31 réponses à ce sujet

[Nyeredzi]

We know Thedas has hidden meanings from our world, like the Roman Catholic, or Muslim. Like Rivaini being Spain under Muslim occupation, and Antiva being Spain under Christian occupation.

 

In Thedas, you can look at it this way, the Arabs and the North Africans are both combined into one thing when they attacked Europe. Muslims. In Thedas, the Qunari. The horned pale ones being the Arabs, while the hornless dark ones being the North Africans (Again, hidden meanings, being hornless is a rare, and a feared anomaly among the Kossith Qunari). The Rivaini are the Spanish-Europeans (the Thedasians) which are being converted into Muslims (the Qun) by the Arabs and North Africans , the "Muslim" (which are the Kossith Qunari). The reason Rivain now has "black people" is because of the "diversity", and solely because of this historical fact. A small part of Europe had black people in it.

 

The Muslims (Horned Qunari) always wanted to invade Europe (Thedas) but failed when they tried to do so from "the other side" (the other side here being Turkey/Mordern Georgia (Tervinter/the Donarks in DA)). They decided to go through North Africa (The land to thedas that is Par Vollen), and North Africa fell to the Muslims(Qunari) easily. The North Africans and Arabs were now one when they invaded Europe. The Muslims. Representing why the kossith Qunari are one race "thing", and why Sten at first had black features, and why things changed drastically in DA2. The Muslims when entering spain, burned their boats saying if they cannot conquer it, they will never return home. (Here is why, maybe, the Qunari do not know anything about their original home, and why they do not care about it, they are told not to. Their original purpose is to take over thedas). After being conquered by both Africans and Arabs (Muslims/the religion of the Qun), Spain (Rivain) became ruled by the African Muslims for almost 800 years. 

 

The other representation of black people/Africans are the Fex. "A primitive, yet Sapient race which inhabited the "island" of Par Vollen (Northern Africa) before the Qunari (Muslims) arrived". The Fex are not known if they are human or not, however we do know that they have completely assimilated into the Qun(Muslim). (Again hidden meaning, only northen Africa fell to the Muslim. So this means Par Vollen is Northern African).

 

Time flux below.

 

The original place the first place humans came from was Par Vollen, where the primitive Fex (no longer primitive) (North Africans) reside. And these first humans were the Neromanians and other tribes that represent white people on Thedas. Who built the Pyramids on Par Vollen is unknown, but on Earth North Africans built them, and the Arabs/Muslims eventually conquered them. In Thedas the Qun(Muslims) conquered the Fex(North Africans), then left their own mark on Par Vollen (Northern Africa). If you go to North Africa it was and still is heavily influenced by Arabic/Muslim things.

 

Take an image of thedas and turn it up-side-down. 

 

Par Vollen is their metaphysical North Africa.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Thedas isn't supposed to be a direct analogue to places and people in history.

[Russian Berserker]

Yes...

[Nyeredzi]

Thedas isn't supposed to be a direct analogue to places and people in history.

Thedas contradicts you.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Thedas contradicts you.

 

It does not. Being loosely inspired by something does not make it a direct analogue.

[Feybrad]

Well, then Par Vollen may not be an Island. So what?

 

Is there any Point to this Discussion?

[Maria Caliban]

We know that the qunari have elaborate sail ships, which I assume are good enough for ocean travel.

Humans arrived in Thedas a couple thousand years ago, so unless there was some sort of technological collapse, they probably were not fit for ocean travel. That would mean moving along a coastline.

Par Vollen might be an island, but I don't believe that there's a large ocean between it and whatever landmass is to the north. Perhaps it's part of an archipelago.

Well, then Par Vollen may not be an Island. So what?

Is there any Point to this Discussion?

It's a nice break from 'What is [LI's] favorite flavor of ice cream?'

[Lucy Glitter]

Interesting idea. The writers have said a couple of times that things in Thedas may be based off of some modern or historial elements, they aren't exact in any way.

I always had a crazy conspiracy theory that Par Vollen is a massive land-ship that's been built on over time... but one day...

We know that the qunari have elaborate sail ships, which I assume are good enough for ocean travel.

Humans arrived in Thedas a couple thousand years ago, so unless there was some sort of technological collapse, they probably were not fit for ocean travel. That would mean moving along a coastline.

Par Vollen might be an island, but I don't believe that there's a large ocean between it and whatever landmass is to the north. Perhaps it's part of an archipelago.


It's a nice break from 'What is [LI's] favorite flavor of ice cream?'

"Can my Inquisitor be voiced by Christopher Walken" is another favourite discussion on here.

[Herr Uhl]

I'd say Antiva is closer to Italy than Spain (despite the accents). And a problem with your idea is that the only Qunari that visited Thedas before the invasion was in Ferelden. By all accounts, they came from a continent in the east rather than the north.

 

Thedas is loosely based around some nations in Europe from very disparate times and trying to mash it to fit real history mangles both real history and the game setting.

 

And humans were able to traverse small seas even tens of thousands of years ago, so I'm not sure why Par Vollen would have to be the original origin of the humans nor why it has to be a continent.

[Maria Caliban]

If what we know is true, and it might not be, human's suddenly appeared in Par Vollen. Not just a small group, but several different tribes representing a wide range of human ethnicities.

That sounds like a mass migration to me. Perhaps they were all refugees fleeing from something.

[javeart]

I'd say Antiva is closer to Italy than Spain (despite the accents). And a problem with your idea is that the only Qunari that visited Thedas before the invasion was in Ferelden. By all accounts, they came from a continent in the east rather than the north.

 

Thedas is loosely based around some nations in Europe from very disparate times and trying to mash it to fit real history mangles both real history and the game setting.

 

And humans were able to traverse small seas even tens of thousands of years ago, so I'm not sure why Par Vollen would have to be the original origin of the humans nor why it has to be a continent.

 

I agree about Antiva being closer to Italy, despite the accent. I think in fact that it's been stated elsewhere that the main inspiration was Venice. I think it's more a mix of different traits of mediterranean countries + lots of fantasy, of course. 

 

I also agree about a more loose relationship between real life history and geography and Thedas history and geography. Fr instance, Rivain, aside from Qun (muslim) invasion, doesn't sound much like Spain, for what little we know. I mean, Spain is not matriarchy, visigodes were christian (so no pantheism) and I didn't know them personally, but I'd bet they were just as materialistic as everyone else   

 

I love though how everyone tends to assimilate Rivain to Spain, because I think  Rivain sounds really cool 

[Captain Coffee]

The Qunari always struck me as a cross between communism and Buddhism. I don't see how they have anything in common with Islam at all.

[javeart]

The Qunari always struck me as a cross between communism and Buddhism. I don't see how they have anything in common with Islam at all.

 

I don't think it's about the Qun being really similar to Islam, but more about the relationship between medieval Christian Europe and medieval Islamic world. So basically the territorial wars and such

[Lucijenifer]

Yes, I think everyone understands that Thedas is likely on the Southern hemisphere of their world, just to make Bioware's fantasy setting seem a little more 'different.'

 

Whatever the case, it's quite clear that (at least from a geographical and political stand-point) the Qun is Islam, the Chantry is Roman Catholicism and the Black Chantry is Orthodox Christianity. If you like, compare the Tevinter Imperium's struggle with the Qunari to the constant warring between the Byzantine Empire and the Ottomans. To anyone who knows a moderate amount of history, all of the analogues are very obvious. It's the fantastical things, like the elves and the dwarves and the mages and the templars that keep our interest.

[dutch_gamer]

Yes, the analogues are very obvious but the OP believes everything is an absolute copy of our real world history in every facet, which it just isn't.

[Captain Coffee]

I understand what you guys are saying about the similarity of the wars, but the culture of Ferelden echoes England, the culture of Orlais echoes France and Antiva and Rivain echo Italy and Spain. I don't see how the culture of Tevinter looks anything like Orthodox Christianity or haw the culture of the Qun is anything like an Islamic culture. The external relationships are close, but the internal cultures are really nothing like the cultures people seem to want to compare them to.

[javeart]

I understand what you guys are saying about the similarity of the wars, but the culture of Ferelden echoes England, the culture of Orlais echoes France and Antiva and Rivain echo Italy and Spain. I don't see how the culture of Tevinter looks anything like Orthodox Christianity or haw the culture of the Qun is anything like an Islamic culture. The external relationships are close, but the internal cultures are really nothing like the cultures people seem to want to compare them to.

 

That's eactly why I don't see the analogy Spain-Rivain, it may works regarding the Qun-Islamic invasion, but not so much if we consider only culture. I personally think that real world inspirations are used much more loosely, even if the relationship between some pieces of Thedas history and medieval Europe history, as it's been already said, seems undeniable (like the chiasm between catholic and ortodox christianity and Orleasian and Tevinter Chantries)

[Lucijenifer]

I understand what you guys are saying about the similarity of the wars, but the culture of Ferelden echoes England, the culture of Orlais echoes France and Antiva and Rivain echo Italy and Spain. I don't see how the culture of Tevinter looks anything like Orthodox Christianity or haw the culture of the Qun is anything like an Islamic culture. The external relationships are close, but the internal cultures are really nothing like the cultures people seem to want to compare them to.

 

And that's exactly why I said this in my post:

 

(at least from a geographical and political stand-point)

 

I'm actually a little put-off by just how close Orlais is to France. I enjoy fantasy settings because they're well, fantasy settings. The closer they are to reality, the more I feel like I'm just reading history rather than what someone else has created. Orlais strikes me as being devoid of originality and I'd be utterly bored by it if it wasn't also home to the Chantry, which is interesting in its own way and is not as close to Christianity as some might consider, due to its relationship with magic.
The more different Dragon Age gets from reality and the more originality is shown, the happier I'll be.

[javeart]

And that's exactly why I said this in my post:

 

 

I'm actually a little put-off by just how close Orlais is to France. I enjoy fantasy settings because they're well, fantasy settings. The closer they are to reality, the more I feel like I'm just reading history rather than what someone else has created. Orlais strikes me as being devoid of originality and I'd be utterly bored by it if it wasn't also home to the Chantry, which is interesting in its own way and is not as close to Christianity as some might consider, due to its relationship with magic.
The more different Dragon Age gets from reality and the more originality is shown, the happier I'll be.

 

I feel the same way. Plus, sometimes there's just too much stereotypes, and can be even annoying, I'd say

[Nyeredzi]

I feel the same way. Plus, sometimes there's just too much stereotypes, and can be even annoying, I'd say

yup

[BlueMagitek]

Well, don't forget, there is magic in this setting, advanced nautical tools might not be required.  Or there could be a series of islands that they kept jumping from.

[Lucijenifer]

Well, don't forget, there is magic in this setting, advanced nautical tools might not be required.  Or there could be a series of islands that they kept jumping from.

 

Par Vollen is referred to as an island chain, after all.

[Nyeredzi]

Par Vollen is referred to as an island chain, after all.

Maybe, however Par Vollen is their metaphysical Africa

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Not really. We only know humans supposedly came to Thedas from Par Vollen. Not that it is where humans first sprang from. It's natives appear to be more loosely based on the Aztecs or the Mayans.

[Russian Berserker]

This concept could be true...so what?