6397 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

I'm just not sure that it'll ever be necessary to allow mooks to get within melee range for guard to be relevant. I mean, if you're playing with more unconventional builds like KE maybe, but it seems to me that like every other DA game, nuker mages will be very good at obliterated enemies with clever use of chokepoints. You even have spells to make your own now.  

The taunt ability that I've seen most often has been a ranged ability... I think it is called Challenge.  Whenever a foe is successfully taunted, Guard increases by a small amount (this might be due to an upgrade to the skill...).  There is also an AoE called War Cry that worked the same way as the DA2 Taunt ability, but Guard increases for every successfully taunted enemy...

 

So there is a long range and a short range AoE version this time... even if you don't want to get within melee range, using Challenge from a distance would still boost the warrior's defense a bit... If you don't want to use Warriors at all, however, then that probably isn't enough to convince you... xD

 

Personally, I'm starting to think that a well built team of 4 mages will be able to handle anything in the game, but I'll have to see the other 2 specializations before I commit to that.

[In Exile]

The taunt ability that I've seen most often has been a ranged ability... I think it is called Challenge.  Whenever a foe is successfully taunted, Guard increases by a small amount (this might be due to an upgrade to the skill...).  There is also an AoE called War Cry that worked the same way as the DA2 Taunt ability, but Guard increases for every successfully taunted enemy...

 

So there is a long range and a short range AoE version this time... even if you don't want to get within melee range, using Challenge from a distance would still boost the warrior's defense a bit... If you don't want to use Warriors at all, however, then that probably isn't enough to convince you... xD

 

Personally, I'm starting to think that a well built team of 4 mages will be able to handle anything in the game, but I'll have to see the other 2 specializations before I commit to that.

 

But to me it seems worthless, again, because it encourages enemies to zero in on a single target. I actually think that's much less effective in cleaning out mooks where the mooks aren't basically huge HP sponges, because their movements are uncoordinated and that makes it easier for them to be picked off.

 

This is all in the abstract, though - I'd have to actually play the game to see what works and doesn't. 

At least in DA:O/DA2, though, I found taunt worthless. 

[Icy Magebane]

But to me it seems worthless, again, because it encourages enemies to zero in on a single target. I actually think that's much less effective in cleaning out mooks where the mooks aren't basically huge HP sponges, because their movements are uncoordinated and that makes it easier for them to be picked off.

 

This is all in the abstract, though - I'd have to actually play the game to see what works and doesn't. 

At least in DA:O/DA2, though, I found taunt worthless. 

Well, I'm not saying that setting up chokepoints and killzones isn't an effective technique, because it is... I guess I'm just looking for a way to make all of the classes useful.  I'm sure that I will try them all at some point and I like to rotate party members, so I'm trying to think up useful ways for every class and spec to be incorporated into the team in advance... I doubt that all of these ideas will be optimal, but so long as we survive the battle and I have fun doing so, that's good enough for me. 

 

I do attempt to avoid allies being knocked unconscious at all costs though, so it's not like having 1 person survive a hard fight still counts as a victory for me... I do have some standards, so even if there are more efficient ways to build a party, I still try to come up with the best options for utilizing whoever I have on hand.

[Adhin]

Keep in mind in DA2 your health auto-regenerated after every fight, as long as 1 survived it's like the fight never happened. So maybe you where fine not ever using taunt, but I used it. I liked to keep things tight and ensure my other forces weren't being swamped by a bunch of adds or 'mooks'. As Icy said, warriors build guard now, taunt is one method of doing that. If I can keep most enemies on my warrior(s) via taunt while keeping their guard up giving my ranged free reign, why not do that?

 

Against dragons, sure, taunt maybe a skill I swap out when I see a dragon if I can't obtain guard even on a failed taunt. I'm not actually sure if I can use Counter Attack to avoid a dragon's claw attack. From a game mechanic, it probably doesn't care whats doing it. Mentally (and if this was an action game) that would be an uncounterable attack altogether which would make that skill pointless too, but I intend to use it constantly.

 

In the end, there are only 10 dragons in the game, or at least that's the number we've heard. Swapping a skill out just for those fights isn't exactly a huge ordeal for me. And I doubt all the bosses will just be immune to taunt but im sure something else besides dragon will end up getting that tag. Probably some kind of demon or something, or an enraged spirit or something that blatantly ignores people and just does whatever.

 

I'm sure some effective means of combat will involve Icewall, static cage and a lot of AoE where warriors wont have a place unless FF is turned off. But hey, that's more a choice on how you want to play then anything else. Often times whats most effective is an objective thing, what works for you, doesn't always work great for others. Granted somethings are universally better, in general, the others but as a whole peoples preferences tend to orient them towards a specific play style vs others.

 

I mean you can say choke points make it easy, but how're you going to choke point on the open desert planes? What if your going up against a bunch of archers spread out? From what we've seen of Rifts there generally aren't a lot of choke points to be used, and then get shuttered in around the area not all in 1 tight nit group. Taunt's generally how you deal with group management like that, blatantly ignoring it cause of a few situations... Meh, whatever, everyone does what they want - and I don't wanna ignore taunt.

[Shahadem]

@Medhia_Nox: Your missing the point. The skill its self is fine, no one (well not in here, anyway) is looking at the skill and scoffing at its impossibility with in a world of fireballs and warriors making fissures (least game mechanic wise, they're split after all, well to some extent). It's that they have said all specialization skills aren't dependent on a specific weapon type. If you look at all the artificer skills, this is true except Hail of Arrows on Varric (which is in the Artificer tree).

 

I'm looking at it and scoffing at its impossibility.

 

Magic makes perfect sense in this game world. But since physics still applies, a crossbow can't transfer enough energy to 10-20 bolts and have all those bolts be capable of penetrating flesh, let alone armor. I'm not even going to discuss how it is mechanistically impossible to fit 10-20 bolts on a crossbow or get 10-20 bolts to fire from a single crossbow at the same time and have them all travel in a small cluster.

 

Now if you were using a specially designed Ballista, then it would be possible. Just so long as you don't try to backstab with it.

[Adhin]

@Shahadem: ...ok? Not the point, again, but I have a feeling you know that and just wanted to complain about something. So, yeah, Bianca is stupid, yay.

[themageguy]

@Shahadem: ...ok? Not the point, again, but I have a feeling you know that and just wanted to complain about something. So, yeah, Bianca is stupid, yay.

Actually, Bianca is one HOT dwarven lady


Poor Varric

[In Exile]

I mean you can say choke points make it easy, but how're you going to choke point on the open desert planes? What if your going up against a bunch of archers spread out? From what we've seen of Rifts there generally aren't a lot of choke points to be used, and then get shuttered in around the area not all in 1 tight nit group. Taunt's generally how you deal with group management like that, blatantly ignoring it cause of a few situations... Meh, whatever, everyone does what they want - and I don't wanna ignore taunt.

 

In big open spaces, you don't even need choke points. You can just back away and create kill zones, because stupid melee enemies are stupid and will walk into the death traps that you design. And archers in open spaces are even more fodder for AOEs. Fighting enemies with AOE/ranged isn't about chokepoints per se, it's about distance. Chokepoints are just a substitute for CC spells. Kiting is the most basic and elementary form of using space effectively, but there are also more advanced ways of doing the same thing. 

The only time archers are dangerous against mages/rogue archers are when the game itself doesn't let you effectively target them because they're at some level of elevation that breaks the targeting system and makes the AI pathfinding run after them. 

[Adhin]

Yeah, kiting is one of the most effective uses of making fights last longer then they need to. It's generally the 'oh crap' fall back plan of things not going that well and that being the only real way out of it outside of dying. Like I said, I don't like playing that way. I'll be using all the classes, I rarely play all ranged characters but its something you obviously want to do, so, more power to you man.

 

Like you sorta-said, you can just CC in open spaced to concentrate fire on the others. I bet you can also use Icewall to block their shots while doing non-projectile based dmg on them through that, least I'm pretty sure that works. Anyway, I'm gonna use Warriors, and I'll be using taunt. I don't think its useless, but that's just how I'll be playing.

[In Exile]

Yeah, kiting is one of the most effective uses of making fights last longer then they need to. It's generally the 'oh crap' fall back plan of things not going that well and that being the only real way out of it outside of dying. Like I said, I don't like playing that way. I'll be using all the classes, I rarely play all ranged characters but its something you obviously want to do, so, more power to you man.

 

Like you sorta-said, you can just CC in open spaced to concentrate fire on the others. I bet you can also use Icewall to block their shots while doing non-projectile based dmg on them through that, least I'm pretty sure that works. Anyway, I'm gonna use Warriors, and I'll be using taunt. I don't think its useless, but that's just how I'll be playing.

 

Re: kiting I'm not saying kiting is a good strategy, or even a useful one, I'm just saying why it's a strategy - it's the most basic way of keeping space between you and an enemy, staying out of their range while keeping them in yours. I don't really like ranged classes, in that I don't especially use archers. I just think that from a pure powergaming POV, taunt is a very poor ability even if you're going to have melee. 

I suppose if you have multiple melee builds then taunt works, but the bigger issue that you're then dealing with is AOE. I suppose that's why people dislike FF - if you had to micro 3 melee characters all the time to avoid FF, it would feel like a chore. 

 

Re: taunts generally, I should have been more precise. It's not useful in the sense that it does nothing - it clearly does something. But I just find the opportunity cost of taunt not worth it unless I'm using a party mix-up that's relatively speaking less powerful.

 

When I use multiple melee parties - and I will, to explore different stories/plots/etc. and plus to play it as an Action RPG with my controller now that I can do that - I'm just going to switch down to normal from nightmare difficulty, turn off FF, and not play for the combat. 

[Adhin]

Ahh well, im coming from a FF on and Nightmare perspective of a person who loves playing Tanks. I get what your saying about AoE and taunting but that's a 'you let your self get surrounded'. If your not super careful though yeah It can get... iffy. A lot of the spells though don't seem to be to bad on that front in this game at least. Also, lightning is your friendly neighborhood AoE.

 

Chain Lightning can hit 4 at base, 5 meter distance between each jump point. Upgrade adds 2 targets and 4 meter to the arcing jump. So you can, reliably, hit 6 enemies with out ever endangering your tank. Immolate is the same impact dmg (300%) though has the upper hand in dmg as it comes with a DoT. It only hits in a 3 meter area... which is probably radius, so, 6 meters across? Good size area, but you probably wont hit 6 people with that (unless its like, a lot of zombie enemies).

 

Anyway, Immolate's this games fireball, which is pretty easy not to hit your tank with - you just don't put it on him. Also generally you don't want your melee surrounded anyway. One thing im curious about is the combat roll, I wonder if it'll let us slip out of a group if we are surrounded. Or if there will be any skills a warrior can get that would let that happen. If so that could prove useful for immolate and getting out of it before the mage casts. Either way, in my experience, you rarely have to keep repositioning your 'tank' just because of AoE. You just put the rim just in front of him and blow some **** up.

[Hellion Rex]

This is a theorycraft for my eventual Qunari mage, Lugh Adaar. He's gonna be my "light-bringer" so I plan to spec him heavily in Inferno.

 

22-23 points total

 

Inferno: 10 points

-Immolate + Upgrade

-Flashpoint

-Pyromancer

-Clean Burn

-Wall of Fire + Upgrade

-Chaotic Focus

-Fire Mine + Upgrade

 

Winter: 2 points

-Fade Step

-Winter's Grasp

 

Storm: 2 points

-Chain Lightning

-Energy Barrage

 

Spirit: 2 points

-Barrier + Upgrade

 

Knight Enchanter: 6-7

-Spirit Blade + Upgrade

-Resurgence

-Fade Cloak + Upgrade

-Veiled Riposte

-maybe that final active spell?

 

8 Mapped Spells: Immolate, Energy Barrage, Fade Step, Barrier, Wall of Fire, Fire Mine, Spirit Blade, Chain Lightning/Winter's Grasp.

[mikeymoonshine]

Ugh, I am really hoping there are a decent amount of extra skill points in the game. 

[Hellion Rex]

Ugh, I am really hoping there are a decent amount of extra skill points in the game. 

Play a human, so you get that free spell point. And then, grab the Inquisition perk that grants the Inquisitor an extra spell.

[Milan92]

I suspect we get a point for each level and since the level cap is 30, that means we get 30 points.

[Hellion Rex]

I suspect we get a point for each level and since the level cap is 30, that means we get 30 points.

Hold up. I thought the level cap was like 25?

[Milan92]

Hold up. I thought the level cap was like 25?

 

Well... I'm not sure. I thought I heard somewhere that the level cap was 30.

[Patchwork]

I'll be surprised if they've done away with talent books/potions. 

 

So far the only mage spec we know the details of is KE right? Something someone posted in another thread made me wonder if I missed something. 

[mikeymoonshine]

Play a human, so you get that free spell point. And then, grab the Inquisition perk that grants the Inquisitor an extra spell.

 

Nuuuu! I'm playing an Elf first 

 

 

Hold up. I thought the level cap was like 25?

 

They said 25-30 I expect what that means is that this is the range they think most players will end up in. 30 may not even be the hard cap, it could be like DA2 where there is a hard cap that is just pretty much impossible to reach.

[The Baconer]

Also remember that both Dragon Age games have had a "soft cap" range, because reaching max level was either difficult or impossible.

[mikeymoonshine]

I'll be surprised if they've done away with talent books/potions. 

 

So far the only mage spec we know the details of is KE right? Something someone posted in another thread made me wonder if I missed something. 

 

Well we know what the Rift Mage tree looks like, it's in the OP. Stonefist is in that tree and the focas ability is firestorm (for Solas at least). 

[Adhin]

Yeah they've said there's just a softcap and at some point you'll just stop gaining XP from monsters. Hard caps probably, as you say mikey, like DA2 (50-ish). No idea where I heard 27 from may of been a twitter thing or someone mentioning it being the highest they had gotten at some point blah blah. I think lvl 25 is a good number to assume though for super end game. 20 is a good end-ish but more reasonable for a good build though.

 

-edit-

It'll be curious to see how high people can actually go. I'm sure some crazy person out there will kill things till they stop gaining XP while doing as little quests as humanly possible. Then do all the quests to see how high they can push the level up.

[Hellion Rex]

I'll be surprised if they've done away with talent books/potions. 

 

So far the only mage spec we know the details of is KE right? Something someone posted in another thread made me wonder if I missed something. 

As of now, it would seem both Stonefist and Firestorm are in the Rift Mage tree. Also, something similar to Merrill's Ensnare spell appears to also be a spell in that tree.

[The Baconer]

-edit-

It'll be curious to see how high people can actually go. I'm sure some crazy person out there will kill things till they stop gaining XP while doing as little quests as humanly possible. Then do all the quests to see how high they can push the level up.

 

Going by the estimates from the devs, the hard cap could very well be 50 like it was in DA2. Of course, without both DLCs it was pretty much impossible to reach even half that, but it seems like that won't be the case in DA:I.

 

 

As of now, it would seem both Stonefist and Firestorm are in the Rift Mage tree. Also, something similar to Merrill's Ensnare spell appears to also be a spell in that tree.

 

>_> I really hope there's more to Rift Mage (actives) than being a home for orphaned spells.

[Kage]

That's very similar of what I had in mind for my first Inquisitor, an elven female mage who specializes in FIRE, all crazy damage, and then I was thinking on KE but we will see.

 

Its going to be the "fck Cullen" playthrough, with a benevolent mage, good girl etc. Then it will come the Warrior Inquisitor, surely templar 2h, who will not be so "nice", but effective. What I think I would be in that situation.

 

And then the crazy polaythroughs... I cant wait for them to start!!