117 réponses à ce sujet

[DrDetective]

So, is that the name of the race, or what?  Because I don't care what the writers say, we need a name for these people, for clarity's sake.  I get that "Kossith" is apparently not it, but "Vashoth" makes sense.  "Grey Ones" matches their skin tone, and it stands to reason that the Qunari would not want to be known by that name, since, to them, race is secondary, at best, and the Tal-Vashoth have appropriated the word as a protest of the Qun.

[StrangeStrategy]

Name of the Race: Kossith. Big horned giants. Known commonly as "Qunari", whether they follow the Qun or not.

Name of the Religion/Philosophy: Qunari. Can include any race, so long as they are a follower of the Qun (Tallis is a Qunari)

Tal-Vashoth: Those who have abandoned the Qun

Vashoth: Those born outside the Qun, and have never known it (Our Inquisitor)

 

I think. I have a VERY helpful picture/graph but I don't know how to upload attachements

[Pokemario]

Qunari.

[DrDetective]

I'm pretty sure Gaider said at some point that "Kossith" was the name of the culture that predated the Qun, not necessarily the race itself.

[OctagonalSquare]

*points to signature*

[DrDetective]

Didn't say there were Kossith.  Just said that "Vashoth" made sense as a technical name for the race itself.

[Battlebloodmage]

Name of the Race: Qunari. Big horned giants. Known commonly as "Qunari", whether they follow the Qun or not.
Name of the Religion/Philosophy: Qunari. Can include any race, so long as they are a follower of the Qun (Tallis is a Qunari)
Tal-Vashoth: Those who have abandoned the Qun
Vashoth: Those born outside the Qun, and have never known it (Our Inquisitor)
Kossith: Ancient race and culture that precede the Qunari. 

I think. I have a VERY helpful picture/graph but I don't know how to upload attachements

Fixed

[mikeymoonshine]

Vashoth are those who have left the Qun. It's unclear as to why qunquizy is Vashoth because he/she was born outside the Qun (apparently). It's possibly just because that's how the Qunari will view our pc because of their race. 

 

Non of this matters to anyone who isn't Qunari though. 

 

I generally capitalise when I am talking about the society (Qinari) and use lower case for the race (qunari). 

[Ibn_Shisha]

Name of the Race: Kossith. Big horned giants. Known commonly as "Qunari", whether they follow the Qun or not.

Name of the Religion/Philosophy: Qunari. Can include any race, so long as they are a follower of the Qun (Tallis is a Qunari)

Tal-Vashoth: Those who have abandoned the Qun

Vashoth: Those born outside the Qun, and have never known it (Our Inquisitor)

 

I think. I have a VERY helpful picture/graph but I don't know how to upload attachements

and, lest we forget:

 

Ogre: darkspawnified versions of the above.

[Fox In The Box]

I don't know a whole lot about the Qunari, but I think that the Vashoth are people who simply left the Qun, while the Tal-Vashoth left the Qun and fight against the Qunari in some form or another, but I'm not sure.

[Kreidian]

Vashoth are those who have left the Qun. It's unclear as to why qunquizy is Vashoth because he/she was born outside the Qun (apparently). It's possibly just because that's how the Qunari will view our pc because of their race. 

 

Non of this matters to anyone who isn't Qunari though. 

 

I generally capitalise when I am talking about the society (Qinari) and use lower case for the race (qunari). 

 

You're thinking TAL-Vashoth. 

The Tal-Vashoth are generally not liked so much for having abandoned the Qun. The Vashoth (minus the "Tal") is the term being used for those qunari (the big horned race) who were never part of the Qun to begin with.

( Technically they could also be considered Bas since the philosophy is that the Vashoth don't know any better. )

[Zered]

Not this again...

[Iakus]

You're thinking TAL-Vashoth. 

The Tal-Vashoth are generally not liked so much for having abandoned the Qun. The Vashoth (minus the "Tal") is the term being used for those qunari (the big horned race) who were never part of the Qun to begin with.

( Technically they could also be considered Bas since the philosophy is that the Vashoth don't know any better. )

 

'Vashoth" means "Grey Ones" in Qunlat.  It's what Qunari call anyone who abandons the Qun

"Tal-Vashoth" means "True Grey Ones" and presumably means those who actively opposes the Qun.  they give that name to themselves.

 

As to why the Qunquisitor is considered Vashoth when he/she was born outside the Qun, I am thinking they were part of a Vashoth community, and was the child of Vashoth.

 

And finally for me:

qunari (lower case)=race ex Sten, the Arishok, Maeraas, Ketojen

Qunari (upper case) anyone who submits to the Qun:  the Arishok, Tallis, Sten, 

 

"kossith" is a term like elvhenan.  Archaic and unlikely to be recognized by most people.

[90s Luke]

qunari for the race, Qunari for the faith 

[Schreckstoff]

I always wondered why the Qun hasn't fragmented yet given even the Islam split between Shiites and Sunnis.

There's a bunch of different interpretations of Andrastianism in Thedas already.

[Kreidian]

Except "Tal-Vashoth" doesn't automatically mean you actively oppose the Qun. There are plenty of instances of Tal-Vashoth who have no quarrel with the Qun, such as Armaas in Awakening. Even Tallis at the end of DA:Redemption suggests she might become Tal-Vashoth some day.

 

I'm sure to a true Qunari the difference is negligible since the mere fact you left the Qun means you actively oppose it in their minds.

[leaguer of one]

Just call the ox-men/women.

[JerZey CJ]

Name of the Race: Kossith Big horned giants. Known commonly as "qunari", whether they follow the Qun or not.

Name of the Religion/Philosophy: Qunari. Can include any race, so long as they are a follower of the Qun (Tallis is a Qunari)

Tal-Vashoth: Those who have abandoned the Qun

Vashoth: Those born outside the Qun, and have never known it (Our Inquisitor)

 

I think. I have a VERY helpful picture/graph but I don't know how to upload attachements

They are only known as qunari, that is the name of the race, not "kossith"(which is an outdated, antiquated term. Like calling people "Celts" now wouldn't make sense or apply to them). Don't go around confusing people more by trying to use "kossith"

[Beliar86]

Kossith was a one off codex to describe the race of horned creatures, but either the codex writer wasn't in line with DG or it actually created confusion, therefore it got retconned into non-existence.  Although this change seems to have created a hell of a lot more confusion than it supposedly solved, so I'm going with the former, especially since internal conflict isn't something you advertise.

[Iakus]

Except "Tal-Vashoth" doesn't automatically mean you actively oppose the Qun. There are plenty of instances of Tal-Vashoth who have no quarrel with the Qun, such as Armaas in Awakening. Even Tallis at the end of DA:Redemption suggests she might become Tal-Vashoth some day.

 

I'm sure to a true Qunari the difference is negligible since the mere fact you left the Qun means you actively oppose it in their minds.

Armaas outright declared "the Qun is a lie" I think there's a difference between being unable to live under the Qun and outright rejecting it.

[movieguyabw]

Yikes, there really is a lot of confusion over the whole naming scheme, isn't there?  0o

 

As for Vashoth - I was under the impression that is the name given to those who were born outside the Qun.

 

Tal-Vashoth were those who were a part of the Qun, but were excommunicated, or left of their own volition.

 

Qunari are the followers of the Qun.  However, those who are unfamiliar with the religion are likely to call any of the race "Qunari".

 

Kossith is an antiquated (and likely offensive) term, and *not* a name that should be used to describe them.

 

 

Personally, I don't see *why* we really need to give the race a name.  The whole point behind them is that their religion centers around the sacrifice of personal identity, for the sake of becoming a part of a much larger unit.  The names they are given are not actual *names* they are descriptions of what role they fill in their society.  Why would any follower of the Qun call themselves anything other than "Qunari"?  Throw in the fact that this religion has likely been a major facet of their culture for many generations, and it becomes harder and harder to believe that anyone remembers a time when they were known as anything other than "Qunari".  It doesn't matter what the rest of Thedas (or we, the audience) want to call them - the only name that they'll accept is "Qunari" because in their eyes that's all they are; because that's all that matters.  They are followers of the Qun.  If they left the Qun, they are Tal-Vashoth.  If they've never known the Qun, they are Vashoth.

 

There just isn't a name for the race, because they don't see a need for such a thing.  And any attempts to name them from anyone outside of the Qun would likely be seen as offensive.

[andy6915]

Yikes, there really is a lot of confusion over the whole naming scheme, isn't there?  0o

 

As for Vashoth - I was under the impression that is the name given to those who were born outside the Qun.

 

Tal-Vashoth were those who were a part of the Qun, but were excommunicated, or left of their own volition.

 

Qunari are the followers of the Qun.  However, those who are unfamiliar with the religion are likely to call any of the race "Qunari".

 

Kossith is an antiquated (and likely offensive) term, and *not* a name that should be used to describe them.

 

 

Personally, I don't see *why* we really need to give the race a name.  The whole point behind them is that their religion centers around the sacrifice of personal identity, for the sake of becoming a part of a much larger unit.  The names they are given are not actual *names* they are descriptions of what role they fill in their society.  Why would any follower of the Qun call themselves anything other than "Qunari"?  Throw in the fact that this religion has likely been a major facet of their culture for many generations, and it becomes harder and harder to believe that anyone remembers a time when they were known as anything other than "Qunari".  It doesn't matter what the rest of Thedas (or we, the audience) want to call them - the only name that they'll accept is "Qunari" because in their eyes that's all they are; because that's all that matters.  They are followers of the Qun.  If they left the Qun, they are Tal-Vashoth.  If they've never known the Qun, they are Vashoth.

 

There just isn't a name for the race, because they don't see a need for such a thing.  And any attempts to name them from anyone outside of the Qun would likely be seen as offensive.

 

I'm going to copy and paste some things I last posted when this topic came up a while ago, along with some added points mixed in as I type this.

 

 

"No, we should call them Kossith. Not because it's canon or lore-based but simply because we need a word to refer to the race of giant horned people because Qunari is not merely a race name. Again, we've already met an elven Qunari. Without knowing who she is already, anyone hearing she's a Qunari will picture a tall horned woman and not a petite elf. That kind of confusion is nothing but a headache. So if not Kossith then we need to, as a fanbase or forum, decide on a universal word that we all understand as "the big horned people's species". Kossith is as good as any word and at least is already established, so why not use it? I don't care if it's uncanon or the devs don't like it, we need a way to separate Qunari the species to Qunari the religion.

So tell me. if not Kossith, then what word should we use? And don't say Qunari, that refers to a religion. Oxmen? Refers only to men so I don't really like that term. Giants? Well it sounds cool at least, but they aren't really big enough to be "giant". Horny people? Childish. Grey-skin? Decent, but seems too plain."

---

"Then keep needlessly confusing the fanbase. Because as you know fan nicknames to refer to something like, oh I don't know, calling an unnamed Prothean "Prothy" so that we're all on the same page as to what we're referring to, is obviously not meant to be done. Should we start calling all Arabs "Muslims" now because most happen to be Muslim? I mean if we're going to refer to races by their most common religion, then where should we stop? Should we start calling humans in DAO "Andrastians" as their race name? What if it's an elven chantry believer? Andrastian too? "So an Andrastian went to the market yesterday"... Am I referring to an Elf or a human or even a dwarf if that Orzammar Chantry worked out? You don't know? Well that's the bloody point! Here's another, "a Qunari went to the market yesterday"... Horned one, right? Wrong, it was a dwarven convert. Now you feel stupid for guessing wrong. Maybe this would be easier if we had a way of telling what the hell we're talking about? Just an idea.

You don't want to come up with a name for their race? Then you're just complicating things and making things harder to discuss because we all have to specify exactly which Qunari race we're referring to. Apparently some people just like things remaining frustrating."

 

Want a good example of why we need the distinction, why using the term for a religion doesn't work for referring to a race? A Qunari went to the market and met with their Andrastian friend, but then a non-Qunari Qunari stabbed the Qunari and the Andrastian both. Now... Which races are we talking about here? The Qunari could be an elven convert or a horned person, the Andrastian could be a Dwarf, and the non-Qunari Qunari could be of any race or religion because it could be a horned tal-vashoth or a Qunari who is human or elf or dwarf. Really damn unclear about who is who here, huh?

Bottom line, we need a distinction. I decided to stop arguing the anti-Kossith people and gave an alternative so that it's the Qunari of other races that have a nickname (viddathari) and not the big horned guys. You hate kossith for the race of giants, fine... Then I'll just use a word for the Qunari who aren't of that race. Qunari for the race of horned guys even if they're Vashoth, and viddathari for any Qunari who aren't of the horned race. Happy?

[In Exile]

So, is that the name of the race, or what?  Because I don't care what the writers say, we need a name for these people, for clarity's sake.  I get that "Kossith" is apparently not it, but "Vashoth" makes sense.  "Grey Ones" matches their skin tone, and it stands to reason that the Qunari would not want to be known by that name, since, to them, race is secondary, at best, and the Tal-Vashoth have appropriated the word as a protest of the Qun.

 

Vasoth is the word that people who are culturally qunari use to describe those who leave the Qun. 

[Kreidian]

Yikes, there really is a lot of confusion over the whole naming scheme, isn't there?  0o

 

As for Vashoth - I was under the impression that is the name given to those who were born outside the Qun.

 

Tal-Vashoth were those who were a part of the Qun, but were excommunicated, or left of their own volition.

 

Qunari are the followers of the Qun.  However, those who are unfamiliar with the religion are likely to call any of the race "Qunari".

 

Kossith is an antiquated (and likely offensive) term, and *not* a name that should be used to describe them.

 

 

Personally, I don't see *why* we really need to give the race a name.  The whole point behind them is that their religion centers around the sacrifice of personal identity, for the sake of becoming a part of a much larger unit.  The names they are given are not actual *names* they are descriptions of what role they fill in their society.  Why would any follower of the Qun call themselves anything other than "Qunari"?  Throw in the fact that this religion has likely been a major facet of their culture for many generations, and it becomes harder and harder to believe that anyone remembers a time when they were known as anything other than "Qunari".  It doesn't matter what the rest of Thedas (or we, the audience) want to call them - the only name that they'll accept is "Qunari" because in their eyes that's all they are; because that's all that matters.  They are followers of the Qun.  If they left the Qun, they are Tal-Vashoth.  If they've never known the Qun, they are Vashoth.

 

There just isn't a name for the race, because they don't see a need for such a thing.  And any attempts to name them from anyone outside of the Qun would likely be seen as offensive.

 

Pretty much this.

 

The devs have stated very clearly that the name to use for the big horned race is still 'Qunari'. If you absolutely need a distinction feel free to use lower case 'qunari' when referring to just the race and not the religion. That said, officially the proper term is still Qunari. 

 

Likewise the devs have also used the term "Vashoth" when referring to the Qunari option for the player character in Inquisition. Used in the sense of a Qunari who was raised outside the Qun. 

 

Until there is some form of official info that says otherwise, I'm sticking with what the devs have said in this regard.

[andy6915]

Pretty much this.

 

The devs have stated very clearly that the name to use for the big horned race is still 'Qunari'. If you absolutely need a distinction feel free to use lower case 'qunari' when referring to just the race and not the religion. That said, officially the proper term is still Qunari. 

 

Likewise the devs have also used the term "Vashoth" when referring to the Qunari option for the player character in Inquisition. Used in the sense of a Qunari who was raised outside the Qun. 

 

Until there is some form of official info that says otherwise, I'm sticking with what the devs have said in this regard.

With all due respect to them, screw the devs on this one. I don't care what the Qunari call themselves and I don't care that they don't have a name for their race. Us, as a fanbase for when we talk about lore and canon and characters, need some way to distinguish the race from the religion. If you don't it just muddles the language and makes it more confusing. Call Qunari who aren't of the horned race viddithari or call the horned one Kossith or some other fan nickname, otherwise we as fans are going to run into problems when discussing this stuff. There needs to be clarity in the language for lore discussion, regardless of whether it's "uncanon" or not developer endorsed.