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[Hellion Rex]

The one at the bottom center of the tree we don't know.

0:51 in the video. Look at Viv's character portrait. It is Firestorm.

[Statare]

Actually I counted 3 abilities (diamonds) that weren't shown directly on the demo. 1 on the left beneath pyromancer at the center of the bottom of the tree. 2 on the right side that the demo didn't go through at all. Given we know Firewall is on there somewhere, and probably firestorm as well that leaves at least 1 active ability open, plus passives and sustains (I think there was 1 on the right).

So we don't know all the abilities I'm afraid.

 

Sorry, but we do.

 

The one on the left beneath pyromancer is "Fire Mine", look at the OP, there is a screen cap of it (with a description) from the most recent combat video. The two on the right side are Fire Wall (the icon matches the fire wall used in the most recent demo), and then Flame Burst, which matches the ability used in the Redcliffe Demo with the Dwarf Inquisitor. The last one, of the most recent, combat demo tree, is Firestorm, as seen in PAX and the most recent demo. But the Inferno tree when called the Discord tree had two final tier abilities, but they are hard to see, but the most recent one ends in one ability, and that is Firestorm. So we do know all of them.

[llandwynwyn]

Huh.
sure i loved the paralysis glyph spells, but if ice can offer a similar condition ( paralysis / frozen), yet also deal damage and make said enemy vulnerable to being shattered via combos....surely the frost spell is the superior choice?

1)There's a thing called elemental immunity and

2) Glyph on some enemies + ice on others = superior for crowd control

[The Night Haunter]

0:51 in the video. Look at Viv's character portrait. It is Firestorm.

Ok then one of the other two right side abilities we don't know. My point is that three of the abilities in the Inferno tree weren't shown in that demo, 2 of those we may know (probably know). 1 of them is unknown.

[Morroian]

I used to wait before, then I got DA 2 and ME 3. So when it comes to giving feedback to Bioware, I would rather do it while the game is in alpha or beta stage as opposed to when its released and more difficult to fix. 

 

DA2 skill trees were better than DAO so in this case that is irrelevant. I've been critical to but we do have to wait to see the final trees. 

[The Night Haunter]

DA2 skill trees were better than DAO so in this case that is irrelevant. I've been critical to but we do have to wait to see the final trees. 

One of the few improvements DA2 made over the original. Branching trees (slightly branching, but thats better than 100% linearity), and upgrades (DAO had upgrades, but they were essentially passive's who effect was only to boost certain skills, DA2 made it more obvious which talents were upgrades and which were more general passives.)

[Sylvius the Mad]

Huh.
sure i loved the paralysis glyph spells, but if ice can offer a similar condition ( paralysis / frozen), yet also deal damage and make said enemy vulnerable to being shattered via combos....surely the frost spell is the superior choice?

My crowd control Warden felt it was inappropriate to use the Maker's gift to kill.

More options give us greater roleplaying opportunities.

[themageguy]

1)There's a thing called elemental immunity and

2) Glyph on some enemies + ice on others = superior for crowd control

And most boss enemy units are immune to paralysis.

[themageguy]

My crowd control Warden felt it was inappropriate to use the Maker's gift to kill.

More options give us greater roleplaying opportunities.

Of course it does, I've rolled a similar(not the same) sort of character before in origins - cone of cold, blizzard, glyph of repulsion and paralysis and stonefist were my fav spells ( which is why i was annoyed in dragon age 2 they split up primal school).
I was just pointing out that the mechanic between frozen and paralysis were similar enough that if for whatever reason we didn't get the option for glyph of paralysis or a entropic paralysis spell that at least ice magic can provide a alternative with some added benefits

[Sylvius the Mad]

And most boss enemy units are immune to paralysis.

Are they?

I paralyzed Flemeth in DAO.

[The Night Haunter]

Are they?

I paralyzed Flemeth in DAO.

I think he was referring to DA2, cause I don't think anything was full-out immune in DAO. All the human bosses were, of course, paralyze able, and the Dragons also were vulnerable (but fairly resistant). In DA2 bosses were immune or incredibly resistant to almost all debuff/support abilities.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think he was referring to DA2, cause I don't think anything was full-out immune in DAO. All the human bosses were, of course, paralyze able, and the Dragons also were vulnerable (but fairly resistant). In DA2 bosses were immune or incredibly resistant to almost all debuff/support abilities.

I have little or no memory of DA2. I so thoroughly disliked it that it hasn't stayed in my mind.

[themageguy]

Are they?

I paralyzed Flemeth in DAO.

You should take note i said most, not all.
Mostly i was referring to dragon age 2.

[llandwynwyn]

And most boss enemy units are immune to paralysis.

I don't know what you're trying to argue.

That just reforces my point that both is better.

[themageguy]

I think he was referring to DA2, cause I don't think anything was full-out immune in DAO. All the human bosses were, of course, paralyze able, and the Dragons also were vulnerable (but fairly resistant). In DA2 bosses were immune or incredibly resistant to almost all debuff/support abilities.

well said.

[themageguy]

I don't know what you're trying to argue.

That just reforces my point that both is better.

You made a point on elemental immunity. I made a point on paralysis immunity / resistance.
Having both is optimal, for sure, that undead immune to your frost? Hit it with a paralysis spell. That demon resisting your paralysis spell? Hit it with ice.

I just figured that if they did decide to take out paralysis spells, at least ice spells provide some sort of an alternative option with added benefits for the lack of a traditional paralysis spell.

[Gamemako]

In DA2 bosses were immune or incredibly resistant to almost all debuff/support abilities.

And normal enemies were randomly immune to elements.

//EDIT: Yes, that was for emphasis.

[andy6915]

Said this in the magic skill thread, fits here too.

 

We have gone from 6 non-specialization trees to 4. Yeah... That sucks. Feels like this series just keeps getting simpler. Considering 2 of those 4 trees are weapon trees for rogues and warriors, that leaves warriors and rogues stuck leveling just their weapon tree and 2 other trees and their specializations. Talk about dumbing down.

[The Night Haunter]

Said this in the magic skill thread, fits here too.

 

We have gone from 6 non-specialization trees to 4. Yeah... That sucks. Feels like this series just keeps getting simpler. Considering 2 of those 4 trees are weapon trees for rogues and warriors, that leaves warriors and rogues stuck leveling just their weapon tree and 2 other trees and their specializations. Talk about dumbing down.

Since there are more abilities than in DA2 I think you're overreacting a bit. Before going off and assuming less is always bad let's wait and see the final trees before assuming they are going to suck.

 

In my opinion less is better, I often never got the highest abilities in the Arcane tree, even though they were awesome, because I didn't like the prereqs. With fewer trees more of the abilities I would already have taken will count as prereqs toward skills I do want.

[andy6915]

And it occurs to me that just about every Inquisitor is going to be cookie-cutter now. Think about it, with so few options every player is going to level in the same general manner as everyone else. Indeed, character "builds" in DAI aren't going to feel that unique from one another anymore (hence my air quote of "builds"). Instead of each build having different feels and often feeling wildly different from other ones, now each one is going to feel maybe 15% different than another build and will be pretty much the same as any other build except with minor differences.

 

This just sounds better and better...

[mikeymoonshine]

Said this in the magic skill thread, fits here too.

 

We have gone from 6 non-specialization trees to 4. Yeah... That sucks. Feels like this series just keeps getting simpler. Considering 2 of those 4 trees are weapon trees for rogues and warriors, that leaves warriors and rogues stuck leveling just their weapon tree and 2 other trees and their specializations. Talk about dumbing down.

 

Hmm it really depends on how they do the trees, I am not fond of less options but if they are done well then it could actually turn out better. There are more abilities in the trees and the elemental trees for the mage seem to have more of a tactical edge, that wasn't a thing in DA2. 

 

I also found allot of the trees in DA2 kinda pointless, There were some warrior trees that I just never put points into and why so many stealth based trees for the rogue?

 

 

And it occurs to me that just about every Inquisitor is going to be cookie-cutter now. Think about it, with so few options every player is going to level in the same general manner as everyone else. Indeed, character "builds" in DAI aren't going to feel that unique from one another anymore (hence my air quote of "builds"). Instead of each build having different feels and often feeling wildly different from other ones, now each one is going to feel maybe 15% different than another build and will be pretty much the same as any other build except with minor differences.

 

This just sounds better and better...

 

I feel like this is an over simplification, there are still lots of options to choose from. You can spec a mage towards support and healing for example, I don't see this as 15% different to a damage dealing elemental magic based mage. That is anything but a minor difference. 

 

Sure it looks a bit worrying now but lets not be overly pessimistic. 

[Gamemako]

Since there are more abilities than in DA2 I think you're overreacting a bit. Before going off and assuming less is always bad let's wait and see the final trees before assuming they are going to suck.

That's abilities + passives + upgrades. The number of abilities per tree seems to be 1 more than DA2, with 4 trees to pick from instead of 7. Result: equivalent of 2 fewer trees to pick from. One of these is the reduction of spec points from 2 to 1, and the other is probably the reduction in sustained abilities. In DA2, I liked to have Merrill run around with 4 sustained abilities active (especially hilarious before the Improved Blood Magic nerf, when I got like 7 mana per HP). The main problem is that they've cut too much and are left with something that, while it shouldn't be too hard to balance, is rather restrictive.

We're looking at ~13 points per main tree and 10 per spec. If you can reach level 30, start with 3 points at level 1 (like DA:O) and get up to 3 from other sources (like DA2, and I believe DA:O offered even more), then you'll have 35 points. That's enough to max weapon and most of both other trees, or weapon, one tree, and a spec. DA2 restricted you from 20 points out of 90 (exactly) where DA:I restricts you from ~33 out of ~83, meaning it's really a practicable 70 vs. 50. No way around it; it's a nontrivial reduction.

//EDIT: And with specs counting more from a story standpoint in DA:I, if you wanted to avoid that baggage (especially for warrior), then you've got basically one build.

[andy6915]

I feel like this is an over simplification, there are still lots of options to choose from. You can spec a mage towards support and healing for example, I don't see this as 15% different to a damage dealing elemental magic based mage. That is anything but a minor difference.

 

There is no healing outside of focus mode, and support is tucked away on a backburner in spirit with barely any talents to its name.

[The Night Haunter]

That's abilities + passives + upgrades. The number of abilities per tree seems to be 1 more than DA2, with 4 trees to pick from instead of 7. Result: equivalent of 2 fewer trees to pick from. One of these is the reduction of spec points from 2 to 1, and the other is probably the reduction in sustained abilities. In DA2, I liked to have Merrill run around with 4 sustained abilities active (especially hilarious before the Improved Blood Magic nerf, when I got like 7 mana per HP). The main problem is that they've cut too much and are left with something that, while it shouldn't be too hard to balance, is rather restrictive.

We're looking at ~13 points per main tree and 10 per spec. If you can reach level 30, start with 3 points at level 1 (like DA:O) and get up to 3 from other sources (like DA2, and I believe DA:O offered even more), then you'll have 35 points. That's enough to max weapon and most of both other trees, or weapon, one tree, and a spec. DA2 restricted you from 20 points out of 90 (exactly) where DA:I restricts you from ~33 out of ~83, meaning it's really a practicable 70 vs. 50. No way around it; it's a nontrivial reduction.

//EDIT: And with specs counting more from a story standpoint in DA:I, if you wanted to avoid that baggage (especially for warrior), then you've got basically one build.

It's actually 4 instead of 6. If you are counting specializations then it is 5 instead of 7.

 

Plus the dev's have confirmed there are at least as many abilities as DA2, so all that math is a little pointless unless you think the devs are lying.

[The Night Haunter]

There is no healing outside of focus mode, and support is tucked away on a backburner in spirit with barely any talents to its name.

Really? You've seen the full spell list? Care to share?