159 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

We've had mods for Origins, Awakening and DA2 that added in Lock Bash for Warriors and the Unlock Spell for Mages.

 

I think it's time these things be included in the base game.

 

Why?

[Elite Midget]

Why?

Because not everyone wants to bring a Rogue or be a Rogue. They want to bring the Companions they like and stumbling upon banters between said Companions.

 

DA:O even had rubble for breaking chests already in game so Bioware did toss around the idea before. With how every game has had mods for Lock Bash and the Unlock Spell I would say it's clear what fans would like for convenience. 

[Gtdef]

Make the casual mode chests to be opened by anyone. Consistency be damned but I actually get annoyed by this discussion. DA2 has 4 rogues, DAI has 3. There aren't many people that dislike all of them and don't want to bring them.

 

People say "banter" is the problem. Was it in DA2? Just bring the characters you like for the missions in the city, and a rogue for outside. There are many checks for banters. It's not like there are SO MANY CHESTS that we are essentially forced out of banter content. If memory serves, inside the city there's only one, in docks at night. Do you want me to list all the quests you do that take place inside the city?

 

What else. "Rogues are weak". Companion rogues were in DAO, that was 2 games ago, and for pc players there are mods. Plus unless you are OCD, you know by now that chests in DAO have mostly rubbish. I'm pretty sure if you google "which chests to open in DAO", there will be a guide somewhere.

 

I can see the problem for DAO, but I saw it fixed in DA2 and the same trend seems to continue for DAI. I actually like this cause it shows integrity. And stop throwing the bash and mage openlock like it's the "end all arguments" fact. There are unbashable/metal doors and others immune to magic. How about we make it that every class has to spend talents/items to open the doors and randomize the encounters that each class can deal with? Fun. And some dms totally do this.

[Realmzmaster]

Because not everyone wants to bring a Rogue or be a Rogue. They want to bring the Companions they like and stumbling upon banters between said Companions.

 

DA:O even had rubble for breaking chests already in game so Bioware did toss around the idea before. With how every game has had mods for Lock Bash and the Unlock Spell I would say it's clear what fans would like for convenience. 

 

So not everyone wants to bring along a mage or warrior. I do not see gamers asking that all characters be given access to magic. I do not see everyone asking that all characters be allowed to carry greatswords, carry a shield and sword or wear heavy armor.

 

What about the banter that the rogues generate? Are gamers just going to ignore that banter which may lead to interesting conversations for the gamer and protagonist.

[Elhanan]

So not everyone wants to bring along a mage or warrior. I do not see gamers asking that all characters be given access to magic. I do not see everyone asking that all characters be allowed to carry greatswords, carry a shield and sword or wear heavy armor.
 
What about the banter that the rogues generate? Are gamers just going to ignore that banter which may lead to interesting conversations for the gamer and protagonist.

Actually, would love for my Rogues to return to choices of heavy armor, assorted weapons, and shields. But I see the point concerning overall balance.

For this reason, I would like any class to have the option to open locks; just Rogues gain XP for doing so. This could possibly follow with mages only gaining XP for certain Skills, and Warriors for certain abilities, but with all other classes be granted a way to perform some tasks.

[Icy Magebane]

Considering the inflated prices for armor, weapons, tomes, and potions, as well as the rather limited amount of loot you can get from normal gameplay, I don't think it's a good idea to limit lockpicking to rogues.  In a game with so few ways to make money, you need every coin you can get.  Admittedly I'm a bit behind on info for this game, but last I head we only have 2 rogues?  Well, hopefully they're both cool so that I can switch them up from time to time... I just don't like having 1 person who always needs to be in my party, especially when the reason is something as contrived as class-restricted lockpicking...

 

That said, I didn't really expect them to change this approach... hopefully we'll have more options for earning money this time around.

[Elite Midget]

 

Make the casual mode chests to be opened by anyone. Consistency be damned but I actually get annoyed by this discussion. DA2 has 4 rogues, DAI has 3. There aren't many people that dislike all of them and don't want to bring them.

 

People say "banter" is the problem. Was it in DA2? Just bring the characters you like for the missions in the city, and a rogue for outside. There are many checks for banters. It's not like there are SO MANY CHESTS that we are essentially forced out of banter content. If memory serves, inside the city there's only one, in docks at night. Do you want me to list all the quests you do that take place inside the city?

 

What else. "Rogues are weak". Companion rogues were in DAO, that was 2 games ago, and for pc players there are mods. Plus unless you are OCD, you know by now that chests in DAO have mostly rubbish. I'm pretty sure if you google "which chests to open in DAO", there will be a guide somewhere.

 

I can see the problem for DAO, but I saw it fixed in DA2 and the same trend seems to continue for DAI. I actually like this cause it shows integrity. And stop throwing the bash and mage openlock like it's the "end all arguments" fact. There are unbashable/metal doors and others immune to magic. How about we make it that every class has to spend talents/items to open the doors and randomize the encounters that each class can deal with? Fun. And some dms totally do this.

That would be a waste of resources, why make it overly complicated when Lock Bash and an Unlock Spell can do it well enough already. If you're that iffy about things have some doors require you have certain Strength or Strength/Constitution to break and Magic or Magic/Willpower to Unlock.

 

 

 

So not everyone wants to bring along a mage or warrior. I do not see gamers asking that all characters be given access to magic. I do not see everyone asking that all characters be allowed to carry greatswords, carry a shield and sword or wear heavy armor.

 

What about the banter that the rogues generate? Are gamers just going to ignore that banter which may lead to interesting conversations for the gamer and protagonist.

You can beat DA:O and DA2 without having a Mage or Warrior in your party all the time. While you NEED a Rogue for every single quest mission that isn't a fetch one as Lockpicking grants you quite a bit of Experience, coin and items.

 

Having the ability to use Magic or a Great Sword doesn't effect your rewards or exp gain like how not having a Rogue in your party does. So not the same thing.

 

It's about choices. Without mods you were SEVERELY punished in DA:O and DA2 if you didn't have a Rogue with you 24/7 while you different suffer all that much if you didn't have a Warrior or Mage in your party 24/7.

[Icy Magebane]

@Elite Midget - Hey, that post just reminded me that opening locks awards exp in this level-capped series!  Yeah, they need to at least get rid of that part.  Money I can kind of force myself to do without, but not exp.  Although that may not be an issue because I don't think we have a limited number of battles in Inquisition...  if we can just grind for levels, then it doesn't matter.

[Realmzmaster]

 

 

That would be a waste of resources, why make it overly complicated when Lock Bash and an Unlock Spell can do it well enough already. If you're that iffy about things have some doors require you have certain Strength or Strength/Constitution to break and Magic or Magic/Willpower to Unlock.

 

 

 

You can beat DA:O and DA2 without having a Mage or Warrior in your party all the time. While you NEED a Rogue for every single quest mission that isn't a fetch one as Lockpicking grants you quite a bit of Experience, coin and items.

 

Having the ability to use Magic or a Great Sword doesn't effect your rewards or exp gain like how not having a Rogue in your party does. So not the same thing.

 

It's about choices. Without mods you were SEVERELY punished in DA:O and DA2 if you didn't have a Rogue with you 24/7 while you different suffer all that much if you didn't have a Warrior or Mage in your party 24/7.

 

 

I have run parties from all warrior to all rogue to three mages and a warrior. None of them were severely punished in DAO or DA2. There was enough equipment and experience in the games for all of my protagonists to reach the level cap. 

[Realmzmaster]

Considering the inflated prices for armor, weapons, tomes, and potions, as well as the rather limited amount of loot you can get from normal gameplay, I don't think it's a good idea to limit lockpicking to rogues.  In a game with so few ways to make money, you need every coin you can get.  Admittedly I'm a bit behind on info for this game, but last I head we only have 2 rogues?  Well, hopefully they're both cool so that I can switch them up from time to time... I just don't like having 1 person who always needs to be in my party, especially when the reason is something as contrived as class-restricted lockpicking...

 

That said, I didn't really expect them to change this approach... hopefully we'll have more options for earning money this time around.

 

DAI has three rogues: Lelianna, Sera and Varric.

[Mirrman70]

DAI has three rogues: Lelianna, Sera and Varric.

 

correction. Cole, Sera, Varric.

[EmperorKarino]

there were locked chests in the mage origin in dragonage origins, how the hell are we suppose to open that when we aren't a rogue and we don't get a rogue with lockpicking at that point of the game?

[Elite Midget]

I have run parties from all warrior to all rogue to three mages and a warrior. None of them were severely punished in DAO or DA2. There was enough equipment and experience in the games for all of my protagonists to reach the level cap. 

They really are, a party that has a Rogue will be richer, stronger and find better generally good stuff much earlier than those without due to chest contents and rewards.

 

Rogues also give a ton of EXP from dismantling traps too.

 

Warriors and Mages don't provide anything as an alternative to that.

 

 

there were locked chests in the mage origin in dragonage origins, how the hell are we suppose to open that when we aren't a rogue and we don't get a rogue with lockpicking at that point of the game?

Didn't know that... Sounds hilariously evil.

 

Reminds me of the Human Noble.

 

Locked Doors and chests all over the place but if you want to open them you gotta start as a Rogue, as you only get warrior party members and dog, and invest in cunning and the opening skill.

[Magdalena11]

Because not everyone wants to bring a Rogue or be a Rogue. They want to bring the Companions they like and stumbling upon banters between said Companions.

 

DA:O even had rubble for breaking chests already in game so Bioware did toss around the idea before. With how every game has had mods for Lock Bash and the Unlock Spell I would say it's clear what fans would like for convenience. 

Because it breaks the game.  If a player decides to not take advantage of the assets being offered that's up to them.  I don't think there's a need to offer a replacement.  I think a better time to listen to party banter is outside of initial exploration anyway.

[Magdalena11]

there were locked chests in the mage origin in dragonage origins, how the hell are we suppose to open that when we aren't a rogue and we don't get a rogue with lockpicking at that point of the game?

There were no locked chests in the mage origin, just at the Tower of Ishal.  I just look at those 5 or 6 chests as perks for having underpowered combat skills initially.  

[Elite Midget]

Because it breaks the game.  If a player decides to not take advantage of the assets being offered that's up to them.  I don't think there's a need to offer a replacement.  I think a better time to listen to party banter is outside of initial exploration anyway.

 

No, what breaks the game is Rogues being MANDATORY and the player being SEVERELY punished for not having a Rogue in their party all the time. Furthermore unlocking things via other methods than lock-picking isn't anywhere near game breaking. 

 

There's no valid excuse you can make to explain why a Warrior wouldn't try to bash down a locked door or chest, we even see that stuff happen in cutscenes. Or a Mage not opening Doors and Chest with their own Magical abilities. 

 

Or are you saying that a Mage is so powerless that they cannot open a simple chest or door with magic?

 

The fact that Lock Bash and Mage Spells(That include Unlock) are part of the Top Mods for DA:O, DA:A, and DAII makes it clear what many want as the past system, need a Rogue or SOL, is too restricting. 

[Wulfram]

To be fair, the games haven't tended to punish the player severely for not having a rogue.  The rewards have been fairly negligable in the grand scheme of things.

 

But of course if you're playing without a rogue it's hard not to imagine that there are vast riches in every locked chest.  And it's just kind of annoying.

 

And I don't know why there are so many locks without keys in the world

[Elite Midget]

To be fair, the games haven't tended to punish the player severely for not having a rogue.  The rewards have been fairly negligable in the grand scheme of things.

 

But of course if you're playing without a rogue it's hard not to imagine that there are vast riches in every locked chest.  And it's just kind of annoying.

 

And I don't know why there are so many locks without keys in the world

 

It really does, my Rogue in DA:O and DAII always ended up much richer and a higher level than my Warrior and Mage characters who didn't always have a Rogue with them for whatever reason.

 

There's also some Party Banter for certain quests with combos that don't allow a Rogue in so if your Warden or Hawke wasn't a Rogue you had to miss out or suffer lots of missing EXP, Coin and possibly rare items/materials/ect.

[Icy Magebane]

To be fair, you could sometimes get lucky in those Tower of Ishal chests and get a ton of fire bolts or arrows... those things were worth a whole lot of money, especially when trying to get extra skill tomes (or whatever) from Bodhan in the beginning.  Either lower the prices for items or throw other classes a bone and give us alternatives to making money.

 

In a game with very limited opportunities to earn money and exorbitant prices for even basic armor, it's unreasonable to expect people to walk past the 10-15 locked chests in each section of the Deep Roads.  The only way this really didn't matter (and even then, it kind of did) was when you knew every trick for getting money in advance, but things like pickpocketing the lyrium smuggler in Orzammar still required a rogue...

 

Of course, if we wind up with infinite enemy spawns in the wilderness, then none of this matters to me.

[Magdalena11]

To be fair, you could sometimes get lucky in those Tower of Ishal chests and get a ton of fire bolts or arrows... those things were worth a whole lot of money, especially when trying to get extra skill tomes (or whatever) from Bodhan in the beginning.  Either lower the prices for items or throw other classes a bone and give us alternatives to making money.

 

In a game with very limited opportunities to earn money and exorbitant prices for even basic armor, it's unreasonable to expect people to walk past the 10-15 locked chests in each section of the Deep Roads.  The only way this really didn't matter (and even then, it kind of did) was when you knew every trick for getting money in advance, but things like pickpocketing the lyrium smuggler in Orzammar still required a rogue...

 

Of course, if we wind up with infinite enemy spawns in the wilderness, then none of this matters to me.

After the Tower of Ishal, anyone who recruits either Leliana or Zevran can go back to any chest in the game.  They don't have to be opened on the first trip through an area.  Even a rogue warden is unlikely to have the cunning and lockpicking talent to open the chest in the Templar Quarters right out of Lothering, and even the Anvil of the Void can be returned to after it's been cleared.

 

OK, I'll correct myself.  The chests in the endgame are inaccessible if there's no rogue and they contain handy potions and stuff.

 

I suppose if there's a heal toggle and an "ignore strength requirement for weapons" toggle I'd go along with it.  I just feel like unless the other classes' special abilities are treated with the same degree of respect I'd think it was showing an unfair advantage.  

 

This is just the way I feel about it, and I'll be playing the game no matter what, but I'm not at all upset if I have to let a companion open a chest.  I'll still get the experience for it.  For me, the biggest pain is forgetting who I'm looking at and trying to open with the wrong person because I forgot what class I am.  No toggle for turning off being a scatterbrain.

[Icy Magebane]

@Magdalena11 - Backtracking through levels is a fair compromise, though I recall a few times in DA2 when this was impossible.  It got a little boring but I did that from time to time when I was being stubborn and keeping Zev and Leliana out of the party for some reason.  I think that what bothers me is that I just prefer unconventional teams and I don't see any logical reason for why you wouldn't be able to break open or melt a lock... if they were magically warded locks or reinforced metal doors I could understand, but just a normal wooden door?  The game is just too realistic for me to not be bothered by something that's obviously just a game mechanic...

 

Now that you mention it though, I would sometimes intentionally order non-lockpickers to attempt a break-in just to hear their remarks... 

 

Varric: "You want me to do what, now?"  "That's... not really my thing."  lol...

 

Let me just add that I'd prefer if they made lockpicking/bashing universal but instead boosted pickpocketing as a rogue-only ability... I think it's more reasonable for rogues to get extra coin this way, since mages and warriors are just too clumsy to pull this off with any success.

[Roar Hilmarsen]

Yes, that is a party composition choice. Which is suppose to be part of strategy. If you choose to not included a class in your party then you choose not to be able to access certain areas or open locked chests or doors.

 

If you choose not to include a mage then you choose to have a party with no magic spells. So those areas cannot be accessed which require magic.

 

The other point is what if lockpicking requires both cunning and lockpicking skill. Let's say that opening the hardest chest requires a skill of 5 (top level) and a cunning of 50. Are you going to have a warrior with skill 5 and cunning 50? If you do you have basically created a rogue without the rogue's damage output and stealth skills.

Like i mentioned earlier, if you dont want to bring a rogue in the party, then you should not lose out on content, besides the gameplay and what the rogue brings to a combat sceen. That is the issue at hand. 

 

If you make it so that lockpicking is a all around talent, maybe a warrior needs strenght + lockpick level X to open this and that chest and door. a mage could require intellect etc.

 

But yet still, if they keep lockpicking as a Rogue only talent (warriors cant bash locks, and mages cant melt them etc.) then the system we have had so far isnt perfect as noted through out this forum post.

[Roar Hilmarsen]

Make the casual mode chests to be opened by anyone. Consistency be damned but I actually get annoyed by this discussion. DA2 has 4 rogues, DAI has 3. There aren't many people that dislike all of them and don't want to bring them.

 

People say "banter" is the problem. Was it in DA2? Just bring the characters you like for the missions in the city, and a rogue for outside. There are many checks for banters. It's not like there are SO MANY CHESTS that we are essentially forced out of banter content. If memory serves, inside the city there's only one, in docks at night. Do you want me to list all the quests you do that take place inside the city?

 

What else. "Rogues are weak". Companion rogues were in DAO, that was 2 games ago, and for pc players there are mods. Plus unless you are OCD, you know by now that chests in DAO have mostly rubbish. I'm pretty sure if you google "which chests to open in DAO", there will be a guide somewhere.

 

I can see the problem for DAO, but I saw it fixed in DA2 and the same trend seems to continue for DAI. I actually like this cause it shows integrity. And stop throwing the bash and mage openlock like it's the "end all arguments" fact. There are unbashable/metal doors and others immune to magic. How about we make it that every class has to spend talents/items to open the doors and randomize the encounters that each class can deal with? Fun. And some dms totally do this.

Going on google does take away the guesswork of "should i bring him or her" but it really takes away from the immersion. and even if it is alot of lesser value loot, money is hard to come by (you can never get enough  ) and it always will be the question of "what if" or what it could be...

[Roar Hilmarsen]

No, what breaks the game is Rogues being MANDATORY and the player being SEVERELY punished for not having a Rogue in their party all the time. Furthermore unlocking things via other methods than lock-picking isn't anywhere near game breaking. 

 

There's no valid excuse you can make to explain why a Warrior wouldn't try to bash down a locked door or chest, we even see that stuff happen in cutscenes. Or a Mage not opening Doors and Chest with their own Magical abilities. 

 

Or are you saying that a Mage is so powerless that they cannot open a simple chest or door with magic?

 

The fact that Lock Bash and Mage Spells(That include Unlock) are part of the Top Mods for DA:O, DA:A, and DAII makes it clear what many want as the past system, need a Rogue or SOL, is too restricting. 

tis brightening news to hear that there are options (which i didnt know of until now - tho i never looked) to help EVERYONE gain access to content. But also, like you say, its one of the "Top Mods" for Dragon age. this is a valueable point to bring forth, basicly says that alot of people out there want this.

and needless to say, it doesnt take more then a few hours to think of good workarounds to make locks and rogues stay relevant but still not mandatory.

[Gtdef]

 

 

That would be a waste of resources, why make it overly complicated when Lock Bash and an Unlock Spell can do it well enough already. If you're that iffy about things have some doors require you have certain Strength or Strength/Constitution to break and Magic or Magic/Willpower to Unlock.

 

 

Because both bash and open lock magic are used as resources. Not everyone can bash a door. If it has protection then only very strong attacks can bash it, plus you can't bash metal doors. And open lock, is used in a system where you have to prepare spells. It's limited. Your version of bash and open lock are limitless. Convenient. Not the same.

 

Bringing a rogue spec'ed to unlock is managing resources. Lose something, gain something. Even if it's cliche and tiring, it serves a purpose. Having every class getting through locks and disarming traps serves nothing. Only makes the whole "locked" concept pointless.

 

Bringing a mage with you gives you better control. Bringing a warrior gives more meat to protect the squishies. Bringing a rogue with you increases monetary gain and allows you to disarm traps. And if you wish to, you can bring a rogue later to backtrack.

 

You can beat DA:O and DA2 without having a Mage or Warrior in your party all the time. While you NEED a Rogue for every single quest mission that isn't a fetch one as Lockpicking grants you quite a bit of Experience, coin and items.

 

Having the ability to use Magic or a Great Sword doesn't effect your rewards or exp gain like how not having a Rogue in your party does. So not the same thing.

 

It's about choices. Without mods you were SEVERELY punished in DA:O and DA2 if you didn't have a Rogue with you 24/7 while you different suffer all that much if you didn't have a Warrior or Mage in your party 24/7.

 

You can beat DAO and DA2 without having rogue and opening locks. I can't really see why the comparison is relevant. You compare 2 different things. Beating the game is the point, opening the locks is optional. If you want a quest reward, you do the quest. You don't complain that quests are limiting cause you can't get gear.

 

And as I pointed out in the post you quoted, you don't get punished at all in DA2, unless your definition of "punishment" is having to bring a rogue in 4 areas that later become inaccessible, and the game forces a rogue on you for 3 of them.

 

Your only valid point is the xp, but it's pretty small in comparison.