159 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoBlonde]

Dungeons and Dragons Online has, for my money, the best trap/puzzle/lock mechanics of ANY GAME I HAVE EVER PLAYED, bar none.  Traps are REAL traps.  Spinning blades.  Spikes.  Spouts that shoot elemental damage.  Air jets (often in conjunction with spikes).  Floors that break under you.  Openings that spit grease onto steep paths.  It's AWESOME.  And the best part is that if you can't disarm the trap due to lack of rogue, you can time them or dodge them or otherwise deal with them THAT way.  A rogue disarms the trap by finding the control box and disarming that.  It's awesome and it feels like a much more real trap than anything else I've ever seen.  Some of them can get really tricky or be genuinely amusing.

Locks are basically a skill test, but unless it's an optional area you can find a key or a series of levers or something that lets you open the vital door.  In some places you can just bash it down but it takes longer or sounds an alarm.  Also awesome.

 

Puzzles are ubiquitous but tend to fall into common types.  There's the "lights" puzzle, the "tiles" puzzle, and the "mirrors" puzzle.  There are also a few unique puzzles like the layout of the Shadow Crypt (you move from section to section basically by teleporting so figuring out how the place connects together requires some smarts) or the riddle in Against the Demon Queen (which is actually unsolvable--you can get close, but you still have a 50/50 chance of getting it exactly right on the first try.  Fortunately you can try again.)  There's also a raid (Reaver's Fate) with a big Mastermind puzzle in it.  Crucible has a fantastic maze puzzle as well.

There's very little story to the game so there are basically two things to keep people playing: combat and the ingenuity of the game itself.  There's a LOT of that on display.  A little in these games sure would be nice.  If we had a quest half as complicated as running The Pit or Prove Your Worth I'd be one happy camper.

[Itzsj]

I would like to mention one thing about the lockpicking problem... even if you play as a rogue to be able to open all the doors and chests initially, it is not possible many times because of 'insufficient skill'. So if you choose rogue to be 'self-sufficient' in certain quests where you may need to explore alone, you find that, a rogue, even with his class-specific advantages, is at mercy of stats and talents to boost his skills. As such, it is quite the same for 'stealing' which is not rogue specific... even if you invest in that skill, you often find yourself insufficiently skilled at stealing profitable targets. That makes me think that stealing and lockpicking should be treated in a similar way... if Rogues get to pick locks, they should get to pick pockets too... and if anyone can pick pockets, anyone should be able to pick locks too. I kinda feel that skills like stealth and trap-detection and disarming make more sense for a rogue, even though due to companion behavior at times, stealth can be a difficult option to play out with full party... some changes to that to make rogues in the party more effective can be good. As for lock-bashing, that option for warriors, with the possibility of damaging items inside is not too bad from an RPG perspective.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think the second part of the statement is the problem - the devs could give lock bash, but then that opens up Mage's to also having utility spells... and once that pigeon flows the coop, then Mages will be the most broken of classes. Because of a need for Mage's to be combat-equivalent to warriors, they would have all the benefits of spell combat, PLUS the ability to magically (LITERALLY) do anything else in the world. At which point... why WOULDN'T you roll a majority-Mage (or even all-Mage) party?

I always have. I don't see how this is a problem.

[In Exile]

I always have. I don't see how this is a problem.

 

The problem is that people want to roll a warrior character and not feel, basically, worthless. 

[Elhanan]

What I would like to see if that Lockpicking could be accomplished by all classes using picks, bashing, or spell power, but only XP could be obtained by the Rogue as they used skill; not force. All three classes gain the goods stored inside, but only the Rogue benefits with experience.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem is that people want to roll a warrior character and not feel, basically, worthless.

I still like how AD&D handled this by making melee characters more effective at low levels, and dramatically reducing the survivability of magic-users.

[Realmzmaster]

I always have. I don't see how this is a problem.

 

That is because you basically run an all or almost all mage party., just like I basically like to run an all or almost all rogue party.

[Fast Jimmy]

That is because you basically run an all or almost all mage party., just like I basically like to run an all or almost all rogue party.

I think it would be interesting to run a party of all Knight Enchanters. It has been a long time since I had a party that was an all-Knighter.

[Gtdef]

I ran 3 rogue party in DA2, it's the most faceroll easy way to beat nightmare. Just get shadow spec and have 2 rogues spamming chameleon's on you. Then proceed to autoattack the rest of the game.

[In Exile]

I think it would be interesting to run a party of all Knight Enchanters. It has been a long time since I had a party that was an all-Knighter.

 

The pun hurts. It hurts. 

 

I ran 3 rogue party in DA2, it's the most faceroll easy way to beat nightmare. Just get shadow spec and have 2 rogues spamming chameleon's on you. Then proceed to autoattack the rest of the game.

 

A 3 rogue party only works well with Varric/Sebastian, because otherwise you get melee FF issues. Unless I suppose you build your tank as a pure "draw away attention, then just soak damage" turtle. 

 

 

I still like how AD&D handled this by making melee characters more effective at low levels, and dramatically reducing the survivability of magic-users.

I didn't like that approach - I prefer that classes don't lose disproportionately lose out (or gain in) effectiveness at higher levels. 

[Gtdef]

There is no tank, with 6 obscuring abilities you don't take any damage at all unless you forget to kill the Saarebas. Only time I used sebastian was for his personal quest.

 

It's 3 rogues and anders vengeance spec'ed for martyr and faster cooldowns on upgraded petrify and haste.

[In Exile]

There is no tank, with 6 obscuring abilities you don't take any damage at all unless you forget to kill the Saarebas. Only time I used sebastian was for his personal quest.

 

It's 3 rogues and anders vengeance spec'ed for martyr and faster cooldowns on upgraded petrify and haste.

 

Does obscure stack? 

[Gtdef]

No, but you can add a skip tactics condition that prevents the party from wasting their abilities so you have 100% uptime whenever you need it, plus fatiguing fog slows attackspeed to a crawl, so it's safe to assume that whoever is inside won't die anytime soon.

 

Plus armistice works well, along with decoy, having the enemies retargeting all the time and trying to kill the decoy with fatiguing fog debuff. The only enemies I remember that gave me trouble are the first few levels of Legacy, because they are all archers and brontos, and I had to adjust my tactics. Generally speaking, for Nightmare you want to prioritize killing archers. If the level has only archers, then the party does some crazy ****, like switching targets randomly etc, which results in running around the map and taking free damage, and be out of range to use the defensive abilities.

 

Bosses are irrelevant. With haste, rogue attacks so fast that it's easy to animation cancel and sidestep the boss melee attacks. And you can counter most elemental attacks by stacking resistance runes. Trust me, it's really easy. If you have dlc gear packs it's totally laughable.

[In Exile]

No, but you can add a skip tactics condition that prevents the party from wasting their abilities so you have 100% uptime whenever you need it, plus fatiguing fog slows attackspeed to a crawl, so it's safe to assume that whoever is inside won't die anytime soon.

 

Plus armistice works well, along with decoy, having the enemies retargeting all the time and trying to kill the decoy with fatiguing fog debuff. The only enemies I remember that gave me trouble are the first few levels of Legacy, because they are all archers and brontos, and I had to adjust my tactics. Generally speaking, for Nightmare you want to prioritize killing archers. If the level has only archers, then the party does some crazy ****, like switching targets randomly etc, which results in running around the map and taking free damage, and be out of range to use the defensive abilities.

 

Bosses are irrelevant. With haste, rogue attacks so fast that it's easy to animation cancel and sidestep the boss melee attacks. And you can counter most elemental attacks by stacking resistance runes. Trust me, it's really easy. If you have dlc gear packs it's totally laughable.

I just realized that fatiguing fog doesn't trigger FF even on nightmare (I always assumed it did), so I'm quite eager to try out this type of party make-up now. It sounds interesting. 

You're entirely right about the obscenely powerful archers, who have a 100% hit rate (and can often hit around corners). 

 

Even with haste, though, I've never managed to animation cancel the Rock Wraith. 

[Gtdef]

Actually you don't even need to. Stack as much lightning resistance you can, and hit him only with varric and anders till he reaches 75% and break down. Then pop haste, all cooldowns and destroy him. Even if you don't kill him, he will break down again immediately after he gets up because he will be past the phase percentage.

 

Only thing you have to do is just avoid the big aoe before he breaks down and whack him till he dies. Have varric or something to kill the profanes, shouldn't be too much trouble. There is a bug I think, that leaves them at 1 health and they don't die. It's pretty well known. Nothing you can do about it. Gets fixed after a while by itself.

 

In case you have dlc gear packs, bring along as many spirit weapons as you can, it takes double damage from them. You should be able to kill him the first time he breaks down.

 

It's possible to sidestep him though. I think there is a youtube video that a warrior solos him with sidestepping. It's just easier to just get him down slowly.

[Fast Jimmy]

The pun hurts. It hurts. 

You know you love it.

[Squeezeweasel]

I really don't mind lockpicking being a rogue-only skill - it's a nudge to keep the party balanced. But I'll be irritated if there's a situation like the one in DAO where no rogue NPCs are available, but there's a map full of locked chests to work through. (Ostagar. Really annoying if you're playing anything other than a rogue.)

[Elhanan]

I really don't mind lockpicking being a rogue-only skill - it's a nudge to keep the party balanced. But I'll be irritated if there's a situation like the one in DAO where no rogue NPCs are available, but there's a map full of locked chests to work through. (Ostagar. Really annoying if you're playing anything other than a rogue.)

More so for me a Human Warrior, and cannot gather materials from my home. Bash Lock mod to the rescue!

[Magdalena11]

I really don't mind lockpicking being a rogue-only skill - it's a nudge to keep the party balanced. But I'll be irritated if there's a situation like the one in DAO where no rogue NPCs are available, but there's a map full of locked chests to work through. (Ostagar. Really annoying if you're playing anything other than a rogue.)

I love keeping locks/traps rogue only.  Every class has unique talents and using those resources effectively is called strategy.  Most locked containers can be returned to later if there's no rogue.  To use the example of Ostagar, all a non-rogue has to do is wait until Daveth joins and you can open every chest there.  The Tower of Ishal had 1 locked chest at the base and less than a half-dozen before the ogre.  They were all 5-10 XP locks, and contained little of value.  Even the tough chest in the Templar Quarters was still there later in the game.  Of course I nearly always play a rogue in DAO now because I discovered how fun it is to pick pockets during combat.  I know any class can pick pockets but rogues have an advantage d/t cunning.

[Roar Hilmarsen]

I would also like if they went with old RPG concept where a warrior could bash the lock to open a chest, but as a consequence, some of the contents were destroyed or something like that. Overall, I don't mind since I think a balanced party should at least have one of every class + Quizzy. 

Like that idea, but what if for example it wouldnt disapair, but you might have to go to a blacksmith to Fix it for a fee? or something in the lines of.

[Roar Hilmarsen]

Dynamix had this game called Betrayal at Krondor it's one of my all time favorite's, they had an unusual method to locked chests that no one else ever did.

Anyone could unlock the chest providing you could solve the Riddle Locks!

 

Example riddle for a locked chest:

 

Two legs it has, And this will Confound"

Only at Rest, Do they touch the ground.

Tbh, this should be an "optional" option for the player to select in the menu if they want to try to open it, add it to a scrollwheel. 1: riddle 2: lockpick 3, etc..

[Roar Hilmarsen]

I think the second part of the statement is the problem - the devs could give lock bash, but then that opens up Mage's to also having utility spells... and once that pigeon flows the coop, then Mages will be the most broken of classes. Because of a need for Mage's to be combat-equivalent to warriors, they would have all the benefits of spell combat, PLUS the ability to magically (LITERALLY) do anything else in the world. At which point... why WOULDN'T you roll a majority-Mage (or even all-Mage) party?

 

I don't agree with it 100%, but Bioware is trying to make all classes unique, both in terms of combat and in terms of non-combat utility. So rogues are the only ones that can lockpick, Mages are the only ones that can construct bridges out of nothingness and warriors will be able to do some type of wilderness tracking or some other such thing. A well built, diverse party will be the best to address the most issues. If you bring a party that isn't class balanced, you will suffer the consequences - which, in past games, essentially just means losing out on loot on par with what you would find in an abandoned barrel.

as ive mentioned before, there is a choice of bringing a rogue and such, but leaving you without the content behind all locks.
in my mind, the class should reflect your combat experiance, not your Loot, or the mobs you face (atleast not in such a scale as we are discusing here). 

You shoud be acknowledged for what you are by the NPC's, and the way the combat plays out is determined by the party members you bring. but there are several issues with having ONLY rogues beeing able to open locks.

Nr1: less of a choice of what class you bring
Nr2: you want to bring a "cooler" character then the given rogues of this game (ive stated before i got no issues with earlier rogue personas)
Nr3: you miss loot/content
Nr4: it doesnt feel right (i bet most people would be able to pick locks if tought how to do so - to some extent atleast
Nr5: its annoying. like for me, i HATE not knowing whats behind a door or a chest and so on. takes up time to go get your rogue etc.
and probably a few more reasons, but the ones listed up are major in my opinion.

Now as for a fix, there are several ways to work around this, just read the suggestion's on this post. puzzels (which can both be solved up against intelligance or the player him/her self's ability to open it.), bashing locks, learning how to, melting it with magic, maybe find/pick up a key? 

 

so what im saying is basicly; let the class be unique in combat but not a must have to access content.

and like someone mentioned, sometimes you really dont have an option to get it, unless you, yourself is a rogue.

[Roar Hilmarsen]

I agree with you. I want each class to be unique if Bioware is going to use a class system. In a single character game like Skyrim or Kingdoms of Amalur it makes sense to have all the skills available to choose. I see no reason for it in a party based game. Each member of the party is suppose to bring skills that complement the other party members strengths and skills that make up for any weaknesses.

 

The rogue brings Stealth skills (lockpicking etc) to the party. The mage brings the magic. The warrior brings the strength, the ability to absorb punishment and dish it out.

 

If a gamer wants to have an all mage party or all warrior party or all rogue party then there are consequences and benefits to those parties. 

 

It appears that some gamers want all the benefits but none of the consequences inherent in party selection. 

It might seem like we want EVERYTHING with no downsides, but it is really a matter of playstyle and freedom. when you put points in lockpicking for example, you could be putting it in a different talent tree, but you are not. make it so that when you put talents in to opening locks, you lose out on other importain choices. make it so that the sacrifise for opening locks is felt but not in a way that defines the loot you find (there are several areas which you can only access ONCE, and you need to make a discision on whom to bring with you, and if thats not a rogue your sepposed to lose out on Say a dragons loot? or just cause there is some water in the way, does this mean that the experiance on the other side of the river is lost because you didnt bring a mage?

[Realmzmaster]

It might seem like we want EVERYTHING with no downsides, but it is really a matter of playstyle and freedom. when you put points in lockpicking for example, you could be putting it in a different talent tree, but you are not. make it so that when you put talents in to opening locks, you lose out on other importain choices. make it so that the sacrifise for opening locks is felt but not in a way that defines the loot you find (there are several areas which you can only access ONCE, and you need to make a discision on whom to bring with you, and if thats not a rogue your sepposed to lose out on Say a dragons loot? or just cause there is some water in the way, does this mean that the experiance on the other side of the river is lost because you didnt bring a mage?

 

Yes, that is a party composition choice. Which is suppose to be part of strategy. If you choose to not included a class in your party then you choose not to be able to access certain areas or open locked chests or doors.

 

If you choose not to include a mage then you choose to have a party with no magic spells. So those areas cannot be accessed which require magic.

 

The other point is what if lockpicking requires both cunning and lockpicking skill. Let's say that opening the hardest chest requires a skill of 5 (top level) and a cunning of 50. Are you going to have a warrior with skill 5 and cunning 50? If you do you have basically created a rogue without the rogue's damage output and stealth skills.

[Elite Midget]

We've had mods for Origins, Awakening and DA2 that added in Lock Bash for Warriors and the Unlock Spell for Mages.

 

I think it's time these things be included in the base game.