.  People can change some though, the difference with Cullen, Isabela, Zev for me compared to Adrian is none of them (that we know of) manipulate others to start a giant war.

 

I guess I could see that, to your second point.

[LobselVith8]

???

 

I thought they did in one of the books some sort of potion or something? or am I remembering that wrong? Or does that only work on mages?

 

You mean when Yavana sensed the dragon blood in Alistair? She said, "Your heart beats with the old blood, as well. Where do you think it comes from? It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten. Can you hear it?"

[Ryzaki]

You mean when Yavana sensed the dragon blood in Alistair? She said, "Your heart beats with the old blood, as well. Where do you think it comes from? It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten. Can you hear it?"

 

No the thing with the templar dude and Wynne.