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[Icy Magebane]

Before I do any more theorycrafting, I have to see more of the Warrior Trees, especially the Templar one. I NEED it now.

Exactly... I only know the first 2 abilities in Vanguard.  It's hard to plan anything with such limited info...  Templar doesn't matter too much to me, though.  Cassandra needs to learn pretty much the whole tree in order to access Holy Smite.  So unless that power absolutely sucks this time, most of her skills are set in stone.  It would be nice to know specifically what those abilities and passives do, however...

[Patchwork]

I think picking a spec for my eventual human/qunari mage is going to be easier than for my first run DE. The dalish distrusting all fade spirits is a nice lore titbit but it's adding a lot of restriction to what spells I can choose. 

[Hellion Rex]

Exactly... I only know the first 2 abilities in Vanguard.  It's hard to plan anything with such limited info...  Templar doesn't matter too much to me, though.  Cassandra needs to learn pretty much the whole tree in order to access Holy Smite.  So unless that power absolutely sucks this time, most of her skills are set in stone.

Wait, what's in the Vanguard tree? All the spells and talents are running together in my head cause of all the screenshots I've been taking.

 

And the reason I want more info on the Templar is that all my PC warriors will be Templars, so I just want more info on the talents in the tree.

[Icy Magebane]

Wait, what's in the Vanguard tree? All the spells and talents are running together in my head cause of all the screenshots I've been taking.

 

And the reason I want more info on the Templar is that all my PC warriors will be Templars, so I just want more info on the talents in the tree.

Challenge and War Cry.

[Hellion Rex]

Challenge and War Cry.

Ah. Is there a difference? Cause they seem to do similar things.

[Icy Magebane]

I think picking a spec for my eventual human/qunari mage is going to be easier than for my first run DE. The dalish distrusting all fade spirits is a nice lore titbit but it's adding a lot of restriction to what spells I can choose. 

It also means that Cole probably shouldn't be allowed on the team... personally, I'm just going to ignore this even though I'll be playing as an otherwise loyal and orthodox apprentice to the Keeper.  I'll say that my PC is curious and leave it at that.  *shrugs*

 

Plus, there is no way in heck I am passing on Resurgence just because it draws power from Fade Spirits... 

[Icy Magebane]

Ah. Is there a difference? Cause they seem to do similar things.

Challenge is ranged, War Cry is an AoE Taunt.  I am pretty sure they both increase Guard on a successful taunt, but the amounts are probably different, and I have no idea what the upgrades are for these abilities...

[Hellion Rex]

I think picking a spec for my eventual human/qunari mage is going to be easier than for my first run DE. The dalish distrusting all fade spirits is a nice lore titbit but it's adding a lot of restriction to what spells I can choose. 

Ok, if you want to totally avoid fade spirit related spells, don't get Revive, Guardian Spirit, Resurgence, any Necromancy spells. I think Rift Mage should be ok, since it directly manipulates the Veil and doesn't summon spirits.

[Hellion Rex]

It also means that Cole probably shouldn't be allowed on the team... personally, I'm just going to ignore this even though I'll be playing as an otherwise loyal and orthodox apprentice to the Keeper.  I'll say that my PC is curious and leave it at that.  *shrugs*

 

Plus, there is no way in heck I am passing on Resurgence just because it draws power from Fade Spirits... 

Some of the Dalish restrictions on magic are just ridiculous to me lol. If I run a Dalish mage, there's no way in hell I'm passing up on good spells just because they involve Fade spirits.

[Icy Magebane]

Some of the Dalish restrictions on magic are just ridiculous to me lol. If I run a Dalish mage, there's no way in hell I'm passing up on good spells just because they involve Fade spirits.

It's pretty silly considering the low risk and obvious benefits, but I guess that's their culture.  Thankfully our PCs are not restricted from learning these spells...

[The Night Haunter]

Actually the Dalish view is pretty interesting. Merrill and Anders conversations especially.

 

Merrill says something along the lines of: "The Dalish do not recognize the difference between demons and spirits, they are all dangerous." After Anders goes crazy. And she was right

 

Masked Empire Spoiler:

But considering 

Spoiler

Imshael is summoned by a clan of Dalish

Not all Dalish feel the same about spirits.

[Hellion Rex]

Actually the Dalish view is pretty interesting. Merrill and Anders conversations especially.

 

Merrill says something along the lines of: "The Dalish do not recognize the difference between demons and spirits, they are all dangerous." After Anders goes crazy. And she was right

 

But considering

Masked Empire

Spoiler

Imshael is summoned by a clan of Dalish

Not all Dalish feel the same about spirits.

I understand where they are coming from, but I still think it's dumb that they restrict themselves from use of spirits at all. I can understand caution towards that school of magic, but not outright banning of it entirely.

[In Exile]

Some of the Dalish restrictions on magic are just ridiculous to me lol. If I run a Dalish mage, there's no way in hell I'm passing up on good spells just because they involve Fade spirits.

 

That's what every Dalish mage says, apparently. Zathrian did it. The Masked Empire clan did it. Merrill did it. Marethari basically ended up doing it. The only Dalish mage we've seen who hasn't made some deal or otherwise relied on spirit power is Lanaya. 

[Patchwork]

I wouldn't go so far as to say spirit magic is banned it seems more like a guideline than a set in stone rule. Using it does backfire on them a lot though.  If we hadn't had Merrill being shunned by her clan in DA2 I'd say blood magic minus the demon summoning is probably accepted in the clans. It seems logical when lyrium wouldn't be something they can easily get hold of. 

 

It's just something I'm keeping in mind when it comes to picking spells for my DE is all.

[Hellion Rex]

It's just something I'm keeping in mind when it comes to picking spells for my DE is all.

It's certainly possible. But if you do end up getting spirit spells, you could probably headcanon it as being "desperate times call for desperate measures".

[GipsyDangeresque]

The point more is that, a Dalish doesn't trust spirits any more than they trust demons but also that they are as likely to trust a demon as a spirit.

 

Merrill got help from a demon to aid her in restoring an Eluvian Mirror. Whatever motivation the demon had, she did not trust it just as she would not trust Faith or Justice neither.

 

Spirits and demons are pretty much the same to the Dalish, but an individual might have different views on Fade denizens in general. i.e. someone cautious but open to needing assistance might have a rule like "don't make deals with them unless you've anticipated being betrayed and have backup plans" but somebody else might think "all fade denizens are horrible and they scare me".

 

So long as your reaction to things is the same across the board, I think that's pretty consistent. What would be wrong is if your Dalish thinks that spirits specifically are to be trusted beyond demons.

[Icy Magebane]

The point more is that, a Dalish doesn't trust spirits any more than they trust demons but also that they are as likely to trust a demon as a spirit.

 

Merrill got help from a demon to aid her in restoring an Eluvian Mirror. Whatever motivation the demon had, she did not trust it just as she would not trust Faith or Justice neither.

 

Spirits and demons are pretty much the same to the Dalish, but an individual might have different views on Fade denizens in general. i.e. someone cautious but open to needing assistance might have a rule like "don't make deals with them unless you've anticipated being betrayed and have backup plans" but somebody else might think "all fade denizens are horrible and they scare me".

 

So long as your reaction to things is the same across the board, I think that's pretty consistent. What would be wrong is if your Dalish thinks that spirits specifically are to be trusted beyond demons.

I think that somewhere in World of Thedas, it is specifically mentioned that Dalish mages forbid the working of magic that involves Spirits (which to them means anything that lives in the Fade).  The ones mentioned so far have all been rogues, and were either exiled or shunned when their behavior was made public.

[Adhin]

As far as the Vanguard tree is concerned - there is also Charge. You can see Iron Bull using it in E3 2nd trailer (amongst other videos). Anyway you can see the icon in the vanguard in the middle thing.

[Hellion Rex]

As far as the Vanguard tree is concerned - there is also Charge. You can see Iron Bull using it in E3 2nd trailer (amongst other videos). Anyway you can see the icon in the vanguard in the middle thing.

That was the Scythe talent, no?

[mikeymoonshine]

Well for my Dalish I am going to do a change of views sort of thing. He will start of completely accepting of Dalish beliefs and values and he will be very hostile to other views but he will eventually start to doubt his beliefs a little and end up learning necromancy and falling for a human. He's certainly not gonna become andrastian but being the Inquisitor will change his views and beliefs to some extent. 

 

So I'll start off not learning spells that involve spirits and just choose them a bit later on in my playthrough. 

[Icy Magebane]

That was the Scythe talent, no?

They seem to have replaced Scythe with a much slower running charge...

 

It's more like a bull rush now.  Maybe they didn't think it would have been appropriate for someone as big as Iron Bull to use a dash attack, but whatever the reason, two handers have been slowed down a great deal.

 

edit:  Whoops, as Adhin just pointed out, it is available to both weapon styes, so slowing down 2 handers has nothing to do with this...  unless perhaps that is the reason it was moved to the Vanguard tree in the first place.  Regardless, I am not a fan of the change.

[Adhin]

@Eluvianus Rex: Yeah I'm not sure they call it Scythe (seems an awkward name for a charge, yeah I realize DA2 was). It's definitely the same icon though from DA2, with a re-coloring. I'm kinda curious which one is the AoE taunt. Like placement in the tree, it's either the left one or the last ones. Curious what the Double-Axe and the Shield one at the bottom of the tree are, really.

 

-edit-

Erm, point is - whatever Scythe replacement is, is in Vanguard now, not 2H only. So any style can use it. Shieldy style has a charge skill too though so... I'm sure there is a specific reason to take the Vanguard skill over the Shield one (or other way around).

[themageguy]

I often wonder if what was written in WOT about dalish and spirits was wrong or worded incorrectly.

Maevaris in the comics says she heard that dalish could graft spirit onto flesh to make it whole .

Then we have Zathrian binding a spirit to a wolf, Velanna binding spirits to trees.....

So far the only keeper I've seen with the attitude towards spirits as described in WOT has been Marethari - both in merills short story and in game.

[The Elder King]

I often wonder if what was written in WOT about dalish and spirits was wrong or worded incorrectly.
Maevaris in the comics says she heard a rumor that dalish could graft spirit onto flesh to make it whole .
Then we have Zathrian binding a spirit to a wolf, Velanna binding spirits to trees.....
So far the only keeper I've seen with the attitude towards spirits as described in WOT has been Marethari - both in merills short story and in game.

Mae referred to an exiled Magister.

[themageguy]

As of now, it would seem both Stonefist and Firestorm are in the Rift Mage tree. Also, something similar to Merrill's Ensnare spell appears to also be a spell in that tree.

if the ability that looks like ensnare creates vines from the fade then my dalish mage is definitely going to be a rift mage

if not, i will go Knight enchanter, as Solas will be in the party the majority of the time.