6397 réponses à ce sujet

[andar91]

Yeah there's plenty of actual abilities. This threads been super mage focused though, folks are used to having 20-30 abilities 'on hand'. Warrior and Rogues its... its just not been an issue, you never have that much as lot of what you are, are in passives. This is probably one of the reasons Mages now have a bunch of passives and why they seem to of gotten rid of sustained abilities. In that QnA it also mentioned a passive that can reset CD's. Kinda curious who that's on, probably Rogue.

 

Either way I have a feeling mage passives will be far more interesting (with exceptions) that just +DMG boost. That is to say I doubt all 5 of the cold or fire based passives are 'lols moar dmgz'.

 

Yeah, I agree. I actually really like passive abilities when they're effective.

The only one we've seen so far is pretty cool and seems to work on multiple abilities at once.

 

Pyromancer: +3 to Willpower (I LOVE attribute bonuses in abilities) and 25% bonus to duration of panicked foes and burning duration.

[Adhin]

Yeah I'm liking they got attribute bonuses in passives. While not mage related I liked the warrior one that gives stamina back for auto-attacks if you hit more then 1 enemy at once. That screams power spam in groups to me.

[andar91]

Yeah I'm liking they got attribute bonuses in passives. While not mage related I liked the warrior one that gives stamina back for auto-attacks if you hit more then 1 enemy at once. That screams power spam in groups to me.

 

Yeah, passives for any class are awesome in my opinion.

 

Like, for Rogue, I'd love to see something like:

 

Opportunistic Attacker: Every time you inflict a critical hit on a target, you regain 25% of your total Stamina. And you get a +3 to Cunning or something.

[wowsuper]

Judging from this Companions will have the same specializations as the PC. Varric is confirmed to be Artificer with this (assuming gadget = artificer, not a big leap), and it is stated the Quizzy can get this same ability, thus it is logical to conclude that Companions had predefined specializations that are a 1:1 match with the Inquisitor.

 

WONDERFUL. So our inquisitor will actually be the clone of a companion. 

 

Let me explain. It is a letdown because basically means we dont need many abilities, only 8, which means there are really few actives. Only those 29 spells max, yup, we basically already know 90% of the non spec spells...

There will be maybe situational skills that we will not use, because there is no room for them. Died before being born, great

 

Even an actual hack-and-slash-rpg with a simplified gameplay like diablo 3 gives the player more abilities to play around. And this is not an hack-and-slash, is it? 

 

MAJOR letdown. No radial menu is a dealbreaker for me.

 

Was just the radial menu gone, I would still be ok with the system but it's even worst: there are not enough talent and spells per party member to justify the radial menu.

 

So, every aspect of the talent/spell system that I cared about has gone wrong,

Oh, fu*k this sh*t. 

[Adhin]

Diablo 2, or 3, both did not give you 29 'active abilities'. Diablo 2 was a mix of active and passives. Everyone had at 'least' 1 passive and total of 30 'skills' (skill = being an active, aura (sustained) or passive). Meaning no character had exactly '30' active abilities which is what people are bitching about when they say there are only '29 abilities' at most on a single class. That's just the 'active', the passives nearly double that total.

 

As for Diablo 3, a WD has 23 active abilities which is very similar to to the total amount of skills you'd have access to as a mage with a specialization. Ultimately, the number of skills isn't what makes it a hack n slash or not. Diablo 2 and 3 are spam fests. You get the few skills that work for you and spam them like a crazy spaz till everything dies. You do NOT do that in Dragon Age, doing so means your out of resources and dead.

 

If the ONLY thing you 'cared' about was the number of total skills? Then it's relatively similar to past games. Unless you don't count passives in which case I consider you crazy. Passives are skills too, stop being skill-racist (this is a joke, but srsly folks passives count too, stop acting like they don't).

 

-edit-

Example of counting passives so we're not acting like blind chipmunks - Warrior would have a total of 61 'skills' if we count all specializations if they're the same as what we saw with Reaver (which is entirely possible to not be the case). Bwah? 61? Boy that sure looks a lot larger then 29. That's not counting upgrades either, which would bring it up closer to 84-ish.

 

But hey, more tactical depth to the skills don't matter, lets ignore over half the **** and just ****** about a smaller number being the end all of everything. Skys falling and all that nonsense.

 

-more edits cause why not-

Dragon Age Origins, the best of all things and all that had a total of 244 'things' (passives, actives, sustained) that is including all specializations and bonus class bar from Awakening 'expansion' (not the base game). The expansion I may point out added 36 of those but folks like pretending its all 1 thing that came out at once so... 244, from the start! Oh, forgot the blood DLC skills, that was 2 per class so... 250!

 

At 84 each in DAI it's 252 and this is not counting perks and bonuses you'll gain from are war table perk stuffs. Or whatever that ends up being, looks like mostly xp bonuses and chat options. This is a tad less then DA2 though, as DA2 had 270 total (10 per web, 9 tabs per class) DA2 did a pretty good job of diversifying things compared to DAO. DAO had A LOT of redundancies, but DA2 didn't do to much to make things more tactical or strategic.

 

DAI we've already seen far more interesting passives and interesting uses of spells. Fire/Ice wall, a lightning spell that creates a ring of electrical stunning. I get the radial menu not having skill use (radial menu is still there) kinda sucks from the point of view of having extra stuff to use when you need it. But damn people it's not the end of the freakin' world. They've already shown more interesting stuff from a skill perspective then whats been in any of the past games.

[PillarBiter]

Hmm, to be honest, the leaving out of the radial ability select IS a bit of a let down for me as well. I don't really see a reason for this, unless it is to make the tactical camera, selecting abilities per person more streamlined. 

 

To be honest, I always had just not enough with 6 slots for each characters. Sustaineds you can just turn on and then forget about, and passives are just awesomesauce this time around, apparently. So 8 should normally be allright.

 

But then again, I've already been calculating...

 

1 for the block/counter ability

1 for dodge

1 for the chain

1 for taunt

1 for tremor

1 for earthshaking strike

1 for whirlwind...

 

This doesn't leave wme with a lot of other options... :/

 

Ah well, guess I'll figure it out when it comes around. I plan on spamming the awesome tremor anyway  

[Gamemako]

This confuses me, the spirit tree description claims it involves healing and there are two spells that look like heals yet it seems like they are saying there aren't specific healing spells but there are spells that can be used as heals.

Well, the upper could be any number of healing-related things: quick revival, cleanse, etc. I still think the lower one is the only real healing one and is focus-related, which makes it extremely limited.

It's possible that "healing" refers to slow-acting and fairly weak spells like Regeneration from DA:O, rather than an instantaneous healing spell.

I suppose that's also possible, but I'm not sure how you keep people from just camping outside of combat and regenerating their way to max HP (or abusively prolonging fights to regen if they take the ham-fisted route and prevent abilities from being used out of combat).

Yeah I know, like I said its kind of disappointing though I only ever really used 6 anyway in DA2.

In DA:O, I used quite a few at times, but that game just had an absurd number of spells. In DA2, I used 14 active on my mage Hawke, of which 4 were damage (Chain Lightning, Tempest, Stonefist, Fist of the Maker) and 10 were support (Petrify, Horror, Dispel Magic, Heal, Group Heal, Revive, Haste, Telekinetic Burst, Gravitic Ring, Pull of the Abyss). In DA:I, I'll have 3 KE spells, 5 spirit spells, and... well, good thing I'm on PC, because I'd be out of spell slots right there. There's no way I'd want as a console player to have to take Dispel off my bar and reload any time an enemy mage showed up.

This complaint is going to show up a lot in postmortems, I'd wager.

[Adhin]

Yeah PillarBiter that's... that's the real issue on my end. I'm super happy we have 8 binds now with a controller (and im assuming hotbar for non-controller PC interface). Picking what 8 things to takes gonna be difficult. I know 3 will end up being Reaver on my warrior so 5 others, was originally thinking roll 'and' counter with the 2h but I may end up just taking counter since roll doesn't seem to 'move' you very far. Bullrush thingy instead to get to places quicker? Either way that just leave 3 things I'm unsure of and I know I'll want some stuff in Vanguard and all that.

 

So yeah happy it's 8 now, bummed it's ONLY 8. If we had weapon swap that completely changed all that up like in DAO I'd be a lot happier with that but thats not happening. Oh well, I know I'll get something I'll be semi-happy with but like most games that shoehorn your total number of things you can use at any given time I know there will be like 2-3 things I 'wanna use but can't really'. Radial was great for that, may not use em often but at least it was there to use.

 

-edit-

Yeah, the 6 mostly was my warrior to be fair, or rogue. Mage I ended up keeping AoE out of my hotkeys. Anything else that didn't require a ground target went on my 6 hotkeys. The rest where 'well it'll require targetting so radial menu'. Sustained remained in radial. The only sustained I didn't keep on radial and actually had hotkeyed was stuff like Rage or the Reavers AoE sustained. Since those required on/off and pausing for radial every, damn, fight was... yeah not happening. Convenience thing there.

 

There will definitely be 2-3 abilities (as I said above in this same post, edits heh) that I'll have trouble picking between. It'll cause me to go a little crazy, I just know it.

[Gamemako]

Yeah, the 6 mostly was my warrior to be fair, or rogue. Mage I ended up keeping AoE out of my hotkeys. Anything else that didn't require a ground target went on my 6 hotkeys. The rest where 'well it'll require targetting so radial menu'. Sustained remained in radial. The only sustained I didn't keep on radial and actually had hotkeyed was stuff like Rage or the Reavers AoE sustained. Since those required on/off and pausing for radial every, damn, fight was... yeah not happening. Convenience thing there.
 
There will definitely be 2-3 abilities (as I said above in this same post, edits heh) that I'll have trouble picking between. It'll cause me to go a little crazy, I just know it.

It's especially wonky with the focus abilities, which are just taking up space on your bar unless you have focus or know you're in for a fight. Things like Dispel, Mind Blast, and your heal will just sit there most of the time. It's like they intentionally tuned it for multiplayer...

[Kage]

Wait a sec, folks.

 

We can still change our abilities around, we just ASSIGN them to those buttons. We will likely have more than 8 abilities unless you purposefully avoid active abilities and go for passives after getting 8. Plus, we had less in DA2 as well because the upgrade system made focusing on key abilities (imo) more fruitful than just grabbing a bunch of abilities in their basic form.

 

@Kage: The radial menu IS in, we just can't use abilities from there. We've seen it in demos (like the E3 demo, for instance).

 

Yeah, but if you choose an ability you have to get rid of another one.

The problem I have with this is that it kills certain skills before even using them, as I said. There are situational skills that you only use from time to time, or for the fun of it even if they are not very good.

 

I remember with my Reaver Warrior in DAO, I only used Aura of Pain and Frightening Apearance from time to time, because those were bad skills, although it added to my character and it was fun. If there were multiple enemies, I would aura of pain just for fun. However, I did not have it mapped because there was only room for other abilities I used more.

 

In DA2, I remember my Hawke had a force spell I barely used, the one that is like a glyph of repulsion. Force mage had so many CC spells that the repulsion one was the spell I barely used, was not mapped, and I would use only in emergencies when the other 2 OP CC spells were on cooldown.

 

If I were to play again DAO or DA2 without being able to use skills from the wheel, I would just never use them. I would never feel like my warrior was a reaver because its abilities were subpar, and therefore it would be a clone. I loose RPG feeling. And in DA2 I would die in a certain moment because I dont have access to repulsion, I would loose options.

 

I really dont like this, and I dont understand why they have decided such a thing.

[Adhin]

@Gamemako: Hahaha, yeah. I will say with the recent QnA for combat I was happy to find out the focus 'bar' is actually per-character. So while everyone bar is filling up at the same rate it's individual not a group focus bar. So you don't have to hold off on your warrior focus consuming super power cause your mage may need it for later. So at least there is that. It also seems like with how the focus thing works your going to want like... 1 per char. That is, instead of shooting for 5 different focus abilities you'll want 1 that defines that chars role. Heal or some kinda huge protective or CC thing for a support mage, that kinda thing.

 

Personally I'm hoping the Reaver has some kinda focus thats super awesome. If that ends up being some kinda Reaver-Barb leech rage? I'm set, that's my focus right there. If it ends up being the life consume thing and just does an AoE leech instead of single target (or corpses) and that's on focus? Sure, I'll use that and use it when shits going south. Actually really curious what all the focus abilities are, I'd imagine there is 1 per tab for something to shoot for. And if thats the case there's no reason to fully max down a line if your just going to use 1 of the focuses. Which means more passive/upgrade focus for me for sure.

 

-edit-

Just had another thought. I wonder if we will be limited to the 8 hotkeyed abilities for AI to handle? If AI controlled could use all available for there routines then we could at least set up some minor use case things that aren't on the hotkeys for when we swap over. Then again I'd imagine instead of specific abilities the AI may be selecting which hotkey to use for whatever and all that.

[wowsuper]

If the ONLY thing you 'cared' about was the number of total skills? Then it's relatively similar to past games. Unless you don't count passives in which case I consider you crazy. Passives are skills too, stop being skill-racist (this is a joke, but srsly folks passives count too, stop acting like they don't).

 

No. I think I've been overly explicit about this in my previous posts but, to stress it out again: the only thing I cared was roleplaying customisation options. This includes number of active spells for a mage, variety in the basic spell trees, specs uniqueness, and more. If each companion will have a spec in common with the ones avaliable to the inquisitor, it means that the main character won't even stand out because of his/her personal fu*king spec.

 

The talent/spell system might feel great in combat, but it's clearly pauperised from a huge amount of roleplaying options. THAT was the only thing I cared.

[Kage]

It's especially wonky with the focus abilities, which are just taking up space on your bar unless you have focus or know you're in for a fight. Things like Dispel, Mind Blast, and your heal will just sit there most of the time. It's like they intentionally tuned it for multiplayer...

 

Indeed.

I also hope there are no inmunities or heavy resistances in this game, because if I have a "Winter's Grasp" and "Flashfire", which are basically 2 nukes, if they have short CD I would surely just not shortcut one of them to make room for other spells. If I then find an enemy inmune to the element I have mapped but not to the element of another skill I invested in but I have not mapped in a given time, OH HOW I AM GONNA RAGE AT MY TELEVISION...

[Adhin]

@wowsuper: Oh the companion thing. Yeah, I personally hope it's not 100% carbon copy of all specializations. Especially when we can't learn a damn thing from them. I mean if they're going to be carbon copys of are specializations... why don't they teach us it? Why do we have to go out of are way to learn it elsewhere? That just seems odd. But then that hasn't been confirmed one way or another. Merrill also had some blood magic but her spec, overall, was unique to her. So just cause Varric will be an artificer or something 'similar' to that doesn't really mean they all are. But its far more plausible now with the information we have which is definitely a bummer on that I agree.

 

Then again one of the trees we saw looked like a rift hand tree, and the fact we're the only ones capable of closing rifts - specialization specs or not - we're the special snowflake of the lot ultimately. So I don't really view that as being to game breaking to me. Specializations aside though I disagree. The mage may seem a little less then before but it's been spread out. DAO as my example, Mage was the only one with a vast array of **** to use. Everyone else was 2nd class to the mage in the area of skills and it kinda sucked. So I'm happy its even ended now.

[PillarBiter]

@Adhin: Damn, I forgot all about reaver and vanguard... 

 

Well, guess I'll just have to hope that either:

 

1) It's REAL easy to change to other skills somehow

2) there are plenty of passives/sustaineds to keep me happy.

 

Or I'll end up having to not use defense a lot... I AM a reaver of course I can just taunt and sit there and let them walk into my block -> tremor -> whirlwind. Thing is, I'm usually and evader, not a blocker in action games...

 

But then again, this is all based on conjecture. We still don't know what all the abilities 'll do, or how they fit in my playstyle.

 

 

 

I do feel for mages though. I mean, I don't really agree with the argument that there have to be a ridiculous amount of useless spells like in DAO, but being somewhat 'restricted' to a streamlined 8 is kind of a bummer. That said, in DAII, 95% of the time, I only used 6 spells anyway. But still...

 

This is also what kind of made kingdom of amalur feel restricted. I mean, you could have tons of abilities there that were useful, and a really good build, but 6 restricted for use was a bit too few... especially sorcerers. They HAD to invest in EVERY spell in order to get the good spells, but could only use 2/3rd of them, which was a lot of waste

[Adhin]

Yeah, there is a high probability I wont use counter or dodge at all on my Reaver. Kinda depends what makes sense for most stuff really. In the end though I make tanks that thrive off taking dmg and whatnot. like Tank-Barbs with life leech weapons. Which reminds me in a recent interview from gamescom they DID confirm weapon mods that add life leech, woot woot. So that'll be on my 2H'er for sure.

 

That is one reason Reaver really fits my usually warrior style with these kinds of games. I can make em tanky, rely on kills to speed up/gain dmg, health lose = more dmg. And they often have some form of life leech skill to self-heal to sustain the slaughter. I just really like the awkward haphazard synergy with tanking that ends up providing.

 

As for mages, yeah, bummer. but then it looks like there are less sustained and more passives for everyone (as in, many sustains seem to of gotten a passive replacement). I know one mage I got planned wont be to screwed over. Necromancer with some Ice magic. Definitely want that Icewall, probably wont use blizzard though.

[Kage]

I do feel for mages though. I mean, I don't really agree with the argument that there have to be a ridiculous amount of useless spells like in DAO, but being somewhat 'restricted' to a streamlined 8 is kind of a bummer. That said, in DAII, 95% of the time, I only used 6 spells anyway. But still...

 

This is also what kind of made kingdom of amalur feel restricted. I mean, you could have tons of abilities there that were useful, and a really good build, but 6 restricted for use was a bit too few... especially sorcerers. They HAD to invest in EVERY spell in order to get the good spells, but could only use 2/3rd of them, which was a lot of waste

 

My level 20 blood mage Hawke had around 12-14 spells, and I used them all...

Spirit bolt, walking bomb, mind blast, elemental weapons, blood magic, sacrifice, hemorrhage, blood slave, grave robber, crushing prison, heal and glyph of paralysis, IIRC. Of those, in DAI I would understand elemental weapons and blood magic to be passives. But what about the 10?

 

Which 2 spells I would have to not use? I just cant decide!

 

Oh, what a major letdown has this been to me.......... I dont understand, why not let us use the wheel??????

[Patchwork]

This 8 slots thing is that only for console players? 

[PillarBiter]

This 8 slots thing is that only for console players? 

 

I'm guessing so, yeah. But then again, pc's probably won't get the radial menu either, they'll just have more bind buttons.

 

 

One more thought: I kind of fear for the use of situational spells. I mean, this time around, they made a bunch of situational spells like focus and the inquisitor's rift abilities. Why make something that's a major new addition hard to use in the user interface? I just don't get it...

 

I'm really hoping a dev or someone who playtested it will comment on this further...

[Sidney]

The slots thing doesn't bother me for rogues or warriors as truthfully I likely didn't use more than 8 actives since they were so weighted to sustains.

 

For mages it is a more more bothersome but not much. In the 90% world where we are killing off mindless trash mobs I think it is fair to say I used the same 6-8 spells over and over and over. The "other" spells were the ones that got saved for the special moments - mana clash for example.

[andy6915]

So wait, no more radial menu and no more selecting of talents from said radial menu? So like Kingdoms of Amalur, I have to assign them to use them and they can only be used when assigned? That sucks genitals.

[Sidney]

So wait, no more radial menu and no more selecting of talents from said radial menu? So like Kingdoms of Amalur, I have to assign them to use them and they can only be used when assigned? That sucks genitals.

 

 

But you can assign them at anytime so it isn't like you have inaccessible abilities.

[Patchwork]

I'm guessing so, yeah. But then again, pc's probably won't get the radial menu either, they'll just have more bind buttons.

 

 

One more thought: I kind of fear for the use of situational spells. I mean, this time around, they made a bunch of situational spells like focus and the inquisitor's rift abilities. Why make something that's a major new addition hard to use in the user interface? I just don't get it...

 

I'm really hoping a dev or someone who playtested it will comment on this further...

 

We've always just had the 14 buttons, no radial menu for us. 

 

Thanks for the answer

[Hellion Rex]

So wait, no more radial menu and no more selecting of talents from said radial menu? So like Kingdoms of Amalur, I have to assign them to use them and they can only be used when assigned? That sucks genitals.

The radial menu is still there, you just can't select talents from there.

[andy6915]

The radial menu is still there, you just can't select talents from there.

 

That's dumb. That's really dumb. Like, "fell down a flight of stupid" or "fall off a cart full of stupid" dumb. Like, that's "your grocery bag tearing and spilling $100 in groceries all over the parking lot on your way to your car" dumb.

 

Bioware dropped the freaking ball on this one. What. The. F*ck.