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The Other Dimension Of Racial Diversity


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#76
Nyeredzi

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I don't like Rivain, like the reason why they are here on Thedas. They are here to be the tolkein blacks. They are criminals, and their race is always in poverty. Apparently black culture is a ghetto, or the times in the Colonial/Victorian era when they were part of pirate crews with no homeland since they would be caught and terrorized where ever they stayed.

 

Thedas is Europe in the Medieval era, the blacks in Medieval Europe where the invaders from north African, the Muslims, the Moors, and they were not what the Rivaini are, but what the Qunari are. The Rivaini represent the Medieval Spanish rather than the medieval blacks. Its hard to accept, maybe that is why they were changed. In DAO it is clear that Duncan and Isabella don't look black, but looked rather Spanish. And Sten was the only person who looked a black.

 

The media is wrong



#77
General TSAR

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Does anyone else dislike the term people of color?

They are criminals, and their race is always in poverty. Apparently black culture is a ghetto, or the times in the Colonial/Victorian era when they were part of pirate crews with no homeland since they would be caught and terrorized where ever they stayed.

Guess what? You just described the entire Elven Race. Poverty and societal instability is not a phenomena unique to one race or society.

 

I don't like Rivain, like the reason why they are here on Thedas. They are here to be the tolkein blacks. 

Really? I thought Rivain was meant to show that not all human states are Andrastian, hate Elves, and have wealth imbalance.

 

Maybe you should learn more about Rivain before making generalizations. 



#78
Maria Caliban

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Not really. Why do you dislike it?

#79
daveliam

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I don't like Rivain, like the reason why they are here on Thedas. They are here to be the tolkein blacks. They are criminals, and their race is always in poverty. Apparently black culture is a ghetto, or the times in the Colonial/Victorian era when they were part of pirate crews with no homeland since they would be caught and terrorized where ever they stayed.

 

Thedas is Europe in the Medieval era, the blacks in Medieval Europe where the invaders from north African, the Muslims, the Moors, and they were not what the Rivaini are, but what the Qunari are. The Rivaini represent the Medieval Spanish rather than the medieval blacks. Its hard to accept, maybe that is why they were changed. In DAO it is clear that Duncan and Isabella don't look black, but looked rather Spanish. And Sten was the only person who looked a black.

 

The media is wrong

 

Do we know enough about Rivain to make these statements yet?



#80
Burricho

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The chasind. Just saying. But i am all for more racial representation.



#81
mikeymoonshine

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I don't like Rivain, like the reason why they are here on Thedas. They are here to be the tolkein blacks. They are criminals, and their race is always in poverty. Apparently black culture is a ghetto, or the times in the Colonial/Victorian era when they were part of pirate crews with no homeland since they would be caught and terrorized where ever they stayed.

 

Thedas is Europe in the Medieval era, the blacks in Medieval Europe where the invaders from north African, the Muslims, the Moors, and they were not what the Rivaini are, but what the Qunari are. The Rivaini represent the Medieval Spanish rather than the medieval blacks. Its hard to accept, maybe that is why they were changed. In DAO it is clear that Duncan and Isabella don't look black, but looked rather Spanish. And Sten was the only person who looked a black.

 

The media is wrong

 

Tervinter and Orlais sound worse than Rivain to me. Also is this even accurate? We don't know that much about Rivain. 



#82
Xilizhra

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Well, that's because of the Eclispe engine's poor ability to render dark skin color correctly. Trust me, if Isabella and Duncan were in DAI, they look black.

Duncan is half-Rivaini; he might look biracial, but wouldn't be wholly black by any means.



#83
Devtek

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Er, Thailand, Vietnam, and Southern Asia is jungle.....And Africa, Africa is savanna and deserts...

 

believe me, there are no lions in jungles

 

Errrrr the mongols aren't from Thailand Vietnam or Southern Asia...and nothing I said had anything to do with lions. Their environment (Steppes) had a direct impact on the development of their nomadic and horse driven culture, which an island jungle would not.  The traditional Mongol culture was synonymous with horses, if you had a culture based on them without horses you wouldn't have Mongols.  Base more fictional cultures on real life ones if you must, but at least do it with a little thought first.

 

Although someone bringing up gunpowder did give me an evil idea of how "mongols on par vollen" would = qunari would having gunpowder.  Fex invade par vollen from somewhere else, steal gunpowder from whoever was there first, then the qunari come and take it from the fex...(for those that don't know gunpower flow: China -> Mongols -> Islamic states -> Europe) But I digress...



#84
Lucijenifer

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I don't like Rivain, like the reason why they are here on Thedas. They are here to be the tolkein blacks. They are criminals, and their race is always in poverty. Apparently black culture is a ghetto, or the times in the Colonial/Victorian era when they were part of pirate crews with no homeland since they would be caught and terrorized where ever they stayed.

 

Thedas is Europe in the Medieval era, the blacks in Medieval Europe where the invaders from north African, the Muslims, the Moors, and they were not what the Rivaini are, but what the Qunari are. The Rivaini represent the Medieval Spanish rather than the medieval blacks. Its hard to accept, maybe that is why they were changed. In DAO it is clear that Duncan and Isabella don't look black, but looked rather Spanish. And Sten was the only person who looked a black.

 

The media is wrong

 

The only Rivaini criminal I recall is Isabela.

 

Actually, what we do know is that the Rivaini show a great deal of respect for elves in comparison to the other nations of Thedas, they aren't fervent believers of the Chantry and they were in fact allowed to let their mages wander free and do as they please, until the recent troubles arose. They're possibly the most socially enlightened and respectful nation in all of Thedas.

 

There was no longer a need for it but there is also no clear reason why humans would lose it. There isn't really a significant benefit to not having it in cold climates and not every cold climate is populated with white people. Darker skin and hair genes are also more dominant and traits don't just leave when you no longer need them.

 

The sun is just as good to us as it is bad. Although it has the potential to harm and damage us, exposure to the sun does stimulate the creation of important nutrients your body requires for a healthy life. As an example, Vitamin D is required for strong and healthy bones and the vast majority of Vitamin D in our bodies is created by exposure to sunlight. A lack of Vitamin D can lead to rickets and osteomalacia. In short, soft, weak and deformed bones.

Now for the interesting part.

 

The paler you are, the better your skin is at producing Vitamin D. The sun's strength also has an impact on Vitamin D production. In cold and cloudy regions, darker skin isn't adapted to produce Vitamin D while paler skin is. In hot and sunny regions, paler skin isn't adapted to enduring the onslaught of the sun's light while darker skin is. As such, when humanity migrated away from the equator, those with naturally darker skin would have had a harder time growing up than those with paler skin, with bone deformities caused by the lack of Vitamin D. This would have made it much more difficult for them to survive, let alone breed while those with naturally paler skin had a much better time in the colder regions of the Earth, generating Vitamin D much more easily and suffering no deformation.

 

As such, my personal theory is that darker skin was, well... bred out the further you go from the equator, due to paler skin being more efficient at generating Vitamin D. Even in the modern day, it's advised that darker-skinned children are given Vitamin D supplements when growing up in order to stave off any potential weakness in the bones.

 

Sorry for the tangent!


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#85
KC_Prototype

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Rivaini is like the Spain under Muslim occupation, while Antiva is the Spain under Christian occupation.
 
The Muslims who invaded Spain were North African Muslims along with Arab Muslims. After being conquered, Spain became ruled by the African Muslims for almost 800 years.
 
 
 
The Qunari are the Arab Muslims, influencing the Rivaini/North Africans.
 
Or
 
The Arabs and the North Africans are the Kossith Qunari.
 
The horned pale ones being the Arabs, while the hornless darker ones are the North Africans.
 
The Rivaini are the Spanish-Europeans (which are the Thedasians), and they are being converted into Muslims (the Qun) by the Arabs and North Africans Muslims (which are the Kossith Qunari). 

 

I think it's the first one.



#86
KC_Prototype

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Duncan is half-Rivaini; he might look biracial, but wouldn't be wholly black by any means.

Where'd you get this? I thought his parents were from Rivain and he was born in Highever?



#87
Devtek

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Where'd you get this? I thought his parents were from Rivain and he was born in Highever?

His father was Ferelden (from The Calling)



#88
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I don't like Rivain, like the reason why they are here on Thedas. They are here to be the tolkein blacks. They are criminals, and their race is always in poverty. Apparently black culture is a ghetto, or the times in the Colonial/Victorian era when they were part of pirate crews with no homeland since they would be caught and terrorized where ever they stayed.

 

I disagree... Nyredezi. While Isabella is a... privateer, that's probably the only depiction of a Rivaini criminal we've had so far. Duncan was raised between Orlais and Ferelden so he wouldn't be an accurate reflection of Rivaini culture. While I agree there weren't many PoC I get the vibe that it was due engine restrictions. And I damn well know you've read up on Rivaini lore. Because you're a TES lore buff like myself. And Rivain arguably has the most interesting lore and culture in all of Thedas. An east meets west analogue of the real world with fantasy weirdness thrown in for good measure. The Natural Order is probably the least hostile belief structure in all of Thedas and their lax attitude towards magic probably makes them hella powerful on that front as well. 

 

I support this! Also, you're family are Afro decedents? Cool.

 

Well I am too. I'm light-skinned cause I took after my pops. 


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#89
kalikit

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I don't know where Vivienne comes from. I'd like to see more black people in Thedas, but I don't really expect it. Humans are apparently migrants to Thedas. It's unclear how recent this is, but it's at least several thousand years. Perhaps, much like Earth, most black and Asian people (and the majority of humans) are still on humanity's original continent, with immunities to (fantasy) Old World diseases which will decimate the defenseless, mostly white/Middle-Eastern/North African Thedosians once they contact each other. One can only hope!


Well, it would actually be mutual disastrous disease sharing. The reason why Europeans wiped out many natives of the Western Hemisphere was because the natives didn't have the livestock the same way those of Europe, Africa and the rest of the Eastern Hemisphere had and did not depend on livestock in the same intensity as the East. All the "old world" diseases, like small pox, came from contact with cattle, pigs, chickens, goats and sheep. There was no mutually disastrous disease sharing in real life because the "new world" hadn't developed animal based diseases like the "old world" did.

Now, the people of Thedas are heavily dependent on livestock. So they have a disease farm, if the "old world" is similarly dependent on livestock and the species are different, both groups would be spreading mass plagues to each other.

I find that to be more interesting, as both groups would start pointing fingers at each other. They'd both be right, blaming the other group for killing their people with a plague. Kind of fits the whole feel of the setting, both sides having their points but ultimately they don't have the full picture.

#90
X Equestris

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On the subject of the lack of Asian equivalent peoples in Thedas, we have yet to meet anyone from the Donarks. If there were any Asian group on the continent, I expect it would be there.

#91
Maria Caliban

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I disagree... Nyredezi.


Thank you for the heads up.

#92
Undead Han

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I'm sorry but...nooooooooo. A people based on a nomadic, horse centric culture stuck on a jungle & rain forest filled island would not work. No Mongol would lose to a qunari anyways...

 

Who said the Fex have to be a nomadic horse-centic culture? And there is more to Mongol culture than just their horses.

 

If the Fex were based on the Mongols they would only be used as a very loose inspiration, just as the people of Ferelden aren't exactly British and the Orlesians aren't exactly French.



#93
tmp7704

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Why did the Eclipse engine not render dark skin properly? Because BioWare's engineers built it to render pale skin.

This is probably unfair way to put it. The old engine had its limitations in how it'd render, clip and/or dither colour ranges, but it's much more likely that had to do with being limited by hardware (older graphics cards not widely supporting high precision colour data that'd be needed to preserve subtle shadings and such) and I doubt there was any specific concern whether pale skin of all things could be rendered properly, vs just being able to half-reasonably render all things ranging from dark caves to bright outdoors, at all.

#94
Jedi Master of Orion

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Does anyone else dislike the term people of color?

 

To be honest, I was often a little uncomfortable saying it. "Colored Person" is considered a slur and "Person of color" is almost literally the same phrase with an "of" in the middle.



#95
In Exile

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To be honest, I was often a little uncomfortable saying it. "Colored Person" is considered a slur and "Person of color" is almost literally the same phrase with an "of" in the middle.

I think it has an uncomfortable "white is default" implication, like the term "visible minority" (which is common in Canada, and something we're debating as the term becomes outright wrong in some of our most populous metropolises). 


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#96
Xilizhra

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I think it has an uncomfortable "white is default" implication, like the term "visible minority" (which is common in Canada, and something we're debating as the term becomes outright wrong in some of our most populous metropolises). 

The term I'd prefer to use is "nonwhite," personally.



#97
Who Knows

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There's also the verbage and past tense, even if it's not intended that way. Some people don't like "transgendered" either, because of what I mentioned.

 

You could think of it like using "straighted" to describe heterosexual people or "whited" to describe white people. If nothing else it sounds weird.



#98
In Exile

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The term I'd prefer to use is "nonwhite," personally.

 

I agree, though as an immigrant to NA I've honestly never understood what counts as "white". I've been classed into and out of that box depending on who I was talking to about it. 



#99
Xilizhra

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I agree, though as an immigrant to NA I've honestly never understood what counts as "white". I've been classed into and out of that box depending on who I was talking to about it. 

From what I can tell, almost anyone European, and Latin ethnicities when people feel like it.



#100
In Exile

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From what I can tell, almost anyone European, and Latin ethnicities when people feel like it.

 

That's what I've encountered ethnicity, but I've met a lot of people that think "white" is about culture, too, so it takes more than just being from Europe to count.