New Vegas' faction approval was a mess, and DA:Os was based on spamming gifts.
New Vegas' faction approval is actually pretty solid, and DA:O's otherwise fine system gets mildly weighed down by the giving of gifts (and, thankfully, the effectiveness depletes with each gift given). It's actually based on how the party members individually react to your dialogue and decisions, which is splendid.
It's really not solid. Too many bugs and annoying issues for what amounts to very little payoff. They easily could have gated approval to the completion of certain quests and have had a better working yet simplier system.
As for DA:O, Morrigan whined at just about everything I said, and I was still able to romance her. By spamming gifts.
As for DA:O, Morrigan whined at just about everything I said, and I was still able to romance her. By spamming gifts.
New Vegas' faction approval was a mess, and DA:Os was based on spamming gifts.
I only gift I gave Leliana was the nug and was still able to romance her. I wouldn't call that spamming gifts
As for DA:O, Morrigan whined at just about everything I said, and I was still able to romance her. By spamming gifts.
Really? The only gift I gave her was her mother's Grimoire and was still able to romance her. Again, I wouldn't call that spamming gifts
Except that Paragon usually is "suck up to every assh01e in the galaxy." And renegade is "behave like a psycho." The system is too black or white.
Re: DA:O, clarify. Re: FNV, you're asserting that faction-specific approval ratings cannot work. Again, clarify.First of all, no, they're really not. As in, DA:O wouldn't have a perfect system merely by getting rid of the gifts. Secondly, my objections to FNV's reputation system are mostly not bugs, they're poorly implemented mechanics and an overall system that affects little.
Who said anything about blame? All I said is it's too simple to act as a persuasion mechanic. They tried that in ME2 and all it did was compel people to align with one side or the other throughout or fail to resolve the loyalty conflicts.Thirdly, the only thing Paragon and Renegade affect for the choice is Shepard's persuation ability. Which is independent of all the other choices you made with the quarians and geth. So blaming is as 'simplistic' when it in fact had nothing to do with such a scenario other than act as a skill mechanic is really very silly.
No, but again, this is irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is whether such decisions should boil down to a single climactic dialogue wheel with immediate results or "the falling of small stones which starts an avalanche."In fact, does Paragon and Renegade even affect that? Or is it just reputation that affects it? Which would mean Paragon and Renegade has utterly and completely nothing to do with the choice whatsoever? Which would make you pointing fingers at...well...not very smart at all?
This topic had nothing to do with paragon/renegade until you tried to project that position onto me. I'm talking about making "big decisions" into the sum of smaller ones. It seems you're the one having difficulty grasping what's being discussed here, preferring to wedge it into an existing template and throwing a fit when I don't play the role you want me to. Now, if you would, kindly cram the insults and stay on topic or leave.I see. Basically, you're clumsily shoehorning in your whining about the Paragon/Renegade system at every opportunity. Even when it's utterly inappropriate because it's not actually the issue you're pretending it to be. Despite yourself nagging about what the 'focus of the topic is.'
Look, do you really even know what you're talking about here? Did you read my post where I correctly pointed out the example you posted does nothing to show off your actual 'idea' at all?
First of all, no, they're really not. As in, DA:O wouldn't have a perfect system merely by getting rid of the gifts.
In fact, does Paragon and Renegade even affect that? Or is it just reputation that affects it?
This topic had nothing to do with paragon/renegade until you tried to project that position onto me.
What's your problem with DA:O besides the gifts, then? I thought it got the job done fine except for the gifts. What am I missing?
So why do you think they did the extra work to add the gift system in?
So why do you think they did the extra work to add the gift system in?
Fun? Immersion? I'm not much of a fan of the mechanic either, but gifts aren't the basis for the system.
They do, however, spice up a few of the personal companion quests, such as with Morrigan's grimoire (a gateway to the romance).
Also, the effectiveness of the gifts diminishes as they're given to a particular member, and can actually be negated if the approval rating is in the red.
Also if you desecrated the ashes of Andraste, Wynne would tell you she was leaving your party if she was at camp when it happened.
Point taken.This is exactly why I thought you shouldn't be talking about the highlighting.
What's your problem with DA:O besides the gifts, then? I thought it got the job done fine except for the gifts. What am I missing?
As in, DA:O wouldn't have a perfect system merely by getting rid of the gifts.
Getting rid of the gifts entirely would probably ruin DA:O's system, because some of them are actually plot-related and are not simply meaningless trinkets. Where it gets weird is the plethora of gifts that allow you to override the companion's reaction to the choices you make that they might object to.
I don't like the companion systems in general. I would get rid of them. Base companion reponse to the player on major choices in the story, preferably where the companion is mandatorily present.
Do you know what the plot-related gifts or even the companion approval/disapproval systems in DA:O entail?
I don't like the companion systems in general. I would get rid of them. Base companion reponse to the player on major choices in the story, preferably where the companion is mandatorily present.
Because major choices are the only thing that impact one's feeling about another person, right?
I like the companion systems quite a bit, actually, and I hope BioWare brings together Dragon Age's system (sans gifts) with ME's new rep scaling and something like New Vegas's faction approval.
And that's another thing. Companions should disapprove if you make disparaging remarks regarding the character's race (if applicable) or something to that effect, like how Morrigan will rightly disapprove if you show disgust in her ability to shapeshift.
Don't try and make a nonsense 'realism' argument. You'll lose. 'Realism' is evil characters being nonexistent in the party in the first place becaused they'd be kicked the hell out by any half-decent protagonist. 'Realism' is good characters cutting the protagonist's throat when the sleep the first time they kill an innocent instead of making a minor complaint.
'Realism' is not what you want.
The only way such a thing would be halfway 'realistic' is if all characters are basically good or at least decent, with a good playthrough proceeding more or less as normal and an evil playthough having the protagonist friendless and hated or barely tolerated by the end of the first act. Which wouldn't be much fun to play as a psychopath evil characters.
The more you try and shoehorn "Good vs. Evil" into the conversation, Bob, the more credibility you lose.
Idealism vs. Pragmatism =/= Good vs. Evil.
My evil elf pretty much ended up alone, save for Loghain, because everyone else jumped ship or got killed.
Maybe you should play the game before you weigh in on this.
No. Wrong. It's never been a question of 'Idealism vs. Pragmatism,' and Thank God, because that would make for a terrible story.
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