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[Dean_the_Young]

 

I disagree... Nyredezi. While Isabella is a... privateer, that's probably the only depiction of a Rivaini criminal we've had so far. Duncan was raised between Orlais and Ferelden so he wouldn't be an accurate reflection of Rivaini culture. While I agree there weren't many PoC I get the vibe that it was due engine restrictions. And I damn well know you've read up on Rivaini lore. Because you're a TES lore buff like myself. And Rivain arguably has the most interesting lore and culture in all of Thedas. An east meets west analogue of the real world with fantasy weirdness thrown in for good measure. The Natural Order is probably the least hostile belief structure in all of Thedas and their lax attitude towards magic probably makes them hella powerful on that front as well. 

 

Powerful? Perhaps. Uncaring is also a distinct possibility. The reputation of Rivaini witches has been compared to forces of nature: not a benign or benevolent start.

 

Rivaini culture may not be hostile towards various identities, but that's a far cry from being safe and accepting or any form of egaltarianism.

[Maria Caliban]

It's a dark fantasy setting.

I'm sure the Rivani have all sorts of bad things happening.

[Dean_the_Young]

That's what I've encountered ethnicity, but I've met a lot of people that think "white" is about culture, too, so it takes more than just being from Europe to count. 

There's even a movement within some minorities of condemning someone for 'acting white.'

[tmp7704]

That's what I've encountered ethnicity, but I've met a lot of people that think "white" is about culture, too, so it takes more than just being from Europe to count.

From what I could see, it largely boils down to the ethnicity of the person who is making the call -- as a rule of thumb, the farther they're from the "WASP" origin, the more inclusive they're about who they'd consider "white", often if just to avoid excluding themselves from that group. Political views might play a role in that, too.

or, as cartoons as far as hundred years ago would put it:

[In Exile]

From what I could see, it largely boils down to the ethnicity of the person who is making the call -- as a rule of thumb, the farther they're from the "WASP" origin, the more inclusive they're about who they'd consider "white", often if just to avoid excluding themselves from that group. Political views might play a role in that, too.

 

That makes a lot of sense. Looking back, that's definitely how it's broken down - as my peers became more WASP-y, their tendency to consider me non-white shot up exponentially. As did their ability to catch my - basically non-existence - accent, interestingly enough. 

[kalikit]

From what I could see, it largely boils down to the ethnicity of the person who is making the call -- as a rule of thumb, the farther they're from the "WASP" origin, the more inclusive they're about who they'd consider "white", often if just to avoid excluding themselves from that group. Political views might play a role in that, too.

or, as cartoons as far as hundred years ago would put it:

[picture going to be mentioned by me]

Oh hey, that exact picture was used in my history class.

In another class that same term, we had to write a paper on an article asking whether Irish people were considered "white "(which depended on the time period) by American (or rather, WASP) standards. Italians were also mentioned because Catholicism.

[BioWareM0d13]

To be honest, I was often a little uncomfortable saying it. "Colored Person" is considered a slur and "Person of color" is almost literally the same phrase with an "of" in the middle.

 

Not to mention inaccurate. All people have color.

 

But then labels like 'white' or 'black' aren't exactly accurate descriptions either.

[Maria Caliban]

Some people are more white than others.

No, I have never had a problem with the term 'person of color.' Language is arbitrary. I call people whatever they want to be called and avoid what they want avoided.

[Nyeredzi]

Thank you for the heads up.

I changed ma name, though it is the same account...problem?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Not to mention inaccurate. All people have color.

 

But then labels like 'white' or 'black' aren't exactly accurate descriptions either.

 

Hah, actually when I was a kid I was very confused by the term "colored person" for that very reason. I knew it was a term for either black or white people but wasn't sure which one.

[Nyeredzi]

Aight, let's stop this before THAT GUY arrives...

[efd731]

Was careless of me to pass over the second post! (also to use that "where Vivienne comes from" language but it's already been quoted a few times. I know she's Orlesian.)

I have a few scattered thoughts about race and diversity in Thedas. They don't classify humans racially like we do, which is fair enough, because race in the Western world has some fairly specific history behind it. Humans, elves, and dwarves are considered different races. (is that supposed to mean species, too?) They can reproduce with each other (or at least, both can with humans). Elf-blooded humans are considered fully human, and not supposed to look like elves, even though Feynriel totally does. Is Feynriel's appearance a mistake? If not, do elves pass no phenotypical traits on to their children with humans? If an elf of color had a child with a white human, would that child just look white? I've "spoiler" "tagged" the following "question" because some people might care:

Spoiler

Alistair's mother was an elf. Was Alistair supposed to be a person of color, but they just couldn't render it with the old engine?

Yes. Yes. The answer to all of those questions is "yes."

Uuummmm, pretty sure alistair being non white is just headcanon. If a dev said otherwise feel free to correct
Edit: I mean, that is kinda his thing. He's the super innocent white bread "guy next door" character.

[Pierce Miller]

It's my personal belief that Thedas is in fact a continent, not an entire world. Consider what our ancestors thought way back in the middle ages and you can see why I'd believe this. Also Thedas is a fictional representation of Europe and thus full of white people.

[Palidane]

You know, it's funny how this argument always goes in a circle.

"Bioware, why is all Thedas white? We need some black/Asian people up in here!"

"But it would be completely unrealistic if a bunch of different ethnicities came from one continent!"

"More unrealistic then DRAGONS?"

"Well, this setting is based on Medieval Europe, which everyone knows was whiter than #starbucks!"

"Nuhuh! That's historical whitewashing! Between all the traders and slaves and stuff, Europe was more colorful than a bag of freaking Skittles!"

 

What's interesting, though, is this argument only applies to majority white settings. The logic never really holds up when applied to, say, Jade Empire.

"Yo, Bioware, what's with all the asians? All we got is this one horrendous stereotype of a white guy! We need some diversity!"

"But it would be completely unrealistic if a bunch of different ethnicites came from one island!"

"More unrealistic than EASTERN DRAGONS?"

"Well, this setting is based on Ancient China, which everyone knows had more Asians than a mathlete tournament!"

"Nuhu! That's historical (yellow-washing?)! Between all the traders and merchants and stuff, China was more colorful than a box of crayons!"

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's my personal belief that Thedas is in fact a continent, not an entire world. Consider what our ancestors thought way back in the middle ages and you can see why I'd believe this. Also Thedas is a fictional representation of Europe and thus full of white people.

 

Of course it's not the whole world. Even the inhabitants of Thedas know it isn't.

[mikeymoonshine]

The sun is just as good to us as it is bad. Although it has the potential to harm and damage us, exposure to the sun does stimulate the creation of important nutrients your body requires for a healthy life. As an example, Vitamin D is required for strong and healthy bones and the vast majority of Vitamin D in our bodies is created by exposure to sunlight. A lack of Vitamin D can lead to rickets and osteomalacia. In short, soft, weak and deformed bones.

Now for the interesting part.

 

The paler you are, the better your skin is at producing Vitamin D. The sun's strength also has an impact on Vitamin D production. In cold and cloudy regions, darker skin isn't adapted to produce Vitamin D while paler skin is. In hot and sunny regions, paler skin isn't adapted to enduring the onslaught of the sun's light while darker skin is. As such, when humanity migrated away from the equator, those with naturally darker skin would have had a harder time growing up than those with paler skin, with bone deformities caused by the lack of Vitamin D. This would have made it much more difficult for them to survive, let alone breed while those with naturally paler skin had a much better time in the colder regions of the Earth, generating Vitamin D much more easily and suffering no deformation.

 

As such, my personal theory is that darker skin was, well... bred out the further you go from the equator, due to paler skin being more efficient at generating Vitamin D. Even in the modern day, it's advised that darker-skinned children are given Vitamin D supplements when growing up in order to stave off any potential weakness in the bones.

 

Sorry for the tangent!

 

No, no that was very interesting. It's most likely something like that with maybe a few other causes. My point was nobody is sure, some scientists argue other influences. 

[mikeymoonshine]

You know, it's funny how this argument always goes in a circle.

"Bioware, why is all Thedas white? We need some black/Asian people up in here!"

"But it would be completely unrealistic if a bunch of different ethnicities came from one continent!"

"More unrealistic then DRAGONS?"

"Well, this setting is based on Medieval Europe, which everyone knows was whiter than #starbucks!"

"Nuhuh! That's historical whitewashing! Between all the traders and slaves and stuff, Europe was more colorful than a bag of freaking Skittles!"

 

What's interesting, though, is this argument only applies to majority white settings. The logic never really holds up when applied to, say, Jade Empire.

"Yo, Bioware, what's with all the asians? All we got is this one horrendous stereotype of a white guy! We need some diversity!"

"But it would be completely unrealistic if a bunch of different ethnicites came from one island!"

"More unrealistic than EASTERN DRAGONS?"

"Well, this setting is based on Ancient China, which everyone knows had more Asians than a mathlete tournament!"

"Nuhu! That's historical (yellow-washing?)! Between all the traders and merchants and stuff, China was more colorful than a box of crayons!"

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think China ever had  as much ethnic diversity as Europe. 

 

Anyway I'm all for more ethnic diversity in games (especially rpg's). 

[Palidane]

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think China ever had  as much ethnic diversity as Europe. 

 

Anyway I'm all for more ethnic diversity in games (especially rpg's). 

Depends on how you define ethnic. Europe had about the same proportion of Europeans as China had Chinese, it's just that there is more variance in the appearance of Europeans. Northern Europeans look very different from Southern Europeans, while Northern and Southern Chinese look basically the same, at least to my knowledge.

[Shihku7]

Apologies for reviving an ancient thread, I found this topic because some guy on GameFAQs was upset that a black companion was included in Inquisition (Vivienne)

 

  Anyway I think the larger issue is that media marketing/demographic issues is why we are talking about racial diversity in Dragon Age instead of Jade Empire. Dragon Age continues to have games made for it for a variety of reasons, but it can't be denied that having a game set in Old Europe is far more marketable than a game set in Old Asia. And the racial make up of these Old places, and each game series' customer base, absolutely plays a factor in whether or not games sell. Jade Empire was set in Old Asia, featured an East Asian cast. IMO that absolutely contributed to the game's more muted popularity and helped make it a one-game series. Had the game been more diverse in setting and cast it probably would've been an easier sell.

 

Being set in a mythological Europe automatically makes the Dragon Age series far more likely to be popular with Western gamers than Jade Empire. Whites make up most of the West, obviously have the historical connection to Europe, and white males have more expendable income than other groups. At the same time, Western wealth, imperialism of indigenous populations, and former slavery policies is why a non-white population is so common in many Western countries. Which, in turn, results in a lot of  shared interest in European mythology among many racial groups. In the US, Pew Research says 43% of the 18-to-33 year old demographic is non-white. And their primary language is English. That 18-to-33 year old demographic has got to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest markets for video games. If you make a game entirely about white people, and nearly half your target demo is non-white, you've automatically lost some customers. So you've got some incongrous elements here, if that's the right way to put it. Old Europe is a more marketable setting than any other mythological setting, but at the same time, a huge and growing portion of the video gamer demographic has a minimal connection to Old Europe. Plus we should probably acknowledge that most blacks and Latinos are of Christian faith, and Dragon Age's exploration of Christian issues is pretty important too.

 

If Bioware sticks to its Old Europe setting full throttle, I'd think that would limit their ability to tell a fictional, fantasy story, plus it could limit their ability to market the game. George Lucas' Star Wars setting, for example, allowed Lucas to just play around with mythologies around the world as he saw fit. The Jedi Knight Order, for instance, is some kind of East Asian Buddhist-ish order, but with a mostly white face to it. That helped the Jedis become a popular fictional group across the West. Had they been "racially correct" and appeared only as Asian people in the films, that probably would've sank the whole Star Wars franchise, honestly..

[DeeTwoAr]

...having a game set in Old Europe is far more marketable than a game set in Old Asia...Old Europe is a more marketable setting than any other mythological setting...

 

Umm, really ? I can name at least one game (TES III Morrowind) the popularity of which was greatly contributed by its exotic, non-medieval-Europe-like setting. In DAI Bioware finally moved away from that faux-Medieval Europe visual style towards more Renaissance or even the Age of Enlightenment look, and I like this move tremendously (while not some particular design decisions). Isn't veryone just tired of this "fantasy staged in faux-medieval-Europe setting" thing ?..

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think China ever had  as much ethnic diversity as Europe. 

 

This is very, very wrong. China rivals Europe in ethnic diversity at the very least. The culture is more unified, but same culture does not result in same ethnical identity. The "Chinese" (Han people) is not a single ethnicity, like e.g. "French" - it's a collection of ethnic groups inhabitating one territory (mostly Huanghe and Yangtze valleys) and sharing historycal fate, like "Europeans" as a whole. Essentially, each province of China has a separate ethnicity, just like different regions of Europe have different indigenous ethnical groups. Add to this the non-Chinese people of the Inner Mongolia, Tibet, Uyghuria etc.

 

Depends on how you define ethnic. Europe had about the same proportion of Europeans as China had Chinese, it's just that there is more variance in the appearance of Europeans. Northern Europeans look very different from Southern Europeans, while Northern and Southern Chinese look basically the same, at least to my knowledge.

 

Well, according to the definition I'm most familiar with, ethnicity is not about people looking vaguely similar, but about them having common ethnical identitie, separating themselves from the rest of the humanity as "us" vs. "not us"; people can look very similar, inhabit neighboring territories, yet still belong to very different ethnicities with very different cultures - like Germanic, Baltic and Slavic peoples in the Northeastern Europe.

[Steelcan]

seems a tad weird to me that someone like Barris is black, he's Ferelden nobility but is clearly "Rivaini"

[Steelcan]

Umm, really ? I can name at least one game (TES III Morrowind) the popularity of which was greatly contributed by its exotic, non-medieval-Europe-like setting. In DAI Bioware finally moved away from that faux-Medieval Europe visual style towards more Renaissance or even the Age of Enlightenment look, and I like this move tremendously (while not some particular design decisions). Isn't veryone just tired of this "fantasy staged in faux-medieval-Europe setting" thing ?..

not really.

 

the one example I can think that is more early modern than medieval is Halamshiral, but everything else is very much stone castles and swords and such