6397 réponses à ce sujet

[wowsuper]

Yep. No idea what they are thinking really. They could have worked all four elements in a tree very easily.

 

1:- Have one main spell that allows for elemental invoking and switching between fire, ice, shock and earth. Each element has its own side effects :- Fire has minor AOE and burns through armor. Ice can slow and paralyze. Shock can stun, drain mana and drain stamina. Earth can cause poison damage and knockdown.

 

2:- Have one spell for elemental glyph, one for elemental swarm, one for elemental wall, one single target nuke and one for high damage AOE. These nature of these spells will depend on the one you invoked. Invoke fire for fire mine, fire swarm, fire wall, fire ball and firestorm. Invoke ice for frost glyph, ice wall, ice swarm, frost nova and blizzard. Invoke shock for lightning glyph, shock swarm, lightning wall, chain lightning and tempest. Invoke earth for poison rune, insect swarm, earth wall, stonefist and earthquake.

 

3:- Result = We get strategy and we get all four elements. Epic win for everybody ! 

 

Too many animations and graphic effects for those cheap asses, my dear. They can get away with the current cheaper layout since nobody will bat an eye because "it looks cool", so why bother? Fu*k variety and character development complexity.

[Icy Magebane]

Interesting noting - only speaking for myself of course:p - how related material (especially visual stuff, I'm very visual-oriented) from concept art to trailers, novels, etc; might influence, from a choice in weapons & skills to a character's appearance - and especially if it's "canon", I'll often try to incorporate that, again with the "themes" & all... as silly as that may sound, lol 

 

Even now with DAI, and though most are just demos: hard to dissociate i.e Vivienne from Ice & Fire spells she's been seen using the most and look very cool on her. Dorian: Lightning for some reason, I feel is a great look on him, he works those Lightning spells & staff even, like a ***** pole. So I feel visuals/sFX/animations definitely play a part, too; and some might fit a character better than others.

I like to take the opposite approach and go with unconventional builds.  For example, I usually made Alistair a dual wield warrior and Leliana a dual wield rogue.  Wynne continued to develop her healing magic, but only so that I could use her as a paladin-style Arcane Warrior with a heavy melee focus.  DA2 stripped all of that customization away and gave us mostly pre-determined roles for each character, which is why I'm excited about the (potential) flexibility of the DAI system.  I've already decided to switch Cassandra to 2 handed and Iron Bull to sword and shield.  I will probably also have Varric using dual daggers... no idea what I'll do with the rest of the characters...

[Gamemako]

I will probably also have Varric using dual daggers...

Ha, reminds me of when I made Wynne a blood mage.

[Gamemako]

What about this spell (about 3:23/24 in), whatever it is (if even a spell) seems to have a TK look/feel to it (PC holds > tosses foe), is it something else entirely? Any relation to the "winged boots" icon on the Inquisitor's hotbar? A tad curious here about this one. Your guesses???

The boot is Haste. The Inquisitor is using Flash Fire there, targeting the ground near Iron Bull. The Shade is moving of its own accord; it just looks funny because of where the Inquisitor is pointing her spell.

//EDIT: Oh, and regarding Crushing Prison, that would go in the Spirit tree, but it's not in there in the E3 demo. The spells in there are Dispel, Barrier, Mind Blast, and two restorative-type spells. Not final and all, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Kage]

Crushing Prison has always been a very unique spell for Dragon Age. I would miss it greatly if its gone...

[wowsuper]

Crushing Prison has always been a very unique spell for Dragon Age. I would miss it greatly if its gone...

 

I would miss greatly all the other 71 spells.

 

Well, let me compute again.

Origins: 100 spells;

DA2: 40 spells;

Inquisition... 5*4 standard trees= 20 + 3*3 specialization trees= 29 spells.

So, 100-29=71 spells lost on the road from Origins.

 

Wait! 100, 40, 29...

I may have noticed a trend!

If we are lucky in a future DA4 we'll have even less than 10 spells at our disposal! How exciting!

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Most interesting imo:

1) You seem to be able to combo the CC effects of fire's fear with additional damage, sacrificing prolonged CC for burst damage
2) Barrier is a T1 spell

Most disappointing: 

1) If the above poster is right then this makes me depressed. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I would miss greatly all the other 71 spells.

 

Well, let me compute again.

Origins: 100 spells;

DA2: 40 spells;

Inquisition... 5*4 standard trees= 20 + 3*3 specialization trees= 29 spells.

So, 100-29=71 spells lost on the road from Origins.

 

Wait! 100, 40, 29...

I may have noticed a trend!

If we are lucky in a future DA4 we'll have even less than 10 spells at our disposal! How exciting!

 

 

This is what we call streamlining....err wait...I meant meaningful next-gen gaming experience ! 

 

If DA:I combat system and skill trees are going to turn out this way, I am seriously considering buying Pillars of Eternity first and playing it to my heart's content before getting DA:I. They haven't skimped on any skill trees there....

[Hellion Rex]

I would miss greatly all the other 71 spells.

Well, let me compute again.
Origins: 100 spells;
DA2: 40 spells;
Inquisition... 5*4 standard trees= 20 + 3*3 specialization trees= 29 spells.
So, 100-29=71 spells lost on the road from Origins.

Wait! 100, 40, 29...
I may have noticed a trend!
If we are lucky in a future DA4 we'll have even less than 10 spells at our disposal! How exciting!

...I think your counting is off a tad. You say "5*4 standard trees". What does that even mean? We saw that the Winter Tree has 8 spells plus upgrades. If we have 5 normal trees with about the same number of spells as the Winter tree, you get near 40 base spells/passive abilities (not including their upgrades). And then you add in probably another 5-6 spells to account for your one specialization. So you're easily looking at above 40 possible spells.

[wowsuper]

...I think your counting is off a tad. You say "5*4 standard trees". What does that even mean? We saw that the Winter Tree has 8 spells plus upgrades. If we have 5 normal trees with about the same number of spells as the Winter tree, you get near 40 base spells/passive abilities (not including their upgrades). And then you add in probably another 5-6 spells to account for your one specialization. So you're easily looking at above 40 possible spells.

 

You're being forcedly naive, you know.

 

From what the devs said to kotaku you can clearly conclude that every class will have 4 non-spec trees, and looking at the pictures taken and posted at the beginning of this thread I can identify 4 trees (spirit, entropy, winter, inferno). I can't imagine where you got that elusive "fifth normal tree".

 

Winter tree with 8 spells? Are you kidding? There are exactly five spells per tree (big quadrilaterals). All the other icons are either upgrades (little squares) or passives (circles). In one word: extra junk.

 

If you want to pretend that every tree provides 15 spells, or that round icons are active spells you're welcome to fool yourself. 

 

Finally both the knight enchanter specialisation and the "Reaver" spec add 3 spells/talents and another couple of junk bundles, so we can easily assume that this is the fate of all the other spec trees.

 

See? It wasn't hard to count up to 29.

 

 

This is what we call streamlining....err wait...I meant meaningful next-gen gaming experience !  

 

If DA:I combat system and skill trees are going to turn out this way, I am seriously considering buying Pillars of Eternity first and playing it to my heart's content before getting DA:I. They haven't skimped on any skill trees there....

 

I don't know... After all Origins and other expansive rpgs suck. They provide the player with some actual customisation choices to make. I don't want to to end up with an headache because of too much thinking.

[Morroian]

Crushing Prison has always been a very unique spell for Dragon Age. I would miss it greatly if its gone...

 

Oh yeah it and walking bomb must be there.

[mikeymoonshine]

As I said before, the amount of spells is not that important to me, more is always nice but at the same time lots of spells can also mean lots of useless abilities or just abilities that you never use. It is a bit worrying that over half the spells in the regular trees are elemental spells though. 

[Morroian]

I would miss greatly all the other 71 spells.

 

Well, let me compute again.

Origins: 100 spells;

DA2: 40 spells;

Inquisition... 5*4 standard trees= 20 + 3*3 specialization trees= 29 spells.

So, 100-29=71 spells lost on the road from Origins.

 

Wait! 100, 40, 29...

I may have noticed a trend!

If we are lucky in a future DA4 we'll have even less than 10 spells at our disposal! How exciting!

 

In terms of abilities DAI will probably have just more than DA2 and it appears to have less upgrades so not sure how you arrived at this figures. My concern is the shifting of the balance of the abilities further in favour of more elemental spells which at this point are just cliched and mundane. 

[mikeymoonshine]

All the weapon trees shown in the E3 demo has six active abilities (Double Daggers, Weapon and Shield, Two-Handed Weapon) and we know some trees have been changed so I am not going to assume on the amount of active spells. Someone pointed out a while ago that there doesn't appear to be any sustained abilities so that could part of the reason why there seem to be far less spells than even in DA2. 

[Adhin]

Yeah, least no sustained outline from DA2. Could still be there with them diamond square. I think it's just an issue from Mage side because mages aren't used to being stuck with so many passives. Passives are bread n butter of Rogue/Warriors though. So from a Rogue/Warrior perspective theres like... more stuff! I've shown that before already the total amount of 'things' you get (not counting upgrades) is just more then DA2 had (and DA2 had more then DAO had). Mage's have, ultimately, just been brought in line with that same line of thinking.

 

I honestly hope the passives are more interesting, im sure they are. You'd get stuff based off conditions. Number of enemies in an area, based off kill effects. Buffs that trigger based off events, things like that. It's something Rogues and Warriors have all been used to and has been there for awhile. But yeah If they had kept to the 'same' way of doing things Mages would end up having 40 + 7 from specialization. Which woulda been about spot on with DA2 (or slightly more).

 

So im hoping for more tactical spells then past games have had (which we already see in the Ice/Fire stuff) and interesting passives that really add to how your character plays. I've mentioned before actually, Death Syphon? Gain mana from corpses? That could easily be a passive. Kills around you give you mana, or health, or whatever via a passive - no need for it to be a sustained.

[Gamemako]

Well, let me compute again.
Origins: 100 spells;
DA2: 40 spells;
Inquisition... 5*4 standard trees= 20 + 3*3 specialization trees= 29 spells.
So, 100-29=71 spells lost on the road from Origins.

DA2 had 33 activated player spells with 7 sustained spells. DA:I appears to be throwing sustained spells out of non-spec trees at the very least. The main problem that arises, though, I've already thoroughly discussed.

DA:O had 100 total spells after Awakening, but that includes passives and sustained spells, which are probably about 9 and 28 spells, respectively. If you include Power of Blood and Vessel of the Spirit, there are 103 spells with 29 sustained. Regardless, DA:O really had too many spells, and paring down from there is hard to construe as a negative. It was too many to fit on a PC hotbar.

All the weapon trees shown in the E3 demo has six active abilities (Double Daggers, Weapon and Shield, Two-Handed Weapon) and we know some trees have been changed so I am not going to assume on the amount of active spells. Someone pointed out a while ago that there doesn't appear to be any sustained abilities so that could part of the reason why there seem to be far less spells than even in DA2.

I think they're more assuming nobody is taking two weapons (because nobody is), so warriors and rogues have access to 18 core and 5 spec abilities (23 total) where mages have access to 20 core and 3 spec abilities (23 total). Of those, you'll probably take 12-15 depending on max level, bonus points, etc. For mages, we saw 3 trees averaging 12 points per 5 spell trees, plus 1 spec at 3 abilities and 10 points. If you get a total 35 points (3 start points, 3 bonus points, max level 30), you can max 2 trees, a spec, and 1 extra ability, which is 14 -- you might add a different ability instead of maxing another tree, of course. If you're a non-mage, you'll fall slightly short of maxing 2 trees and a spec, but still probably get all 17 abilities out of it.

To compare to DA2, my mage Hawke ended up with 15 active spells when all was said and done, plus 3 sustained spells. The biggest difference, as I've pointed out, is the utter lack of support spells. With Hawke, only 4 of them (FotM, Stonefist, Chain Lightning, Tempest) dealt damage -- the rest were support. In DA:I, one tree ("Spirit") is non-damage, plus Haste and maybe parts of specs.

[Hellion Rex]

All the weapon trees shown in the E3 demo has six active abilities (Double Daggers, Weapon and Shield, Two-Handed Weapon) and we know some trees have been changed so I am not going to assume on the amount of active spells. Someone pointed out a while ago that there doesn't appear to be any sustained abilities so that could part of the reason why there seem to be far less spells than even in DA2. 

One that I saw used was a kind of sustained armor like thing that the party wore during the E3 demo. It manifested as this blue glow/shimmer thing that surrounded the companions, so they might indeed have a few sustained spells.

[Hellion Rex]

You're being forcedly naive, you know.

I see your point, but you don't have to be so damn rude about it.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

The most painful thing in a thread like this is that we simply dont know for sure. Which leads to alot of arguing. 

I dont understand why a developer cant just tell us outright how many total spells there is in the game here in this thread - counting actives + sustains + passives, and explain if there are things like spell combos increasing complexity and such.

It would take a dev 2 minutes to ease everyone here with no negative consequenses It seems that - not only with bioware - but all gaming companies, the philosophy of developers is "If I can avoid posting in the community forum, I will". Just an observation, not sure if theres actually a good reason behind it.

[Kage]

Maybe they dont say the number because they might put one spell out if it does not fit.

I dont think there will be only 29 spells. You use the kotatsu info to conclude that there are 4 skill trees, but you ignore the part where they said more than 250 abilities.

250/3 classes, around 85 skills per class.
Those are 85 icons you must fit in 4+3 skill trees. Are you sure about.your math again? 5 spells per basic.tree? I would bet for more than 10!
Or maybe, they decide to give the mage more trees, although smaller, to separate inferno, winter, etc.


Dont take.the.screenshots.from the demo trees.as.certain.

[wowsuper]

I see your point, but you don't have to be so damn rude about it.

 

Yeah, I'm sorry. It's just that I'm particularly annoyed and certain attitudes just p*ss me off. I could have been kinder in remarking my point nonetheless.