6397 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamemako]

look at the top left ability in this tree, the purple one across from the barrier spell. It's not as clear as it could be but you can tell that it is also purple and that it has the white star shape in exactly the same place. It's pretty obvious that this is your dispel, you just can't see the hand because it's not clear.

Actually, I concede that you are right. It is a centered cross and not an offset star. The star is offset on the PAX demo's Dispel. Based on that, the top left is probably dispel, and the bottom right is likely a heal, cleanse, or revive.

[mikeymoonshine]

Actually, I concede that you are right. It is a centered cross and not an offset star. The star is offset on the PAX demo's Dispel. Based on that, the top left is probably dispel, and the bottom right is likely a heal, cleanse, or revive.

 

To be honest I had completely forgotten about dispel until you brought it up, then I remembered that it was used in that old demo so I decided to go have a look at it.

 

I think it's probably like the heal that was in creation in DA2, I am assuming the bottom one is a group or area revive because someone on here claimed a dev said there was one but there is no source for that so I could be wrong. 

 

If that is the case then healing will still be quite limited because it was the group heal spells that you had to rely on in DA2, that singular one was just like another health potion that you could use occasionally. 

[In Exile]

No, I mean you can't damage them with Dual Dagger attacks. If Fire and Ice are "weapons trees" I expect other weapon trees to behave similarly, along with enemies having immunities to them.
Or we could stop with this nonsense and not insinuate that mages are supposed to choose an element. It's OK if they work slightly different from other classes.

 

Physical is a damage type. Being immune to physical damage would be the equivalent of being immune to fire damage, except that all weapons from the rogue/warrior do physical damage, meaning that the expansiveness of that damage type impairs all these classes. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I found that DA2's skill trees became much better when I installed mods to eliminate level requirements (so only prereqs mattered) and I granted every specialization to every character (so all the mages could be Force Mages).

[In Exile]

I found that DA2's skill trees became much better when I installed mods to eliminate level requirements (so only prereqs mattered) and I granted every specialization to every character (so all the mages could be Force Mages).

 

I did the same. It illustrated how much fake difficulty there was in DA2 (e.g. from weak characters). 

[Gamemako]

This. I understand that teamwork is an important aspect of combat in this series, but "focus spells" aren't doing it for me.

I actually rather like Focus abilities. It gives you the opportunity to put spectacular spells in the game without having them trivialize every fight. There are a few other ways you can do that, though. You can have spell charges, which many people would feel is archaic, or you could have an additional resource cost. How would you feel if those powerful abilities were linked to your access to a supply of lyrium potions? Would that be better or worse?

Obviously, trying to have it mana-only is just going to result in DA2-style Firestorm or DA:O-style Blood Wound -- technically balanced but too weak for its spectacular appearance, or overpowered as hell.

If that is the case then healing will still be quite limited because it was the group heal spells that you had to rely on in DA2, that singular one was just like another health potion that you could use occasionally.

Anders had a pathetic group heal. My rogue Nightmare playthrough relied mostly on Anders hitting the regular heal most of the time -- activating Panacea was a massive pain in the ass anyway. For most of the game, rogues and warriors had only Anders for healing spells. If that hand spell is actually a heal, then you can take 3 healers with you if you're a rogue or mage, and Viv + Dorian + Necro or KE Inquisitor + bow rogue = the most efficient team due to having enough healing and tanking capacity to trololo through everything that doesn't one-shot players. 3 DA2 heals would be HUGE, especially with Necromancer cannon fodder, a KE tank for tough opponents, and the rest ranged.

[Icy Magebane]

@ Gamemako - I don't believe that it needed to be one or the other.  We could have had normal and focus versions of these spells.  I'd rather have Firestorm whenever I want to use it but then pull out Mega Firestorm after my mage becomes "focused" (w/e that even means).  But of course, that's just my opinion.

[Adhin]

When I first heard about the focus mechanic, I had hoped it was rift-scar thing. They keep hinting that you get some kinda special powers besides closing rifts with your green scar. Focus skills you could spec into regardless of your class made... sense. But yeah little sad to see its just skills in general, or just mage spells? No idea if Rogue/Warrior also get massive group side super amazing things that also require Focus.

[Gamemako]

@ Gamemako - I don't believe that it needed to be one or the other.  We could have had normal and focus versions of these spells.  I'd rather have Firestorm whenever I want to use it but then pull out Mega Firestorm after my mage becomes "focused" (w/e that even means).  But of course, that's just my opinion.

I suppose you could do that, but that requires 2 animations and still produces one lame version like DA2 Firestorm. It's also messier to implement since you either force players to use Focus immediately or lose access to Focus-buffed spell, or you have to dedicate two buttons to every Focus-able skill. Neither is really a good thing.

To me, the biggest issue with spells like Firstorm in general was the animation disconnect. Firestorm wasn't too weak in DA2 from a mechanical standpoint, but it was pathetic for all the theatrics involved. RAAAAAA I HIT YOU FOR 1/5TH THE DAMAGE OF A SINGLE ARROW RAAAAAAAAAA! If I'm opening up the skies and calling down the apocalypse, I better see some bodies flying. Focus lets you do that.
 

No idea if Rogue/Warrior also get massive group side super amazing things that also require Focus.

Most rogue/warrior trees we have seen are 6 abilities with parallel options at the end. Reaver does have that final ability, however, so it might be spec-related for them. The only mage spec we've seen (KE) was somewhat incomplete in appearance.

[Caramacchiato]

I don't think the new schools of magic (if that is what they are) have to coincide with those that we've seen in previous titles. Remember that the Circle is no longer under the Chantry's supervision and hasn't been for a good while now. It's completely possible that thee Circles have studied forms of magic that were previously disallowed. For example, the Teleport/Blink spell we've seen. In the Codex entry "The Cardinal Rules of Magic", immediate transportation between two places is impossible and yet we have mages jumping all over the place. There's also the Eluvians.

 

My guess is that magic in DA is like technology in our world: constantly evolving and being redefined, hence all the changes from game to game. It might not even be as complicated as that, different Circles or practitioners of magic might just classify spells in different ways.

[Icy Magebane]

I suppose you could do that, but that requires 2 animations and still produces one lame version like DA2 Firestorm. It's also messier to implement since you either force players to use Focus immediately or lose access to Focus-buffed spell, or you have to dedicate two buttons to every Focus-able skill. Neither is really a good thing.

Well, we seem to place different amounts of value on a diverse list of spells to choose from, so I'll leave that alone and just address the implementation aspect. 

 

Do you remember in DA:O how the Warden's Fade shapeshifting abilities and army summoning commands were on a separate tab of the command wheel?  I was thinking of putting Focus powers there.  The player could map them to hotkeys if they wished, but the use of a hotkey wouldn't be a requirement.  There wouldn't be any overlap between the two versions, however... in my proposal, Focus powers wouldn't even be unlocked using talent points.  I'd rather make them as unrelated to magic as possible, thus they'd be earned based on level or perhaps story progress.  I'd still have them use mana, though... (and stamina, in the case of warrior/rogue Focus powers)

[Morroian]

Do you remember in DA:O how the Warden's Fade shapeshifting abilities and army summoning commands were on a separate tab of the command wheel?  I was thinking of putting Focus powers there.  The player could map them to hotkeys if they wished, but the use of a hotkey wouldn't be a requirement.  There wouldn't be any overlap between the two versions, however... in my proposal, Focus powers wouldn't even be unlocked using talent points.  I'd rather make them as unrelated to magic as possible, thus they'd be earned based on level or perhaps story progress.  I'd still have them use mana, though... (and stamina, in the case of warrior/rogue Focus powers)

 

This is something like how I assumed they would be implemented as well.

[andy6915]

To me, the biggest issue with spells like Firstorm in general was the animation disconnect. Firestorm wasn't too weak in DA2 from a mechanical standpoint, but it was pathetic for all the theatrics involved. RAAAAAA I HIT YOU FOR 1/5TH THE DAMAGE OF A SINGLE ARROW RAAAAAAAAAA! If I'm opening up the skies and calling down the apocalypse, I better see some bodies flying. Focus lets you do that.

 

Seriously. Kingdoms of Amalur's meteor spell was a lot like DA2's firestorm... Except a thousand times cooler and actually as powerful as it looks. It was actually a bit of a gamebreaker.

 

 

 

 

 

Firestorm needs to be more like that now if it's a focus power, it needs to be a fight ender.

[Gamemako]

Aww, nuts, I just lost my post. Starting over...

Do you remember in DA:O how the Warden's Fade shapeshifting abilities and army summoning commands were on a separate tab of the command wheel?

No; I am a PC player. We had a floating UI element pop up that would not be acceptable for Focus attacks.

...however... in my proposal, Focus powers wouldn't even be unlocked using talent points. I'd rather make them as unrelated to magic as possible, thus they'd be earned based on level or perhaps story progress. I'd still have them use mana, though... (and stamina, in the case of warrior/rogue Focus powers)

You can always add more abilities for whatever reason, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with what you suggest except that it makes one of your party much more powerful than the rest. Still, you need some means of making powerful spells work, because they sucked horribly in DA2, and I think Focus is a good choice for that.

I've been playing FF1 again lately, which is a good way to remember all the classic design that was forgotten and broken over the years (lessons apparently not lost on DA:I's designers). In that game, you had limited spell charges, but spells were very powerful and were the only means of hitting more than one target at a time. That made them very valuable, but you'd have 1-4 charges of your relevant spells for any dungeon. If you blew your spell charges on fodder, you'd get shredded by a group of minibosses guarding what you came for, so you had to weigh the cost of every fight.

Seriously. Kingdoms of Amalur's meteor spell was a lot like DA2's firestorm... Except a thousand times cooler and actually as powerful as it looks. It was actually a bit of a gamebreaker.
  
 Firestorm needs to be more like that now if it's a focus power, it needs to be a fight ender.

Agreed. It's the spell charge you hold onto until you come across the worthy opponents... and then nuke them into next year.

I played a Shadowcaster in KoA. Wrecked everything once you leveled up a bit. It was so easy to become obscenely powerful in that game.

[andy6915]

I played a Shadowcaster in KoA. Wrecked everything once you leveled up a bit. It was so easy to become obscenely powerful in that game.

 

My first character was that combination (sorcery-finesse). I uh... Personally, I hated that class after a while. It just seemed that the abilities of the 2 styles didn't mesh well and had too much focus on damage over time. Maybe my weapons types had something to do with it, I used chakrams and bow. Which as you know, both suck at close range. I also came to realize later that I just really don't like archery in KoA, it doesn't have any bite or impact to it like archery in Dragon's Dogma or something. I found finesse-might (no archery, pure melee build with my knife throw being my only sorta-ranged attack) to be my real favorite, with pure sorcery being a tiny bit below that, with sorcery-might a little below that but still quite enjoyable. The other destinies aren't favorites of mine.

 

By the way, funny thing. Might-finesse is better at being a stealth character than pure finesse, despite the destiny description saying otherwise.

[PillarBiter]

Seriously. Kingdoms of Amalur's meteor spell was a lot like DA2's firestorm... Except a thousand times cooler and actually as powerful as it looks. It was actually a bit of a gamebreaker.

 

 

 

 

 

Firestorm needs to be more like that now if it's a focus power, it needs to be a fight ender.

 

Kingdoms of amalur was such a gloriously genious game... Archery was very viable! you just needed to upgrade it fully, and then shotgun with the bow Seriously shittons of damage. Oh, how I wish that company didn't go end up

 

 

Anyway, at first I wasn't really a fan of this focus thing, mainly because we don't know how it's built, how often you get it, etc. And I'm one of those players that keeps the powerful abilities for very rare difficult situations, I'm so afraid to use my 'powerful' ability, that I actually end up using it never at all... In horror games I always use up all of my weak ammo first (pistol), before switching to my powerful ammo (shotguns, rifles, ...) which then ends me up with more powerful ammo than I can carry :/

 

In any case, in regards to dragon age. After having read some of the posts here, I might come around. If the focus ability is actually available often enough, and isn't something you have to build up for 10 minutes in a fight, it'd be okay. And I agree, it'd have to be a fight ender (Like KoA's meteor )

[andy6915]

Kingdoms of amalur was such a gloriously genious game... Archery was very viable! you just needed to upgrade it fully, and then shotgun with the bow Seriously shittons of damage. Oh, how I wish that company didn't go end up

 

 

Anyway, at first I wasn't really a fan of this focus thing, mainly because we don't know how it's built, how often you get it, etc. And I'm one of those players that keeps the powerful abilities for very rare difficult situations, I'm so afraid to use my 'powerful' ability, that I actually end up using it never at all... In horror games I always use up all of my weak ammo first (pistol), before switching to my powerful ammo (shotguns, rifles, ...) which then ends me up with more powerful ammo than I can carry :/

 

In any case, in regards to dragon age. After having read some of the posts here, I might come around. If the focus ability is actually available often enough, and isn't something you have to build up for 10 minutes in a fight, it'd be okay. And I agree, it'd have to be a fight ender (Like KoA's meteor )

 

I know archery was viable, I'm well aware how game breakingly strong it is when maxed. But I had absolutely no fun with it. Hitting an enemy directly or shooting magic at them was significantly more fun than the "pew pew" or "lol point blank scattershot". It wasn't that it sucked, it's that I had no fun with it. I don't care how strong it is if I'm having no fun.

 

It didn't help that archery is visually very boring in KoA. Like I said, no bite or impact to it. In Dragon's Dogma, archery feels awesome. Every arrow in the enemy feels like it had weight behind it and can look extremely painful for the enemy. In KoA... Not so much. No style or flashiness or weight to it at all. Like I said, "pew pew". Still, this is just my opinion. If you loved archery in KoA, great. But it wasn't for me.

[PillarBiter]

I know archery was viable, I'm well aware how game breakingly strong it is when maxed. But I had absolutely no fun with it. Hitting an enemy directly or shooting magic at them was significantly more fun than the "pew pew" or "lol point blank scattershot". It wasn't that it sucked, it's that I had no fun with it. I don't care how strong it is if I'm having no fun.

 

It didn't help that archery is visually very boring in KoA. Like I said, no bite or impact to it. In Dragon's Dogma, archery feels awesome. Every arrow in the enemy feels like it had weight behind it and can look extremely painful for the enemy. In KoA... Not so much. No style or flashiness or weight to it at all. Like I said, "pew pew". Still, this is just my opinion. If you loved archery in KoA, great. But it wasn't for me.

 

Ah, like that. True, wasn't the most flashy. But I did love a multiple critical shotgun blast to the face... The game froze for just a tiny sec

 

It did help that I paired it with mostly mage abilities and used the flashy faeblades as secondary weapon

[Kage]

I actually like Focus.

 

In a game where we will have limited healing, there will be long combats where once we have control of the combat, there will be a gameplay aspect of attrition, where we could slowly be killed because we do not have enough healing/absorbtion/whatever. This can be critical in nightmare. Focus will help to remedy that, as a boost in our mechanics for longs fights that we manage to keep under control.

 

And I like that

[LinksOcarina]

Do fire and ice need to really be separate? I kind of liked it when it was elemental magic honestly...

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Do fire and ice need to really be separate? I kind of liked it when it was elemental magic honestly...

Yep. No idea what they are thinking really. They could have worked all four elements in a tree very easily.

 

1:- Have one main spell that allows for elemental invoking and switching between fire, ice, shock and earth. Each element has its own side effects :- Fire has minor AOE and burns through armor. Ice can slow and paralyze. Shock can stun, drain mana and drain stamina. Earth can cause poison damage and knockdown.

 

2:- Have one spell for elemental glyph, one for elemental swarm, one for elemental wall, one single target nuke and one for high damage AOE. These nature of these spells will depend on the one you invoked. Invoke fire for fire mine, fire swarm, fire wall, fire ball and firestorm. Invoke ice for frost glyph, ice wall, ice swarm, frost nova and blizzard. Invoke shock for lightning glyph, shock swarm, lightning wall, chain lightning and tempest. Invoke earth for poison rune, insect swarm, earth wall, stonefist and earthquake.

 

3:- Result = We get strategy and we get all four elements. Epic win for everybody ! 

[themageguy]

One aspect I liked most about skills in DA:O, was that I'd customize each Companion (and the Warden) to themes, specs, if you will, according to pathos and char development. For instance:

- Morrigan: "Dark"-like, hexes, sleep/horror, life-draining spells and whatnot - Entropy at large. Elemental spells (mostly Ice & Lightning - "weather") that made sense for a witch of the Wilds. And of course, Shapeshifting, which I maxed, gave her the Blood Magic spec really towards the end (not a big fan, but...), after she had acquired her mother's book and before the Dark Ritual.

- Wynne: Support. Healer extraordinaire. Crowd control. Glyphs, dispel magic, etc. Spirit (Spell Shield tree) and Creation, mostly, some Arcane. Only a couple offensive spells. Arcane Warrior.

My Warden was a heavy nuker, but overall well-rounded: mastered all elements except Earth, plus Telekinesis (CC), Ice and TK were her go-to, basically, spells she started with; she took a leaf of Morrigan's "wild, free-spirit" (as a sheltered child of the Circle) with Shapeshifting, and even the Robes, staff, etc I'd give her represented that sort of "freedom", more "bite "she had gotten. With Wynne, she got the Heals, buffs and that crowd-control aspect, remained faithful to the Circle and aware of her responsibilities of a Warden ; I'd say, even in terms of character my Warden came to really find herself as a sort of balance between these two polar opposites, in her mage companions, her friends, during their journey together. I thought that was nice.

Same went for everyone else: Alistair - Sword & Shield only + Templar/Champion; Leliana with Archery (no dagger action!) while Zevran could cut a ...witch like no other Rogue, (though no Archery skills). Sten, sword. Oghren, hammer. And so on. No character was the same, which I loved.


In DA2 it was streamlined if just a bit but you could still do that:
- Hawke: Elemental (except Primal=Earth), Arcane, plus Force (which was awesome, love it). While Anders was all about Healing and support, basically; and Merril, Primal/Nature-themed spells, and her Blood Magic. As for my Warriors & Rogues, same thing I did in DA:O, basically.


Now, in DAI, while I'm *very* excited about all the new stuff (loving the Winter tree. And the visuals, OMG!), I do share some of the concern we'll be more limited this time around. Magic, in particular, I feel it shouldn't be. I do trust the devs, however, open to changes and hoping for the best! As of right now, I'm (wasting my time, prolly ) thinking/planning, sorta kinda:

-Viv: She seems like the proverbial "Ice Queen" in every way, but definitely with a fiery side to her (don't touch her couture! lol) so I'm leaning towards Winter and Inferno primarily for her.

- Solas: I'm thinking heals. And I feel he's our guy in all things Fade and Spirit-y - so, that too.

- Dorian: Necromancer, I'm feeling Lightning and/or Spirit plus any and all more "dark"-themed spells, that vibe. Life/Death and all that, Heals and buffs might fit him nicely, as well.

- Inquisitor: TBD!!!

If you've read the calling novel, wynnes spells usage mirrored what we saw in her character reveal trailer.

Just thought id point it out to a fellow gamer who used similar 'themes' for companions.

[themageguy]

Aw, Thank You, that's much appreciated!

Just saw the trailer. I remember seeing Wynne using Ice spells offensively (Winter's Grasp, right? 1st encounter at the Circle Tower?), so, I kept that in; & Earth as well (I'd freeze, she'd shatter with Stonefist, like a boss) and further maxed that tree (Earth) out; Flame Blast (to her having set a boy's hair on fire, pre-Circle) - but Lightning? Never knew that! Too. Cool.

Other than that: Creation, Glyphs, Anti-Magic and Mana Alteration (from the top of my head). I'm sure she can do it ALL, lol - but, just in trying to differentiate her and w/ the themes and all, I figured, exactly because she was such a pro and really knew magic, that'd be right up her alley - as opposed to "a more vulgar" or typical approach to magic or whatever:p. Something else I tried to keep in mind was how she'd have leveled up naturally, that was also a good sorta character guideline, so to speak. All that + a nice Tactics setup, Spirit Healer and Vessel of the Spirit, and she made for a very cool and interesting, really unique character to have around, a staple in my party almost always... good ol' Wynne.

I haven't read the novel, but I'll make sure to check it out. Thxs again

You're welcome:)

If game trailer Morrigans spell use was used in a novel, we would see her use
Fire spells
Stonefist
Lightning
Entropic magic like hexes and death cloud
shape shifting
and i believe walking bomb.

She'd be a blast!

Also i was wrong, not the novel The Calling, Wynne is in the novel Asunder.
whoops!