6397 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Its confirmed that there are only 4 base skill trees per class

False. That is entirely false information.

[Hellion Rex]

It's been answered in interviews and twitter. Each class has 4 tabs, but each tab has a lot more skills in it then the past game. I've made a post on this already but in DA2 the avg skills was about 5. That's not 5 skills you can use, that's 5 active, sustained or passives. The other 5 where upgrades. If you look at DAI each tab has 9 or 10 (except specializations which seem to have 7). Then somewhere from 3-5 upgrades on top of that (it's definitely isn't a set total like DA2).

Again, false. They have not said a word about the set up of skill trees in either interviews or on Twitter, so that is false information.

[Adhin]

"Four playable races, two genders, and a choice of voices, as well as our unique, brand new facial customization system that offers over a billion possible faces...21 different combat skill trees...over 250 combat abilities, talents and upgrades, allow you to fight the way you want. 16 million armor combinations that can be equipped on both you and your followers. Craft weapons and armor, going all the way down to customizing the hilt and the blade to make your weapons look the way you want and play the way you want."

 

http://kotaku.com/fi...xt-d-1584867161

 

In case anyone is shady on the math of 21/3, it's 7 skill trees, 3 of which are specialization trees. That leaves 4 skill trees. They've also stated the companions get the same stuff the player does for base skill trees, no trees missing there (but have a forced specialization of some kind).

 

Math, wooooo... math.

[Kage]

False. That is entirely false information.

 

Nope, see above. Maybe they havent said "there are 4 base skill trees per class", but the math is there.

 

In DA2 we had less actives, because it was a game that was heavily oriented to consoles, and not tactical/paused combat. Just hack 'n slash without pausing, if you wanted to play that way. (The way I would guess 90% of consoles gamers played it)

 

However, in DAI we will have 8 shortcuts instead of 6 for consoles, which means we can have more actives this time for each character.

If we use 8 short cooldown abilities for those shortcuts, and 4-6 more situational abilities from the wheel, we can use around 12-14 abilities in a playthrough without being bothered of having too many or having to pause too much while playing. If there are only around 30-50% of upgrades this time around, that would mean we could have invested 16-21 points in abilities. Since a playthrough might have around 25 levels, its qite a good number.

 

I think they managed to get a good number of skills and abilities. What concerns me now is that they create enough situational skills, such as haste or revive, skills that you are not going to use all the time and therefor does not need to be mapped, and be left in the wheel.

[LexXxich]

What also bothers me is that stuff I've seen of Fire and Ice trees looks fairly identical, with just element-based differences like visuals and element-appropriate status effects.
1. Single target spell (Flashfire/Winter's Grasp)
2. AoE spell (Fireball/Cone of Cold)
3. Wall of *** spell
4. Glyph of *** spell
5. Big AoE (Firestorm/Blizzard - likely Focus dependent).
Unless unseen passives offer some game-changing modifiers and not just stat bonuses like "+25% Burning duration", all those spells could be safely put into one tree and the element they use could be selected by staff's element of "Fire/Ice/Earth/Lighting attunement" sustainables.

[Adhin]

Yeah, though there is only so much you can do with elemental stuff Lexx. I think the biggest difference comes in the form of the element. Fire fears, Cold freezes. I actually like that both have a wall skill. They might both be walls but they function differently in many ways. For instance fire can be passed through, all be it with taking fire dmg, arrows and other projectiles can pass through. Ice wall on the other hand is a physical barrier, doesn't harm anything but will completely block anything from passing, including projectiles.

 

I agree to some extent they could of been a single tree and had staff element determine it, but I'm also kinda happy they didn't. At least between the 2 elements they serve some mild difference in style and effect. If you where to add lightning, nature and spirit, or even physical into the mix it would seem even mo convoluted and you'd be far to tied to what kind of staff you could use. Not as big of an issue with crafting im sure but still.

 

It is one reason I believe lightning and nature don't get there own trees though. Ultimately Lightning would function just like Fire but with out fear, instead using stun. Nature would end up being the same as Ice but with knock backs or paralyze. Wall spells would be the same with no tactical difference. Think that's why they've mixed into other trees with more unique spells that fit that style more. Like Chain lightning or the Stone Fist.

[LaughingWolf]

I really hate the setup we've seen of the mages skill trees. It's be a lot better IMO if the trees were setup (since there can only be 4 base trees):
Elemental/Primal
Arcane
Spirit
Enthropy
I personally see no reason why elemental and primal can't be one tree, but two works just as fine; although having two seperate trees for just fire and ice skills - which Most are interchangeable - is just silly.

[themageguy]

In the winter branch it looks like the mages evasion skill is in it.

if that's the case, it may be indicative that the winter and fire branches may not just contain elemental options.

I like that there's a winter and inferno branch. Reading the comics and novels primal magic has always been a staple of a mages repertoire.

[The Night Haunter]

In the winter branch it looks like the mages evasion skill is in it.

if that's the case, it may be indicative that the winter and fire branches may not just contain elemental options.

I like that there's a winter and inferno branch. Reading the comics and novels primal magic has always been a staple of a mages repertoire.

If you also take into account we only know 1/2 the skills in Inferno, then we also could have other non-fire-only spells in Inferno. People just love jumping to conclusions though. 'The 4 skills we've seen are cut and paste elemental stuff so the other 4 must be as well!'.

[mikeymoonshine]

I dunno, Inferno looks very fire based to me all the symbols have flames in their design. However it does talk about dominating the battlefield so I am guessing there will be allot more verity in how these spells work. It's possible that there are some force mage like abilities in the tree than just also do fire based damage. 

[wowsuper]

Are you bloody KIDDING ME, Bioware?! Just FUC*ING FOUR basic spell trees, with five active spells per tree?! And two, I mean TWO trees completely elemental-oriented?! This is beyond good and evil. I can't believe this is the state of the magic system in inquisition, not after I hoped so much for a return to the variety and richness of the Origins' system. They're cutting more and more spells and talents merging them together and pauperising the gameplay in a indecent, unbearable way. I'm disgusted.

[Statare]

In the winter branch it looks like the mages evasion skill is in it.

if that's the case, it may be indicative that the winter and fire branches may not just contain elemental options.

I like that there's a winter and inferno branch. Reading the comics and novels primal magic has always been a staple of a mages repertoire.

 

The Winter tree had at one point "'Blink Thing'" and "Seeker Swarm" but the later might be out of the tree, as of the recent combat video, but we are unsure. These abilities seem to have replaced the 'Wall of Ice' and 'Frost Glyph' abilities.

 

 

If you also take into account we only know 1/2 the skills in Inferno, then we also could have other non-fire-only spells in Inferno. People just love jumping to conclusions though. 'The 4 skills we've seen are cut and paste elemental stuff so the other 4 must be as well!'.

 

We actually do know all the abilities in the current Inferno tree (there are 5), what we don't know are 3 of the passives (there are 4), but the passives are just that, passives, and not abilities of a different element/school of magic. Example, the known passive is Pyromancer which increases damage from the Burn effect and increases effectiveness of the horror mechanic. The 5 Inferno abilities are: Flashfire (single target damage), Flame Burst (aoe damage, the new Fireball), Fire Mine (glyph), Fire Wall (damaging barrier), and Firestorm (powerful aoe). All these have been seen in videos and matched to their respective icons in the most recent Inferno tree.

 

The 5 Winter spells are less known but the best sleuthing puts it at: Winter's Grasp (single target damage seen in combat video), Cone of Cold (guess, unseen in any video), "Blink Thing" (last seen at PAX demo, but the icon has been seen more recently), Seeker Swarm/Unknown (staff-element determined burst of missiles, seen in all videos), and Blizzard (seen in Redcliffe Castle segment of E3).

 

So, as it stands, the Inferno line is pure fire with an inbuilt horror mechanic. But Fire has always, since DA:O, had some debilitating effect somewhere (knock back in DAO, and flailing/knock back in DA2). All other trees seem to be hybrids, at this point, but they have all changed every time we have seen them, so I'd not bet on them not changing.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm curious as to why they plop Seeker Swarm into the Winter tree when it's been shown to change elemental properties...

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm still hoping to be able to play a crowd-control mage. My most recent run through DAO was with a mage who just did crowd control, with almost no damage. With the Paralysis and Glyph and Sleep lines, you could have a functional combat mage who didn't do direct damage.

[wowsuper]

I'm still hoping to be able to play a crowd-control mage. My most recent run through DAO was with a mage who just did crowd control, with almost no damage. With the Paralysis and Glyph and Sleep lines, you could have a functional combat mage who didn't do direct damage.

 

It seems this will be impossible this way around. If I look closely, even the entropy spell tree has icons which make me believe that "entropy" is just the way they labeled the "lightning-based tree". So we'll actually have three elemental trees out of four, which makes very difficult, if not almost impossible to build a crowd control, non-damage-oriented mage. And even if you manage to do that, you'll be restricted to a tiny pool of spells. NICE SH*T Bioware, you're so good at fuc*ing up your spell systems.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

With regards to mages, from the Kotaku article, we know that there are 21 skill trees in total. Since we have three classes, that means we have 7 skill trees each for mages, warriors and rogues. Additionally, since there are three specializations for each class, that leaves each class with 4 class talent skill trees and three specialization trees. 

 

This was stated by some of the posters above and I just decided to just put it here for sake of clarity. 

 

This implies that we will have 4 mage spell trees and then the three specialization spell trees, from which you can either choose one or not choose one at all. 

 

If we take this line of reasoning even further and combine it with the information we have obtained so far from the demo videos, I would say that The Magequisitor will only have :- 

 

Fire, Winter, Spirit, Entropy + Lightning as our basic skill trees followed by Knight Enchanter, Necromancer and Rift Mage as our specialization trees.

 

I don't know about you people but the whole idea of having two separate skill trees for inverse and opposites of elements, fire and frost, is just plain wasteful. Additionally, lighting deals shock damage and entropy is supposed to deal spirit damage, yet the Spirit tree is a limited support tree. 

 

I have clearly outlined a way for Bioware to just make a tree just for Elements in one of the previous posts which would leave space for other schools of magic to be used by the mages. 

 

Reality is, from the information we have seen so far, mages seem to be getting the short end of the stick.

 

The mage schools abilities have decreased both in number and variety. In Origins we had 5 schools of magic skill trees, Arcane, Primal,Creation, Spirit and Entropy. Each one served a special purpose, Primal focused on damage and some crowd control whereas Creation focused on healing and Entropy focused on debuffs. In Origins we also had 6 specialization skill trees, Arcane Warrior, Blood Mage, Shapeshifter, Spirit Healer, Battlemage and Keeper. Once again, each one had unique roles. Battlemage was an AOE Aura Nuker, Blood Mage a Nuking Controller, Arcane Warrior a Tank, Shapeshifter a utility, Spirit Healer for Support and Keeper for Area Druid.

 

In Dragon Age 2, we had 6 schools of magic skill lines, Primal, Elemental, Arcane, Creation, Spirit Entropy. Once again, each one was different.In Dragon Age 2, we had three specialization trees, Blood Mage, Force Mage and Spirit Healer. 

 

So far, in Dragon Age Inquisition, we have only four magic skill trees and two of them look to be mirror opposites of one another, Fire and Winter. Support and debuffs are also seems to be limited to one tree, Spirit. We also have powerful top tier spells, being completely divested from being able to be cast via mana and turned into Focus instead. I for one have no idea how party coordination helps a mage cast Firestorm or Blizzard or Haste. Since when was it written that magical spells are powered by party coordination as opposed to mana ? 

 

The whole Focus thing makes no sense to me. If they want to encourage party coordination things of similar nature, then it would make sense to develop Cross Class Combos like that in DA2 as well as Spell Combinations of DA:O. On top of that, if they decide to have Focus, it should be tailored to benefiting the party and improving the party as opposed to gating certain spells and talents. 

 

I am of the opinion that in order to have Focus in game and not have it clash with fundamental lore such as magical abilities either use mana or blood or taint and combat talents use stamina or blood, they should have a separate skill tree for Focus and have Focus abilities. Focus abilities are not related to any class abilities but they buff the party up if the party coordinate successfully. Examples would be, sufficient coordination leads to improved damage or movement speed or regeneration. It would make a lot more sense to have Focus as a "In the zone" ability, not a gate to mage spells. 

 

This IS a single player game after all. 

 

All in all ,since we do not have a lot of information on specializations, I will not comment on them but when it comes to the basic skill trees and in fact leveling, yeah I am left wondering why they did what they did. I mean the world space is bigger, there are more types of enemies, magic is going haywire...and yet...We have less schools of magic available and they are not as diverse, we have some spells being blocked via Focus as opposed to Mana and we have the same level cap as we did for Origins yet we know that the entire area of Hinterlands alone is bigger than all of Origins combined. 

 

This just means that there are much less ways to spec and build a mage which completely go against the point of choice and customization in an RPG game. 
 

You would think with a game this big, there would be more leveling and more skill trees available. 

 

I am interested in hearing the rationale behind these decisions really. 

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I'm still hoping to be able to play a crowd-control mage. My most recent run through DAO was with a mage who just did crowd control, with almost no damage. With the Paralysis and Glyph and Sleep lines, you could have a functional combat mage who didn't do direct damage.

 

I don't think you can. Apparently Bioware these days is of the opinion that mages should have limited support abilities and just focus on nuking and elementals. If not they would not create such a, frankly, messy mage skill tree. Fire and Ice are now separate even though they are just opposites of one another. Lighting which does shock damage is now somehow related to entropy which does spirit damage. At the same time, spirit school is now a limited support tree as opposed to creation or arcane.

 

Talk about lore butchering. 

[Hellion Rex]

I don't think you can. Apparently Bioware these days is of the opinion that mages should have limited support abilities and just focus on nuking and elementals. If not they would not create such a, frankly, messy mage skill tree. Fire and Ice are now separate even though they are just opposites of one another. Lighting which does shock damage is now somehow related to entropy which does spirit damage. At the same time, spirit school is now a limited support tree as opposed to creation or arcane.

 

Talk about lore butchering. 

Perhaps we should wait to see what the finalized trees look like before criticizing it all.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Perhaps we should wait to see what the finalized trees look like before criticizing it all.

 

I used to wait before, then I got DA 2 and ME 3. So when it comes to giving feedback to Bioware, I would rather do it while the game is in alpha or beta stage as opposed to when its released and more difficult to fix. 

 

My criticisms are based on information from DA videos and articles. So I am not making them up. 

 

IMO, Bioware should group all elements under a single tree, bring back actual entropy, offensive spirit spells and enhancements in creation, arcane talents from awakening such as the aura spells. Additionally, Focus should not be used as a source for spells, it would be better to use it as a resource to buff your party to encourage teamwork. 

[themageguy]

Huh.
sure i loved the paralysis glyph spells, but if ice can offer a similar condition ( paralysis / frozen), yet also deal damage and make said enemy vulnerable to being shattered via combos....surely the frost spell is the superior choice?
Also, seeing as the Venatori seem to have fire resistance, im hoping that the passives in the inferno tree can bypass some of that resistance.
On the other hand, they have a weakness to frost so all those icy spells are going to come in handy.

Also, good on bioware for addressing many of the wants fans have had for the series since origins.
a few years ago, a dalish mage option was merely wishful thinking, now we're getting the opportunity to play as one.
Dragon age 2 limited spells, and no blizzard spell....there are/ were many topics on the disappointment many fans had with spell choice in the game, now in inquisition look at the spells we're seeing! Awesomeness. And personally in happy blizzard is back.

People seem to prefer to bring on hate than to encourage and appreciate the things we've seen so far.....which of course could change anyways...

[Icy Magebane]

I used to wait before, then I got DA 2 and ME 3. So when it comes to giving feedback to Bioware, I would rather do it while the game is in alpha or beta stage as opposed to when its released and more difficult to fix.

Unfortunately, we're well past that point.  It's just a matter of how much they want to tell us about the finished product.

[The Night Haunter]

*snip*

We actually do know all the abilities in the current Inferno tree (there are 5), 

Actually I counted 3 abilities (diamonds) that weren't shown directly on the demo. 1 on the left beneath pyromancer at the center of the bottom of the tree. 2 on the right side that the demo didn't go through at all. Given we know Firewall is on there somewhere, and probably firestorm as well that leaves at least 1 active ability open, plus passives and sustains (I think there was 1 on the right).

So we don't know all the abilities I'm afraid.

[The Night Haunter]

Perhaps we should wait to see what the finalized trees look like before criticizing it all.

Blasphemy! Wait until we know what we're talking about before criticizing it? This is the internet, there is no room for logic here!

[Hellion Rex]

Actually I counted 3 abilities (diamonds) that weren't shown directly on the demo. 1 on the left beneath pyromancer at the center of the bottom of the tree. 2 on the right side that the demo didn't go through at all. Given we know Firewall is on there somewhere, and probably firestorm as well that leaves at least 1 active ability open, plus passives and sustains (I think there was 1 on the right).

So we don't know all the abilities I'm afraid.

Umm, we do know what the diamonds are though...

The one underneath Pyromancer is Fire Mine

The one across from that is Fire Wall

The one at the bottom is Firestorm, which we saw Viv charging up.

[The Night Haunter]

Umm, we do know what the diamonds are though...

The one underneath Pyromancer is Fire Mine

The one across from that is Fire Wall

The one at the bottom is Firestorm, which we saw Viv charging up.

The one at the bottom center of the tree we don't know. I'm not counting the fire mine in the 3 that we don't see. Beneath Fire Mine is a passive, and beneath that is the 3rd active we don't know.