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[In Exile]

Cause they clearly never developed an overall tree framework and have ended up shoehorning abilities in where they have to. Goes along with why mutilate all mage abilities apart from elemental abilities. And still we don't have a detailed explanation for the changes. 

 

The explanation is because reasons, which is the explanation for the existence of any ability tree in RPGs ever. Making up lore to justify it doesn't make it less arbitrary. It's frankly better and less tortured if abilities are what they are because of the obvious gameplay reasons that motivated them vs. the D&D attempt to make "class balance" a lore thing. 

 

That said, there's no actual coherence to the ability trees which is just stupid. It's the equivalent of having abilities dedicated to S&S in the 2H tree. 

[TheFastestManAlive]

Xilizhra is right. All magic comes from the Fade. Mages reach into the Fade through their mana and are able to do the impossible because they are bringing the spell from the Fade into the physical world. That's how magic works in DA. So yes, Wall of Fire and Firestorm are at the very least coming from the same place.

[themageguy]

Xilizhra is right. All magic comes from the Fade. Mages reach into the Fade through their mana and are able to do the impossible because they are bringing the spell from the Fade into the physical world. That's how magic works in DA. So yes, Wall of Fire and Firestorm are at the very least coming from the same place.

of course, but those two spells are manifested differently. One as energy, the other as matter.

[TheFastestManAlive]

of course, but those two spells are manifested differently. One as energy, the other as matter.

 

Everything has energy. Law of conservation. 

[In Exile]

Everything has energy. Law of conservation. 

 

Pretty sure magic automatically violates that one with the whole something from nothing.

[Adhin]

@TheFastestManAlive: True-ish. Winter magic often involves strong winds (so can lightning, for that matter). But the Fade Step your being pushed by force, not lightning, or cold or fire for that matter. That's what I meant, it could of been in any of them and the elemental trail would of just matched said tree. With that in mind it doesn't matter which tree it's in, that's just the one they decided they liked it the most for an elemental trail.

 

It was in the spirit tree years back, hence the name and reasoning for how it works. Frankly, I think that's where it should still be, and Winter is the only tree with 5 actives, rest all have 4. Could be thrown into any of em really with out killing the numbers or any of that. Though as far as coming up with a reason for it being cold outside of just an upgrade elemental trail effect how about a cold gust of wind?

 

I mean some of the strongest pushing winds tend to be rather cold. Course, you could come up with a reason for being pushed from any 3 which is kinda still my point I guess. Fire woulda been a good one, jet engine style, Iron Man your way across the area. Anyway, I'd of loved it to be in spirit, with barrier upgrade. Would of been move useful.

[themageguy]

Everything has energy. Law of conservation.

And you're going to apply those laws to a video game dealing with magic?

Seriously, why do i even bother.

[TheFastestManAlive]

Pretty sure magic automatically violates that one with the whole something from nothing.

 

That's the beauty of it! It doesn't come from nothing. It comes from the Fade where energy is in constant flux in an attempt to mimic the waking world. Conscious, limitless energy and only mages can harness it.

[themageguy]

That's the beauty of it! It doesn't come from nothing. It comes from the Fade where energy is in constant flux in an attempt to mimic the waking world. Conscious, limitless energy and only mages can harness it.

And spirits

[themageguy]

I cant wait to see more spec skills.
Tempest, Necromancer and Rift mage.
These are the ones im most looking forward to.

[Icy Magebane]

As far as Fade Step goes, the ability seems to have been heavily influenced by Blink from Kingdoms of Amalur.  In fact, Mike Laidlaw actually slipped up and called it that in a recent Twitch demo (the one in the Deep Roads right after Cameron Lee first used it).  In KOA, Blink had an Ice upgrade, so I'm guessing that is what led them to place Fade Step in the Winter tree and give it an Ice damage upgrade... the only thing missing is the ability to pass through enemies, but we've only seen it a couple times and we've never seen the description of it, so it's entirely possible that it can go through enemies.  Either way, I'd have put it in Spirit, not only because it's logical, but also because that tree is way too focused on Barrier and could do with a bit of variation.  For Pete's sake, even the Mind Blast and Dispel upgrades augment Barrier...

[TheFastestManAlive]

This is what Fade Step should have been. A Thedosian Infinite Mass Punch.

[Icy Magebane]

This is what Fade Step should have been. A Thedosian Infinite Mass Punch.

Um... as cool as that was, an attack that can K.O. Superman might be a little OP in the Dragon Age setting...

[themageguy]

I cant decide on what race/weapons style my tempest will be.

A dual dagger qunari with their melee defence bonus seems a good combo,
an archer human tempest gets access to an extra skill point which essentially a free level up, or a dwarf with their epic beards, tatts and magic resistance (which may come in handy with demons, dragons and enemy mages).

Decisions decisions

[themageguy]

This is what Fade Step should have been. A Thedosian Infinite Mass Punch.

[Icy Magebane]

I cant decide on what race/weapons style my tempest will be.

A dual dagger qunari with their melee defence bonus seems a good combo,
an archer human tempest gets access to an extra skill point which essentially a free level up, or a dwarf with their epic beards, tatts and magic resistance (which may come in handy with demons, dragons and enemy mages).

Decisions decisions

Why not play as a dwarf who started experimenting with alchemy because s/he was jealous of mages?  Even if you aren't going to go with that backstory, my vote goes to dwarf.  Magic resistance is useful in a number of situations, and their beards truly are epic...

 

edit: Also, playing as a non-human will encourage Bioware to continue to give us a choice between races in future games.  So if you have any interest at all in a non-human, I strongly urge you to play as one of those characters first, regardless of which of the three you pick.  If they design DA4 from start to finish with non-human protagonists in mind, we will probably get even more in-depth racial content.  If they see that the overwhelming majority is picking human again, they might not bother...

[themageguy]

Why not play as a dwarf who started experimenting with alchemy because s/he was jealous of mages? Even if you aren't going to go with that backstory, my vote goes to dwarf. Magic resistance is useful in a number of situations, and their beards truly are epic...

A dwarf who loves to make antivan fire bombs hears of rogues who wreathe themselves in fire and frost...oh yes indeed

Im a little concerned at just how well a dagger rogue will be doing against a dragon. As a tempest, i can exploit any elemental weaknesses, but it seems any attempt to use stealth is pretty much useless.
whereas with a bow i can keep a distance and still make use of my elemental flasks.
However, if i can enchant my daggers with one of those materials that has a chance to cast a spell on hit, daggers would be generally more useful.
Id like to have either chain lightning or a frost spell on my daggers. With a bow, walking bomb or chain lightning seem a good fit.

[Icy Magebane]

A dwarf who loves to make antivan fire bombs hears of rogues who wreathe themselves in fire and frost...oh yes indeed

Im a little concerned at just how well a dagger rogue will be doing against a dragon. As a tempest, i can exploit any elemental weaknesses, but it seems any attempt to use stealth is pretty much useless.
whereas with a bow i can keep a distance and still make use of my elemental flasks.
However, if i can enchant my daggers with one of those materials that has a chance to cast a spell on hit, daggers would be generally more useful.
Id like to have either chain lightning or a frost spell on my daggers. With a bow, walking bomb or chain lightning seem a good fit.

Yeah, I've got zero advice on handling dragons as a dual dagger rogue... from what little I've seen, I'm reluctant to even bring warriors to the fight.  Maybe if the rumors about Guard being applied to non-warrior weapons turn out to be true, you could use those to give your DD rogues some protection.  Although if you chose a dwarf, they'd at least be able to take the breath attacks a little better than the other races...

 

The crafting system seems like it's going to be a real difference maker, though... there are a lot of options to consider, so even though we don't have all the details right now, I'm confident that there's some combination of enchantments that will make dagger rogues useful in these fights...

 

If you are willing to respec, you could probably just switch to archery right before facing a dragon, I guess... that's also an option.

[Adhin]

I personally am going to try to make a Qunari first. I just hope theres a hair option I can settle on, not because I liked all the ones i saw but becuase I just don't like any of them. I don't use Mohawks, I don't like stupid short hair and that seems to be my only 2 choices. 3 flavors of short, Mohawk or just straight up bald, which again I wont ever pick consciously. Pretty determined to try and make a Qunari dude I'm happy to play as though so we'll see where that leads me.

 

-edit-

Hey as far as that dragon fight - the cold dragon wing buffet drags people in (doing dmg the whole way). Only 'safe place' is right next to the dragon or extremely far out of his reach. The block skill (name is currently escaping me) will block there blast-attack. Not there flamethrowery version but the actual single AOE blast projectile you can block.

 

If I was playing a rogue I'd stick to its bag legs. Definitely would be investing in the rogues version of dodge since that moves you a fair bit of distance. Back out if it's about to attack (these are all telegraphed so you have time... depending on difficulty). Frost Dragon means sticking close when it wing buffets, letting you do dmg to its limb with relative safety. Apparently you can also somehow interrupt it doing that, not sure how... maybe hitting it's face with a bash like move?

 

Now, other dragons we've seen (specifically fire one in E3 trailer) it's Wing Buffet seemed to push people back so... I'm not sure if that'll change it up depending on the dragon or what. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the lightning dragon did a storm cloud. I coulda sworn his claws where lighting up at the beginning of that troll fight.

 

Anyway, first thing im going to do when I encounter a dragon I intend to kill? See if I can 'Counter Attack' it's ranged fireball, and melee swipes. Curious if I can use that skill to avoid the damage. I'm sure you can block with the shield but... thats a shield. Anyway if that works, great! Also, rogue have a Riposte skill relatively similar so, may wanna try that.. you know, 'after' saving.

[Icy Magebane]

I personally am going to try to make a Qunari first. I just hope theres a hair option I can settle on, not because I liked all the ones i saw but becuase I just don't like any of them. I don't use Mohawks, I don't like stupid short hair and that seems to be my only 2 choices. 3 flavors of short, Mohawk or just straight up bald, which again I wont ever pick consciously. Pretty determined to try and make a Qunari dude I'm happy to play as though so we'll see where that leads me.

Have you decided on a class?

[themageguy]

I personally am going to try to make a Qunari first. I just hope theres a hair option I can settle on, not because I liked all the ones i saw but becuase I just don't like any of them. I don't use Mohawks, I don't like stupid short hair and that seems to be my only 2 choices. 3 flavors of short, Mohawk or just straight up bald, which again I wont ever pick consciously. Pretty determined to try and make a Qunari dude I'm happy to play as though so we'll see where that leads me.

Which class/spec are you choosing?

[PillarBiter]

This is what Fade Step should have been. A Thedosian Infinite Mass Punch.

 

So you argue that in dragon age blink can't be in winter because of... reasons, but ignore the 10 thousand things that are physically impossible with that punch?

 

I love arguing on the internet. 

 

 

 

About the rogue thing, I'm still very concerned with the specialisations. I mean, As a main rogue character, I'm probably going archer, not dual wield (although I might at some point). Dual wield seems like a good fit for assassin. Trapper doesn't seem like a good fit for archer, because he'll e away from the field for most of the time, so his spec abilities are useless. So that leaves me with tempest... and honestly,we haven't seen the abilities, so I'm not very convinced that's any good either :/

 

I suppose an archer assassin could be nice though. Guess I'll find out. I don't know why, because usually my playstyle is get in there and **** things up, but for some reason I've always liked archery in DA. Probably because in DAA, it was ridiculoulsy overpowered, and in DAII, you had so many disabling abilities enemies couldn't come close. 

[Adhin]

Yup, Warrior/Reaver, same as I always make as a primary. I tend to play tanks, preferably non-shield oriented. So 2-handed. I got plenty of rogue/mage builds for additional play throughs (have 6 atm figured out-ish). I wont be going to heavy into the 2H tree though, Counter Attack, some of the passives. Most of my actives will be dedicated to Reaver and Vanguard. May end up really needing the dodge roll and will figure that into it I'm sure but If I can get by with my counter attack skill and me just moving outa the way I will. Though considering I'll be on a higher difficulty and the telegraphs will be shorter I'm probably going to need the roll.

 

-edit-

Actually, I may only switch out dodge over taunt when it comes to the dragon. Though I can tell you right now, from my own personal habits... I hate switching stuff out. I don't carry around 3 sets of armor, I don't like re-mapping crap to 'suit the situation'. I like being setup, and have a tendency towards survival in relation to the specific theme of the character. So... yeah we'll see how much I need roll or don't need it.

[themageguy]

I personally am going to try to make a Qunari first. I just hope theres a hair option I can settle on, not because I liked all the ones i saw but becuase I just don't like any of them. I don't use Mohawks, I don't like stupid short hair and that seems to be my only 2 choices. 3 flavors of short, Mohawk or just straight up bald, which again I wont ever pick consciously. Pretty determined to try and make a Qunari dude I'm happy to play as though so we'll see where that leads me.

-edit-
Hey as far as that dragon fight - the cold dragon wing buffet drags people in (doing dmg the whole way). Only 'safe place' is right next to the dragon or extremely far out of his reach. The block skill (name is currently escaping me) will block there blast-attack. Not there flamethrowery version but the actual single AOE blast projectile you can block.

If I was playing a rogue I'd stick to its bag legs. Definitely would be investing in the rogues version of dodge since that moves you a fair bit of distance. Back out if it's about to attack (these are all telegraphed so you have time... depending on difficulty). Frost Dragon means sticking close when it wing buffets, letting you do dmg to its limb with relative safety. Apparently you can also somehow interrupt it doing that, not sure how... maybe hitting it's face with a bash like move?

Now, other dragons we've seen (specifically fire one in E3 trailer) it's Wing Buffet seemed to push people back so... I'm not sure if that'll change it up depending on the dragon or what. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the lightning dragon did a storm cloud. I coulda sworn his claws where lighting up at the beginning of that troll fight.

Anyway, first thing im going to do when I encounter a dragon I intend to kill? See if I can 'Counter Attack' it's ranged fireball, and melee swipes. Curious if I can use that skill to avoid the damage. I'm sure you can block with the shield but... thats a shield. Anyway if that works, great! Also, rogue have a Riposte skill relatively similar so, may wanna try that.. you know, 'after' saving.

That lightning dragon looked pretty awesome.

[PillarBiter]

Yup, Warrior/Reaver, same as I always make as a primary. I tend to play tanks, preferably non-shield oriented. So 2-handed. I got plenty of rogue/mage builds for additional play throughs (have 6 atm figured out-ish). I wont be going to heavy into the 2H tree though, Counter Attack, some of the passives. Most of my actives will be dedicated to Reaver and Vanguard. May end up really needing the dodge roll and will figure that into it I'm sure but If I can get by with my counter attack skill and me just moving outa the way I will. Though considering I'll be on a higher difficulty and the telegraphs will be shorter I'm probably going to need the roll.

 

-edit-

Actually, I may only switch out dodge over taunt when it comes to the dragon. Though I can tell you right now, from my own personal habits... I hate switching stuff out. I don't carry around 3 sets of armor, I don't like re-mapping crap to 'suit the situation'. I like being setup, and have a tendency towards survival in relation to the specific theme of the character. So... yeah we'll see how much I need roll or don't need it.

 

Lol, you're basically describing my first build as well

 

Although, I am going to use tremor and whirlwind, with a few of the passives where possible...