Subterfuge does looks really good, but I'm liking all the rogue trees so far. I'm very attracted to that weird chain move in Sabotage, and to Poison Weapon, but by and large I'm having a lot of trouble deciding what to take, and which Spec to go for.
Yeah, I just want to be able to max trees, and i don't know if I can do that in this game. And yes, if I was going to max a tree for a rogue sabotage would be my second choice.
You'll likely be able to max 2 trees. With 12-14 points in the tree (excl. specialisations), and 30 levels, that's a minimum of two trees maxed, plus 2-3 points (bonus if human). Also unsure if you start level 1 with 1 or 2 talents, which will boost it up a bit. I'd also say that it's possible that we'll get the odd tome or quest that will give us a bonus point, but all told I'd be surprised if we could get more than 35 talent points in total. So about 2.5 trees.
You'll likely be able to max 2 trees. With 12-14 points in the tree (excl. specialisations), and 30 levels, that's a minimum of two trees maxed, plus 2-3 points (bonus if human). Also unsure if you start level 1 with 1 or 2 talents, which will boost it up a bit. I'd also say that it's possible that we'll get the odd tome or quest that will give us a bonus point, but all told I'd be surprised if we could get more than 35 talent points in total. So about 2.5 trees.
Yeah, its not that amount of points need that I am thinking about its the viability of builds I'm considering.
That was the dragon.
Greater Cold Resistance!! Theory confirmed? Goodbye immunities!? 
Greater Cold Resistance!! Theory confirmed? Goodbye immunities!?
Immunity: taunted. Looks difficult indeed.
Immunity: taunted. Looks difficult indeed.
I meant the annoying elemental immunities from DA2 Nightmare. Gone! (at least in this difficulty) Immunity to taunt is also annoying, indeed, but at least it's not "hey, you know this dwarven thug? he is immune to cold for no reason!"
I meant the annoying elemental immunities from DA2 Nightmare. Gone! (at least in this difficulty) Immunity to taunt is also annoying, indeed, but at least it's not "hey, you know this dwarven thug? he is immune to cold for no reason!"
Right I didn't really get the context of what you were saying and I'm glad you cleared that up for me. I wonder how much resistance to winter the dragon actually has? I'm assuming its a percentage of damage taken away.
Right I didn't really get the context of what you were saying and I'm glad you cleared that up for me. I wonder how much resistance to winter the dragon actually has? I'm assuming its a percentage of damage taken away.
Quite high for sure... it says "great resistance" haha I guess it's near immunity, but at least you can do something even if you are specialized in winter. A great relief for mages!
All of you making your builds... Keep in mind that specializations have around 10 skills easily, and once they are revealed you will most likely want to get more than just 3 or 4 skill points in there... Prepare yourself to re-think your builds!
I doubt that there will be anything all that useful among the Knight Enchanter passives, but I'm prepared for that nonetheless.
Inquisitor Lavellan (Knight Enchanter) (22-23 points)
As you can see, I have more than enough points left over to take passives from the KE tree if they turn out to be good, without having to sacrifice anything from the build. If those KE passives turn out to be mediocre, then I will chose between Flashpoint, Clean Burn, and Stormbringer... with the added bonus of gaining a non-ice spell or two along the way. I just need to create the most OP Spirit staff possible to maximize the benefits of Energy Barrage, and I'm all set.
That Ice Dragon got me thinking that I might not want to be this specialized, so I am considering swapping Ice Mine for Chain Lightning... if I do that, I will almost definitely take Stormbringer. But if I am taking Immolate in order to reach Flaspoint and Clean Burn, I might as well just take the upgrade and use that instead... hm... Either way, Ice Mine may have to go since it deals zero damage...
Hopefully it stays on "resistence" even on nightmare, immunity in DA II was a chore.
Taunt immunity seems great imo. Depending on how much aggro the tank generates, you can't spam the strongest attacks of your dd. Also positioning will be key for rogues with -25% threat generation or even -100% with flanking. It's a little mmo-y, but I like it.
Do we know what the level cap will be?
Hopefully it stays on "resistence" even on nightmare, immunity in DA II was a chore.
Taunt immunity seems great imo. Depending on how much aggro the tank generates, you can't spam the strongest attacks of your dd. Also positioning will be key for rogues with -25% threat generation or even -100% with flanking. It's a little mmo-y, but I like it.
Do we know what the level cap will be?
25-30... weak enemies stop giving exp entirely at a certain point, so it will be hard to reach the cap.
Everybody is posting about their mages' build... but I'm finding it incredibly difficult to do it with my DD rogue...
Spending 10-14 points in DD tree and 9-11 in Spec (I wanna know the rogue specs in detail!!) I have to decide between Substerfuge and Sabotage... And I want toxic cloud and throwing blades... because I've been waiting for Throwing blades since I saw Tallis... so it means Sabotage almost full (I don't see the usefulness in the Hook and Tackle skill) So I could only get Stealth and the threat reduction passive! 
I also wanted knockout powder... Hmmm... It seems I'll have to have 2 DD rogues, one with Sabotage, and one with Substerfuge!
Everybody is posting about their mages' build... but I'm finding it incredibly difficult to do it with my DD rogue...
Spending 10-14 points in DD tree and 9-11 in Spec (I wanna know the rogue specs in detail!!) I have to decide between Substerfuge and Sabotage... And I want toxic cloud and throwing blades... because I've been waiting for Throwing blades since I saw Tallis... so it means Sabotage almost full (I don't see the usefulness in the Hook and Tackle skill) So I could only get Stealth and the threat reduction passive!
Maybe you can give half of those powers to the Inquisitor and half of them to a DD party member?
I could have SWORE they said there would be an arcane tree for Mages. Clearly that's not the case. (IE no crushing prison or arcane bolt ((( )
So...with that being said I'll have to go KE+Spirit+a bit of frost if I can fit it in
I could have SWORE they said there would be an arcane tree for Mages. Clearly that's not the case. (IE no crushing prison or arcane bolt
So...with that being said I'll have to go KE+Spirit+a bit of frost if I can fit it in
I think Energy Barrage is supposed to be the new Arcane Bolt. Also it's possible Crushing Prison is in a specialisation
Maybe you can give half of those powers to the Inquisitor and half of them to a DD party member?
Yeah, I know, right? haha but I like being the only DD rogue in the party. Well, I like my PC to be the special one in the party. So if I'm a mage, only me as a mage, etc. (with some exceptions) And I usually play as my PC only, I spend a lot of time setting tactics for my companions so I don't need to micromanage them all the time, so I'd like to experience those abilities myself. What I mean is... all the options! haha it's impossible to try out every single thing a class has to offer in one playthrough...
Possibly, I'll do:
- Artificier Archer Rogue with heavy use of Substerfuge
- Tempest DD Rogue with heavy use of Sabotage
- Assassin DD Rogue with heavy use of Substerfuge
I wonder if Shadow strike can be used by archers... at range...
Yeah, I know, right? haha but I like being the only DD rogue in the party. Well, I like my PC to be the special one in the party. So if I'm a mage, only me as a mage, etc. (with some exceptions) And I usually play as my PC only, I spend a lot of time setting tactics for my companions so I don't need to micromanage them all the time, so I'd like to experience those abilities myself. What I mean is... all the options! haha it's impossible to try out every single thing a class has to offer in one playthrough...
Possibly, I'll do:
- Artificier Archer Rogue with heavy use of Substerfuge
- Tempest DD Rogue with heavy use of Sabotage
- Assassin DD Rogue with heavy use of Substerfuge
I wonder if Shadow strike can be used by archers... at range...
I'm counting on it. This is one of Cole's primary attacks in the build I made for him... if you notice, several skills say "bow required" or "two handed weapon required," so I think it's safe to assume that Shadow Strike is not dependent on weapon type...
As for the rest, yeah I hear you... personally I don't mind doubling up. I loved teaming up with Fenris as a 2 Handed warrior in DA2, for example... but I can understand not wanting to switch to other party members very often. I really only did that when Tactics weren't going to suffice or when somebody (*cough*Varric*cough*) was being swarmed by enemies and almost dead...
Well, there is always the possibility with respec potions. So there is a lot of room for testing builds. Since many talents offer passive stats boni, one could run into diminishing returns on scaling with end-game equip that also provides stats. It'll be interesting to max out builds, especially in MP where you'll likely spend more time on max level than in SP.
I'm counting on it. This is one of Cole's primary attacks in the build I made for him... if you notice, several skills say "bow required" or "two handed weapon required," so I think it's safe to assume that Shadow Strike is not dependent on weapon type...
As for the rest, yeah I hear you... personally I don't mind doubling up. I loved teaming up with Fenris as a 2 Handed warrior in DA2, for example... but I can understand not wanting to switch to other party members very often. I really only did that when Tactics weren't going to suffice or when somebody (*cough*Varric*cough*) was being swarmed by enemies and almost dead...
Yeah, maybe an archer can use it, but maybe not at range? you have to get close to an enemy to use it? The icon is misleading.
Sometimes I also go with 2 of the same class... with rogues I always have an archer and a DD.
Yeah, maybe an archer can use it, but maybe not at range? you have to get close to an enemy to use it? The icon is misleading.
Sometimes I also go with 2 of the same class... with rogues I always have an archer and a DD.
The icon is indeed misleading... that's the one thing that makes me doubt my theory. However, I think they would have said "daggers required" or mentioned that it was a short range attack... well, if we are wrong, there's always respec. 
Well, there is always the possibility with respec potions. So there is a lot of room for testing builds. Since many talents offer passive stats boni, one could run into diminishing returns on scaling with end-game equip that also provides stats. It'll be interesting to max out builds, especially in MP where you'll likely spend more time on max level than in SP.
Yup, it's good that they are making respec easy to use for those who want it. I'm definitely going to save my game before I commit to some of these abilities, because they sound a little strange and I want to make sure they work the way I imagine... I could probably use repec, but it depends on what those amulets cost. I'm kind of cheap... 
Is anybody else concerned about Ice Mine? I'm afraid it won't be a very effective ability.
We create one mine, it freezes an enemy for only 6 seconds (which is okay, I guess, but 10 would be nice, at least), has a delay of 3 seconds, and an 18 second cooldown time. It doesn't do any damage at all, and it only works on one enemy, which seems fairly limiting.
The thing that saved Glyph of Paralysis (one of my favs) in DA2 was that it could affect multiple targets, but it only became useful when upgraded (imo). Same thing with Ice Mine? It doesn't do any damage at all, and it only works on one enemy, which seems fairly limiting.
I hope its upgrade changes it to some type of wave of cold that can freeze anybody in a small radius.
Secondary Observation: The ice tree is not a tree for blasters. The only abilities that do damage at all that we know of so far are Winter's Grasp and Blizzard. That doesn't include upgrades, of course - Fade Step or Ice Mine might deal damage once upgraded for all we know. But still, this hit me last night.
Is anybody else concerned about Ice Mine? I'm afraid it won't be a very effective ability.
Spoiler
Yeah I was just thinking about that actually... Ice Mine has been part of my build for a while, but I'm starting to think it's a bit on the weak side... it looks nice for setting up combos, but I don't want my Inquisitor to be dependent on that, especially since it probably won't effect most bosses... Ice is a CC tree through and through, but Ice Mine is becoming hard for me to justify...
Regarding Ice Mine: It depends on how effictively it can freeze enemies (even 100% on high frost resistence?) and how many tough ones are immune to it.
Regarding Ice Mine: It depends on how effictively it can freeze enemies (even 100% on high frost resistence?) and how many tough ones are immune to it.
Well, that Ice Dragon is "Immune to All Disabling Effects," so that's at least one fight where it will serve no purpose... :/
Is anybody else concerned about Ice Mine? I'm afraid it won't be a very effective ability.
We create one mine, it freezes an enemy for only 6 seconds (which is okay, I guess, but 10 would be nice, at least), has a delay of 3 seconds, and an 18 second cooldown time. It doesn't do any damage at all, and it only works on one enemy, which seems fairly limiting.
The thing that saved Glyph of Paralysis (one of my favs) in DA2 was that it could affect multiple targets, but it only became useful when upgraded (imo). Same thing with Ice Mine? It doesn't do any damage at all, and it only works on one enemy, which seems fairly limiting.
I hope its upgrade changes it to some type of wave of cold that can freeze anybody in a small radius.
Secondary Observation: The ice tree is not a tree for blasters. The only abilities that do damage at all that we know of so far are Winter's Grasp and Blizzard. That doesn't include upgrades, of course - Fade Step or Ice Mine might deal damage once upgraded for all we know. But still, this hit me last night.
Yeah I was just thinking about that actually... Ice Mine has been part of my build for a while, but I'm starting to think it's a bit on the weak side... it looks nice for setting up combos, but I don't want my Inquisitor to be dependent on that, especially since it probably won't effect most bosses... Ice is a CC tree through and through, but Ice Mine is becoming hard for me to justify...
I'm guessing its a middle ground spell that you can use especially well on minibosses for instance. I don't think its meant to be a powerhouse spell, just one that you can use a lot. I'm guessing BW put a lot of time into balancing out the skill trees so I don't fear that it will be completely worthless. I typically make builds with a lot of disabling effects so dragons are going to be that much harder for me.
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