302 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

It does when she's running around in battle on the front of the lines.

Is she, though?

The player controls her behaviour in combat. This has been the basis for my complaint about the iconic look from the beginning. You can make Isabela a front-line fighter, but you can't put her in armour? You can put any DAO party member in any armour you like, which makes sense because you decide why they might need it. You could also change weapons and skills. You could make Sten an archer - massive armour wouldn't make sense for him then. You can tank with Leliana, do giving her heavy armour makes sense.

As long as we're expected to decide how Cassandra behaves in combat, it makes no sense to deny us control over her equipment.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Iconic looks are good.

You gain literally nothing from the iconic looks. You would still have the option to keep that character's default appearance (as you could with Morrigan in DAO). Does being forced to do that help you in any way?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Even Princess Leia's slave outfit?

There were good mods for that sort of thing in DAO.

But it will be much harder to do that in DAI if the mechanism for displaying disparate armour shapes on the characters isn't built in.

The costs to the player for the iconic looks are extremely high, and I don't see any real benefits at all.

[deuce985]

There were good mods for that sort of thing in DAO.

But it will be much harder to do that in DAI if the mechanism for displaying disparate armour shapes on the characters isn't built in.

The costs to the player for the iconic looks are extremely high, and I don't see any real benefits at all.

That's because you're only seeing it from a gameplay angle. Some people don't mind sacrificing things like this in the gameplay if it means they get more out of their personalities. Some people only want to focus on their companion's personality and enjoy the story. Some people want total control over their gameplay experience while also enjoying the story. Insert any type of player I failed to mention here(which I'm sure is a lot). People want different things in their games. Bioware has to find a compromise somewhere because they're not catering to one specific player. It's clear that with this system they tried to find something between DAO/DA2 to please various types of players.

 

You don't see benefits to it because it's not your preferred way to play the game and nothing is wrong with that. I see where you're coming from but I personally don't think it's a big deal to me personally.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's because you're only seeing it from a gameplay angle. Some people don't mind sacrificing things like this in the gameplay if it means they get more out of their personalities. Some people only want to focus on their companion's personality and enjoy the story. Some people want total control over their gameplay experience while also enjoying the story. Insert any type of player I failed to mention here(which I'm sure is a lot). People want different things in their games. Bioware has to find a compromise somewhere because they're not catering to one specific player. It's clear that with this system they tried to find something between DAO/DA2 to please various types of players.

 

You don't see benefits to it because it's not your preferred way to play the game and nothing is wrong with that. I see where you're coming from but I personally don't think it's a big deal to me personally.

But you can have the iconic look without forcing it on others, as with Morrigan in DAO.  That's my point.

 

Everyone wins if the game works like DAO did with Morrigan.

 

And there is only one angle.  The in-game reality is the in-game reality.

[In Exile]

But you can have the iconic look without forcing it on others, as with Morrigan in DAO.  That's my point.

 

Everyone wins if the game works like DAO did with Morrigan.

 

And there is only one angle.  The in-game reality is the in-game reality.

 

No, Morrigan in DA:O was a horrible approach. It worked only because mage "armour" had no actual damage resistance, and because the bonuses on the armour you did find were so insignificant as to be completely negligible. 

 

Morrigan's robes worked only because, basically, they were level appropriate armour until the late mid-game or the endgame. 

If the Warden Longsword that Alistair started with was a unique model, it would have already been inferior by the end of Lothering, and by the endgame it would cost a minimum of 8 or so points of basic damage, along with substantial points in bonus damage from either runes or passive bonuses.

[In Exile]

I recall once Chris Priestly objected to that design. He thought it important that players have to choose between two priorities in conflict, and I agree with him.

All the design you describe does is pander to players who are making ooc gameplay decisions.

The fact that armour has such statistical bonuses, and scales to such an absurd degree over the game - i.e., for near worthless at level 1 to literally divine at level 20 - is an OOC problem all on its own, as the mechanics are completely extrinsic to the world the characters inhabit. 

[In Exile]

Is she, though?

The player controls her behaviour in combat. This has been the basis for my complaint about the iconic look from the beginning. You can make Isabela a front-line fighter, but you can't put her in armour? You can put any DAO party member in any armour you like, which makes sense because you decide why they might need it. You could also change weapons and skills. You could make Sten an archer - massive armour wouldn't make sense for him then. You can tank with Leliana, do giving her heavy armour makes sense.

As long as we're expected to decide how Cassandra behaves in combat, it makes no sense to deny us control over her equipment.

 

We know that you don't control them when you give them armour. There is dialogue in DA that confirms it. When Morrigan gives you the ring, she explicitly references you giving them armour to equip. 

 

Insofar as the setting is concerned, the characters dressed themselves as the behest of the Warden. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, Morrigan in DA:O was a horrible approach. It worked only because mage "armour" had no actual damage resistance, and because the bonuses on the armour you did find were so insignificant as to be completely negligible. 

 

Morrigan's robes worked only because, basically, they were level appropriate armour until the late mid-game or the endgame. 

If the Warden Longsword that Alistair started with was a unique model, it would have already been inferior by the end of Lothering, and by the endgame it would cost a minimum of 8 or so points of basic damage, along with substantial points in bonus damage from either runes or passive bonuses.

But like with Morrigan, the game could offer apparently identical replacements periodically throughout the game.

 

If you want Morrigan to wear better equipment, but still look the same, you can, because there is a better version of her robes available.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The fact that armour has such statistical bonuses, and scales to such an absurd degree over the game - i.e., for near worthless at level 1 to literally divine at level 20 - is an OOC problem all on its own, as the mechanics are completely extrinsic to the world the characters inhabit. 

Yes it is, but that's a different problem.

 

And still one that should be addressed.

[Sylvius the Mad]

We know that you don't control them when you give them armour. There is dialogue in DA that confirms it. When Morrigan gives you the ring, she explicitly references you giving them armour to equip. 

 

Insofar as the setting is concerned, the characters dressed themselves as the behest of the Warden. 

Your insistence on believing the characters' utterances to be infallible arbiters of the in-game reality has always astounded me.

[d4rk fallen]

For me I really like being able to customize my character so I'm intrigued by what little info there has been.. As for changing outfits or equipment it really depends on the game, I rarely wanted to or had the chance to use lots of outfits in any dragon age game as I didn't really care for most of the options. Now when it comes Fallout series, Elder Scrolls & Dragons Dogma I always enjoy changing equipment often... Think in the end the only determining factors will be amount of items/options & the ease of collecting them..

[Chrom72]

I mean if we have to go to a workbench or something in order to swap out pieces.

 

What I don't get is the offense at there being more or less armor slots in a game. So long as it's well designed, what bleeding difference does it make? Witcher 2's four armor slots (if you count the trophy) doesn't make it less of a good RPG than Morrowind's silly un-matching pauldrons and bazzilion slots. What's important is that there is variety and customization, and it seems Bioware intends to deliver on that front.

Morrowind is one of my favorite games ever, but it was really irritating needing 6 total pieces of armor to take care of shoulders, gloves, and boots. At the least they can be split up into just 3 different pairing pieces of armor.

[ElitePinecone]

The fact that armour has such statistical bonuses, and scales to such an absurd degree over the game - i.e., for near worthless at level 1 to literally divine at level 20 - is an OOC problem all on its own, as the mechanics are completely extrinsic to the world the characters inhabit. 

 

That's a necessary abstraction due to the demands of gameplay, though. 

 

I mean, attributes and statistics themselves have no meaning, except that the game requires a way to model a piece of armour's defensive ability. 

 

I don't see it as a problem. 

[Mukora]

I don't see the big deal. Yeah, companions have iconic appearances, but they still change based on the armor you give them. One of the concept arts showed Cassandra in what looked like pretty rogueish armour.

And Warriors will always be front-line fighters. You can't give them bows. So it makes sense if they do tend to stick with heavier armour looks.

[Rawgrim]

I don't see the big deal. Yeah, companions have iconic appearances, but they still change based on the armor you give them. One of the concept arts showed Cassandra in what looked like pretty rogueish armour.

And Warriors will always be front-line fighters. You can't give them bows. So it makes sense if they do tend to stick with heavier armour looks.

 

Archers are warriors too, part of the military. Being a warrior jut means the character is that by profession. What weapon, ranged or close combat, he uses is irrellevant. An army would need ranged units too. In 90 percent of the rpgs out there, an archer is a warrior class.

[Vapaa]

But like with Morrigan, the game could offer apparently identical replacements periodically throughout the game.

 

If you want Morrigan to wear better equipment, but still look the same, you can, because there is a better version of her robes available.

 

Isn't that exactly what the current system is ? Retaining a certain look but allowing to up the stats via crafting ?

[Elhanan]

But you could already do that in DAO, and it didn't have iconic looks.

Most players never dressed Morrigan in anything other than her unique robes. And they did that without being forced to do it.

So why do you need to be forced to do it now?

I often placed Morrigan in DLC robes or armor; do not know what most chose to do. But not many want the freedom to use inferior choices, so allowing mods to do this seems reasonable rather than hard code it into Vanilla.

[Gtdef]

But like with Morrigan, the game could offer apparently identical replacements periodically throughout the game.

 

If you want Morrigan to wear better equipment, but still look the same, you can, because there is a better version of her robes available.

 

 

Morrigan's improved version is still bad compared to what you can find in the game. What he said is because it's armor for mages and it's mostly irrelevant, the difference isn't that big. But if instead it was a weapon for a melee character then you wouldn't be able to keep it cause weapons are paramount to the effectveness of a character.

[archav3n]

Only 3 equipment slot? That's is indeed disappointing if true. Please add in:

 

1. gloves

2. boots.

3. pants.

4. shoulder pads

5. cloaks?

 

What's the point of restriction again?

[ElitePinecone]

Only 3 equipment slot? That's is indeed disappointing if true. Please add in:

 

1. gloves

2. boots.

3. pants.

4. shoulder pads

5. cloaks?

 

What's the point of restriction again?

 

The mods should change the title of this thread if people are just going to post without reading further into it.

 

(Or at least without reading the Bioware posts.)

[Deflagratio]

I don't see the big deal. Yeah, companions have iconic appearances, but they still change based on the armor you give them. One of the concept arts showed Cassandra in what looked like pretty rogueish armour.

And Warriors will always be front-line fighters. You can't give them bows. So it makes sense if they do tend to stick with heavier armour looks.

 

 

I personally prefer to think of it as a "Custom Fit" for the armor, rather than a "Trademark look." The latter suggests something closer to Morrigan or the DA2 companions. Cassandra herself has been shown in Heavy Plate and a light Brigandine Duster, so the variety in what they call "Trademark Look" is quite broad, too broad to serve that term in my opinion.

 

The advantage of thinking this way is that from a credibility standpoint, every individual person is usually fitted for their armor specially. The style and fit of particular armors is just how any individual NPC prefers to be able to move around in it, and what their muscle memory is tuned for.

[Direwolf0294]

How... bland. That's the best word I can think of for it. I'm all for streamlining clunky systems, but there's a line, and it seems like BioWare has crossed it. That sort of one slot design worked for ME because Shepard's armor was basically a powersuit—you couldn't imagine someone like the Master Chief going into battle wearing mismatched gauntlets and pants for example—but for a fantasy game it just doesn't fit.

[adorkable-panda]

Yeah, new readers should click the *show only bioware posts button* before they post xD

[Innsmouth Dweller]

huh... at first glance it looks bad but it does makes sense if it can be modified with crafting system. i hope you can uncraft something from the armour and if you can - it's basicaly slots within slots console-friendly approach (on PC it translates to 'five mouse clicks instead of one')