197 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Did you not read my comment? I said they used red lyrium to force their way into the fade. We know from the dwarven Warden that a powerful demon can force a dwarf into the fade so its only logical to believe that another powerful source of magic could do the same.

The issue is that using a source of mage is not the same as being a mage. Even if they did use an outside force to force their way into the fade that still mean they themselves don't have magic. To be a mage the person has to be the source of magic.

[SketchPanic]

Guess you havn't read the opening post; Corypheus said the city was already black and corrupt when they entered.

 

But this also goes back to the very ritual possibly corrupting The Golden City before they had the chance to even enter. By the time they actually pass through, The Golden City may have already turned to black. For this transgression, The Maker cursed them, morphing them into the form we know as Darkspawn.

 

Not the first time in mythos a God got angry at a mortal or group of mortals and damned them to a new, wretched form. Hell, it was practically a pass-time for Zeus and other Greek Gods. lol

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The issue is that using a source of mage is not the same as being a mage. Even if they did use an outside force to force their way into the fade that still mean they themselves don't have magic. To be a mage the person has to be the source of magic.

 

Again I never said they became mages my theory was the red lyrium they used to get into the fade was the source of the city turning black.

[leaguer of one]

Again I never said they became mages my theory was the red lyrium they used to get into the fade was the source of the city turning black.

Ok then but even that has issues. They would need to communicate with demons and dwarves don't even have the ability to communicate across the fade. They don't even have what needed to start to thin the fade. That what makes human and elves more likely to be the source. They at the very least can communicate with demons a cross the veil and have dreamer who can cross the veil. Just having lyrium means nothing with fade manipulation. Added there is a history of connection with demons with  both humans and elves have that show they are the source. Lie with the unbounded.

Spoiler

Ishmael has connection with the elven mirrors.

And Teventer were feeding massive ammount of blood sacrifices to Xebenkeck.

[azarhal]

Remember qunari don't dream as well and they have mages.

 

Qunari can dream, they don't because they are trained not to from what I understand.

 

Qunari are extremely scared of the Fade...

[leaguer of one]

Qunari can dream, they don't because they are trained not to from what I understand.

 

Qunari are extremely scared of the Fade...

1. They never said they are train not to.

2.How can anyone be trained not to dream.

 

Edit.

 

They definitely didn't say they are trained not to dream.

 

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Qunari#Notes

 

"The Qunari claim that they do not dream as humans and elves do. This claim seems to be valid as they are rarely encountered in the Fade."

[In Exile]

Qunari can dream, they don't because they are trained not to from what I understand.

 

Qunari are extremely scared of the Fade...

 

They say they don't dream. Which, since they have mages, we can all call BS on. 

[azarhal]

1. They never said they are train not to.

2.How can anyone be trained not to dream.

 

World of Thedas mentioned that they do not dream like humans and elves do. Not that they don't dream. There are fan speculation on why is that.

 

Qunari Mages are probably made of those who fail to not dream like humans and elves do.

[leaguer of one]

World of Thedas mentioned that they do not dream like humans and elves do. Not that they don't dream. There are fan speculation on why is that.

 

Qunari Mages are probably made of those who fail to not dream like humans and elves do.

But it's made clear they don't go into the fade when they dream, even as mages.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

But it's made clear they don't go into the fade when they dream, even as mages.

Hence 'dream differently'.

 

For my own, personal opinion, there was never a Golden City. It was always Black.

[azarhal]

But it's made clear they don't go into the fade when they dream, even as mages.

 

They are sewing the mouth of their mages because they are afraid they are hosting a demon The only way that can happen is if they access the Fade...

[X Equestris]

Has anyone else noticed the repeated use of beckoning songs in the lore? The Old Gods call to the Darkspawn, Justice says that lyrium makes music, Bartrand rambles about wanting to hear the song from the red lyrium idol again, and Andraste's singing caught the Maker's attention. Think they might be related in some way, possibly to the Fade and the Golden/Black City?

[leaguer of one]

They are sewing the mouth of their mages because they are afraid they are hosting a demon The only way that can happen is if they access the Fade...

Mouths are not need to connect to the fade. Minds are.

[leaguer of one]

Has anyone else noticed the repeated use of beckoning songs in the lore? The Old Gods call to the Darkspawn, Justice says that lyrium makes music, Bartrand rambles about wanting to hear the song from the red lyrium idol again, and Andraste's singing caught the Maker's attention. Think they might be related in some way, possibly to the Fade and the Golden/Black City?

The mention of "Song" in the test of faith in dao.

 

I think that idol in dragon age 2 is a sealed old god.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Ok then but even that has issues. They would need to communicate with demons and dwarves don't even have the ability to communicate across the fade. They don't even have what needed to start to thin the fade. That what makes human and elves more likely to be the source. They at the very least can communicate with demons a cross the veil and have dreamer who can cross the veil. Just having lyrium means nothing with fade manipulation. Added there is a history of connection with demons with  both humans and elves have that show they are the source. Lie with the unbounded.

Spoiler

Ishmael has connection with the elven mirrors.

And Teventer were feeding massive ammount of blood sacrifices to Xebenkeck.

 

Did you play DAO as a dwarf? Dwarves can communicate with demons once they've been forced into the Fade. Also red lyrium is a complete unknown as to what its capable of. It's able to animate statues and make a mundane turn into a super strong superfast lightning shooting paladin. Being a bridge between our world and the spirit world would seem rather simple especially because demons have the ability to do so.

 

Also with red lyrium dwarves could have the ability to manipulate the fade. The truth is we don't know the extent of red lyrium's ability. What we do know is that the Inquisitor can be a dwarf and even with that that dwarf will have a direct connection with the fade being able to manipulate rifts and they even walk out of the fade.... so again I don't know why you're so unmoving on the idea that dwarves can be involved in the fade.

[In Exile]

But it's made clear they don't go into the fade when they dream, even as mages.

 

That's impossible. The connection with the Fade, including dreaming, is quintessential to being a mage. Whatever the reason dwarves can't be mages is tied to their inability to dream and naturally enter the Fade. 

[leaguer of one]

Did you play DAO as a dwarf? Dwarves can communicate with demons once they've been forced into the Fade. Also red lyrium is a complete unknown as to what its capable of. It's able to animate statues and make a mundane turn into a super strong superfast lightning shooting paladin. Being a bridge between our world and the spirit world would seem rather simple especially because demons have the ability to do so.

 

Also with red lyrium dwarves could have the ability to manipulate the fade. The truth is we don't know the extent of red lyrium's ability. What we do know is that the Inquisitor can be a dwarf and even with that that dwarf will have a direct connection with the fade being able to manipulate rifts and they even walk out of the fade.... so again I don't know why you're so unmoving on the idea that dwarves can be involved in the fade.

You missing the point here. The issue is how they can be forced into the fade. Being about to be forced in does not equal to easy communication. A strong amount of magic power is needed and lyrium, red or other wise, can't do that. They need a magic spell or a demon to do it. Hoe can they get a demon  to do that for them when they can't even ask one to do it for them?

 

Red lyrium or lyruim in general does not thin the veil or cross the veil on it's own. If it did the veil would be thin all over the deep roads, which they are not.

[leaguer of one]

That's impossible. The connection with the Fade, including dreaming, is quintessential to being a mage. Whatever the reason dwarves can't be mages is tied to their inability to dream and naturally enter the Fade. 

Yet we don't see qunari or qunari mages in the fade...

[In Exile]

Yet we don't see qunari or qunari mages in the fade...

 

We don't really see any mage ever in the Fade, beside that one who got trapped in DA:O. But being tied to the Fade is what makes you a mage; being severed from it forcefully is what turns mages tranquil, after all. 

[Daerog]

Darkspawn dont dream. Although they use the taint for magic, but they can enter the fade like dwarves. Some ghasts can use magic, but do they dream? They are considered animals. While qunari have mages, and so connected to the Fade (most likely), they could sleep differently. We dont run into qunari or ghast in the Fade normally. If you could, Tevinter Dreamers would hunt qunari and they couldnt stop them due to lack of mage knowledge.

[Daerog]

You missing the point here. The issue is how they can be forced into the fade. Being about to be forced in does not equal to easy communication. A strong amount of magic power is needed and lyrium, red or other wise, can't do that. They need a magic spell or a demon to do it. Hoe can they get a demon  to do that for them when they can't even ask one to do it for them?

 

Red lyrium or lyruim in general does not thin the veil or cross the veil on it's own. If it did the veil would be thin all over the deep roads, which they are not.

 

I just want to mention the abomination/revenant dwarf that was in The Calling. It seemed to me that demons can possess dwarves like anyone else. Demons are living in dwarven ruins and it is not impossible that ancient dwarves could communicate with demons.

 

Not really supporting or discouraging the theory, just wanted to mention this.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, nobody knew about red lyrium either, and it was sitting in the Primeval Thaig for millennia. It's highly possible that dwarves did indeed have magic once upon a time.

 

Or they might not even have been dwarves back then.

 

Who was it who said in ancient Arlathan, there were only elves in Thedas?

 

We could well have some magical race-forming in the forgotten ancient past. The races of Thedas may be magical alterations of eachother: we sort-of already know this via how 'elven' is a quasi-magic trait vis-a-vis human, but maybe dwarf applies as well?

[Palidane]

Uhh guys, didn't David Gaider explicitly confirm that the Golden City was, in fact, golden before the Magisters reached it?

[Mirrman70]

maybe the golden city wasn't the throne to the maker but actually a means of sealing the taint and when the Tevinter Magisters entered they accidentally broke the seal. Maybe Dumat thought he could control/use the taint to become greater than the maker but instead was controlled by it....