That's dumb. That's really dumb. Like, "fell down a flight of stupid" or "fall off a cart full of stupid" dumb. Like, that's "your grocery bag tearing and spilling $100 in groceries all over the parking lot on your way to your car" dumb.
Bioware dropped the freaking ball on this one. What. The. F*ck.
They'll probably have had a good enough reason for this, I'd just like to know WHY. Maybe their new solution is even handier to use, who knows? But I would very much like to see the alternative.
But you can assign them at anytime so it isn't like you have inaccessible abilities.
The Kingdoms of Amalur system was incredibly annoying, but that wasn't just a matter of having to go into the menu to change skills. It also had to do with the way the menu itself was set up and how many steps you had to go through to map something. DAI may or may not suffer from this particular problem. In Amalur, it was easier to simply never use more than 6 abilities/spells on a given character. There were also a lot of passives and upgrades to be learned along the way, but the menu issues caused me to almost never use my non-mapped powers.
The quote form Laidlaw says, "in the field," which I initially took to mean "not in combat." I was pretty shocked when I first heard this news, but I admit that it seems unlikely that we will be completely locked out of the menu during combat and unable to switch skills... so while it may wind up being too cumbersome to be worth the effort, I agree that the ability to use all of our powers will probably still exist in some form. It's not ideal, and I still don't understand why we can't have powers on the radial wheel, but it's better than nothing.
So the radial menu will be your just in case situational talents that you can drop into one of your 8 slots even during combat?
The quote form Laidlaw says, "in the field," which I initially took to mean "not in combat." I was pretty shocked when I first heard this news, but I admit that it seems unlikely that we will be completely locked out of the menu during combat and unable to switch skills... so while it may wind up being too cumbersome to be worth the effort, I agree that the ability to use all of our powers will probably still exist in some form. It's not ideal, and I still don't understand why we can't have powers on the radial wheel, but it's better than nothing.
I assumed in the field meant anywhere. If it is only not in combat that will get annoying. Like I've said, 90% of fights are your basic crowd control trash mob killing things.....but those things are often not useful vs bosses and mini-bosses. I'd hate to have to "guess" what spells I need in the next room. Mana Clash (as an example) was an insanely useful spell in very specific circumstances so I never mapped it but I could get to it in combat. Not being able to access it combat would make it either useless or take up a slot for something you use < 10% of the time.
So the radial menu will be your just in case situational talents that you can drop into one of your 8 slots even during combat?
No.
The radial menu has no abilities on it. It has potions and various other things, but no skills/abilities/talents (w/e the correct terminology is for DAI).
If you want to use an ability that isn't mapped to one of the 8 keys, then you have to go into the game menu, navigate to the skill, map it to a key (override another ability which is now unusable), then go back to the game and use the ability. Then if you need that ability you 'unmapped' you have to repeat the process.
It seems needlessly cumbersome to me. Having both 8 mapped abilities, plus a full list of abilities on the radial menu would be the preferred approach to my mind.
I'm never going to play DAI on a console, so this won't affect me at all, but I sympathize with the console goers plight in this.
Guest_IceQuinn_*
I'm (wishfully) thinking, from the top of my ignorance, this w/ the radial menu is to incentive strategy, well-thought tactics balancing mindless pew-pew-pew. It's just new to what we've grown accustomed to and might take some adapting to, but not necessarily a horrible thing. Some will like/hate it, other won't care less. Can't really say anything until I've actually played it myself.
I mean, the game has been play tested to exhaustion. If this was such a huge gap & breaking the experience in any way, it'd been reconsidered and "fixed", at this juncture. Makes me think it's on purpose, and as such for the best. Instead of: all I need is a tank, a healer, DPS... etc, at any given situation, more like:
Going into this battle. I'll be doing dmg (map accordingly), while Solas will provide support this time around. Or a mix. We might need more crowd control (map away). And so forth. Each or some of these combat scenarios might require different strategies, as opposed to, this is my char's hot bar for the entirety of the game, if I need something else, there's the radial menu. I don't know if I'm making any sense. And I'm sure there may be times where I'll go "dangit, didn't see this coming & wish I had mapped X ability" perhaps even annoyed for having to in the first place; but overall it's towards strategizing and preparing yourself for different encounters; and though there might be a learning curve, I'm sure not only we can get used to it, but it might a pleasant surprise & a change for the best! 
Something else to consider: don't think Tactics are tied into this, your Companions & Inquisitor will still use unmapped abilities that you have assigned them to meet whatever conditions. Another plus IMO towards strategizing, in that you can scout/analyze the field, plan ahead some neat stuff out & maybe fill in that which you've "left out", so to speak... O.o?
Do we know of any of Inquisition's abilities are upgradable (like DA2's)?
One thing I didn't like about how DA2 did that was that you couldn't use the regular ability any more after you'd upgraded it. So there was a disincentive to upgrade.
I hope Inquisition doesn't do this.
We saw at least one upgrade on an ability. Not all abilities had an upgrade though, and I think we only saw a single upgrade on one of the fire abilities (we only saw 1/2 the tree however).
You know, with how much their pushing for console and PC versions being 'the same' I honestly don't know if PC will get more then 8 hotkey slots. I just don't think people should be expecting PC with mouse/keyboard to be getting 14-20 or whatever. From a development standpoint, if I was going to be disallowing radial menu skill use and require it be 8 hotkey slots, i wouldn't circumvent that 'entirely' on 1 of the platforms via different UI.
You know, with how much their pushing for console and PC versions being 'the same' I honestly don't know if PC will get more then 8 hotkey slots. I just don't think people should be expecting PC with mouse/keyboard to be getting 14-20 or whatever. From a development standpoint, if I was going to be disallowing radial menu skill use and require it be 8 hotkey slots, i wouldn't circumvent that 'entirely' on 1 of the platforms via different UI.
PC's have always gotten a better UI than their console brethren (with expanded key mappings to boot), so I'd be far more surprised if Bioware didn't give the PC an unlimited (limited only by space) quick bar. If they did limit it then every PC elitist (probably me as well) would scream to high heaven like little girls (out best move 
) that nubby console gamers have dumbed down their game (and would be kind of right).
The console button map is due to physical limitations of the console controller (neither a good nor bad thing, it simply is), while PC does not have that same problem. When they say equality between platforms they really mean how the game plays (not the UI). They don't even mean graphics will be the same between new consoles and PC, because higher end PCs will always have better graphics capability than contemporary consoles (paying for it with a graphics card that costs as much as an entire console, plus a motherboard, cpu, memory, and maybe graphics card on top of that). So take 'equal' with a grain of salt. Some parts will be equal, the important stuff like the story, combat, statistics, etc. But the UI and graphics will be better on PC. (I suppose the UI being better is more subjective, but I've always preferred the PC UI to console UI for almost all games).
Except the consoles could have more.The console button map is due to physical limitations of the console controller (neither a good nor bad thing, it simply is), while PC does not have that same problem.
Except the consoles could have more.
In NWN, there were 48 hotbar slots that were accessible through the use of only 15 keys (sometimes in combination). Console games almost never use the controller buttons this efficiently.
By pressing three of more buttons simultaneously (Right Trigger + Left Bumper + A, or Right Trigger + Left Bumper + B, etc). Idk why dev's don't take advantage of that as much as they could.
No. I think I've been overly explicit about this in my previous posts but, to stress it out again: the only thing I cared was roleplaying customisation options. This includes number of active spells for a mage, variety in the basic spell trees, specs uniqueness, and more. If each companion will have a spec in common with the ones avaliable to the inquisitor, it means that the main character won't even stand out because of his/her personal fu*king spec.
The talent/spell system might feel great in combat, but it's clearly pauperised from a huge amount of roleplaying options. THAT was the only thing I cared.
So, there's griping because the Inquisitor and companions will potentially have the same pool of abilities to choose from? Just like in Origins?
Huh. That's a first.
(Maybe it isn't important, but the Inquisitor will have unique abilities related to his/her green Fade scar)
Console games almost never use the controller buttons this efficiently.
I'm (wishfully) thinking, from the top of my ignorance, this w/ the radial menu is to incentive strategy, well-thought tactics balancing mindless pew-pew-pew. It's just new to what we've grown accustomed to and might take some adapting to, but not necessarily a horrible thing. Some will like/hate it, other won't care less. Can't really say anything until I've actually played it myself.
@We Stand Midnight Clad: My point wasn't a difference in PC vs Console. It's keyboard vs controller. PC can also use a controller this time around and the GUI is going to change when one uses it. There is no reason, at all, to limit the controller to 'not' using the radial menu (unless this is a MP/SP Parity thing). The Radial menu worked great in past games to compensate keyboard button mapping, I liked it but they have made the choice to disallow that.
That is what I was talking about and something a lot of PC folks here are kinda ignoring. They made a 'choice' to ensure you only have access to 8 'things' in combat at a time per character. That is a resource limiter, something that has to be taken into account in each combat situation, in character building. It's a fundamental part of how the gameplays. Your telling me, with that in mind, PC with out a controller plugged in will just circumvent that entirely? That this shift in gameplay will just 'not be there' for PC cause 'it has a keyboard'?
I mean sure it's possible but then they'd still have the radial menu for controller use is all im saying. My bets on Keyboard interface is going to have a bar of 8 hotkeys. And this is probably for a MP parity thing and focus on 8 abilities (and a slew of passives) being your main 'build'. Or maybe they just decided they hated controllers a lot and wanted to punish all of us non-keyboard users. Guess what I'm getting as is - prepare to be disappointed at your hotkey bar.
I hadn't thought of that. Of course you want the same abilities on the same buttons. Not taking advantage of muscle memory is terrible UI design.Hell, the very idea that you're going to regularly reassign buttons is inane. Not only does that beat the ever-loving ****** out of muscle memory (the number of wrong button presses would be NIGHTMARISH), it's such an incredible hassle that nobody bothers.
Yeah, B tends to be duck or dodge, or some kind of defensive reflex for me personally. X is used the most often, Y is used as a larger attack. So for me, personally, something I use often will be on X, a large powerful hit will be on Y, something defensive (weather that's a heal, a dodge, whatever) will be on B. Bumper will be for less used powerful or utility moves. I'll end up using left trigger swap + Bumper for my focus ability so it's out of the way and not something I will accidentally activate (not that I have accidents often but... you know, **** happens).
Already put a lot of thought into all that stuff, it's how I've bound stuff in the past and other games before/after DAO when the option is available. Do that on PC too with my extra mouse buttons, have ones I'm more comfortable so that's the quick 'need this now' stuff. I still think this is due to some kinda MP thing, but even then I think they coulda made due with a radial menu selection for some oddities you rarely use. Ah well.
@We Stand Midnight Clad: My point wasn't a difference in PC vs Console. It's keyboard vs controller. PC can also use a controller this time around and the GUI is going to change when one uses it. There is no reason, at all, to limit the controller to 'not' using the radial menu (unless this is a MP/SP Parity thing). The Radial menu worked great in past games to compensate keyboard button mapping, I liked it but they have made the choice to disallow that.
That is what I was talking about and something a lot of PC folks here are kinda ignoring. They made a 'choice' to ensure you only have access to 8 'things' in combat at a time per character. That is a resource limiter, something that has to be taken into account in each combat situation, in character building. It's a fundamental part of how the gameplays. Your telling me, with that in mind, PC with out a controller plugged in will just circumvent that entirely? That this shift in gameplay will just 'not be there' for PC cause 'it has a keyboard'?
I mean sure it's possible but then they'd still have the radial menu for controller use is all im saying. My bets on Keyboard interface is going to have a bar of 8 hotkeys. And this is probably for a MP parity thing and focus on 8 abilities (and a slew of passives) being your main 'build'. Or maybe they just decided they hated controllers a lot and wanted to punish all of us non-keyboard users. Guess what I'm getting as is - prepare to be disappointed at your hotkey bar.
This is EXACTLY what I was trying to express earlier, but you worded it better.
This change goes beyond the UI - it's a gameplay adjustment. Granted, if we can change them out at any time (including combat), it won't matter, but it will be tedious.
Guest_IceQuinn_*
So here's the thing. When you don't have enough ability slots, it doesn't promote good tactics, it just makes things spammy. Situational abilities and abilities you use for the sake of synergy with other abilities can never pay rent. Too few slots just makes you approach every fight in exactly the same way. Even if I know to have dispel on my bar for an encounter, it punishes me by reducing the number of abilities I can take and reducing possible combat variation -- spammy, not tactical.
Hell, the very idea that you're going to regularly reassign buttons is inane. Not only does that beat the ever-loving ****** out of muscle memory (the number of wrong button presses would be NIGHTMARISH), it's such an incredible hassle that nobody bothers.
I totally see your point; and while I was thinking, possibly better tactics in-between battles, you're saying, during battles it promotes spamming - which makes total sense and might be true, I hear you.
My thing is: if it's such a hassle, and a downgrade on previous game mechanics really to the detriment of gameplay and overall experience - which in theory, should aim to be better - how are we the first ones to notice this (not yet having played the game, not knowing *exactly* how it all works), why hasn't it been addressed, complained about, "fixed"? Something doesn't add up. I'm just saying, things that might strike us as odd now, there might be so much more to it, good things that'll pleasantly surprise us. And for us to be open to that, not to scream deal-breaker before knowing all the facts...
For what is worth: as of right now, I'm right there with you. I too, based on both previous games, will miss the darn radial menu and wonder what will life combat be without it... xD
I dont know if this was mentioned already, but in the gameplay video with the "male dwarfitor" (warrior) he quickly goes over his skilltrees and Iron Bulls which show:
Weapon and Shield, Two-Handed Weapon, Battlemaster, Vanguard, Inquisitor Hand Tree, Reaver
I hadn't thought of that. Of course you want the same abilities on the same buttons. Not taking advantage of muscle memory is terrible UI design.
We will have to adjust. I am sure every one will end up with 1 button for the "escape" skill (roll, blink, etc), and then we will have another one for "situational skill", and that will be the joker, the always changing skill slot. But we have to pay attention.
I expect a lot of people casting the Focus Haste instead of the Focus Revive/Heal, because they forgot to change the spell, and then raging at the TV.
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised by this apparently insane decision. I don't even see a reason why this lack of abilities on the radial menu should be a thing. It doesn't hurt the gameplay,; and it actually let's you use the aforementioned situational abilities without going through an unnecessary layer of interface. I don't know how to feel about it :\
It's frustrating that even with playable demos, nobody went and checked out the ability trees. Presumably, they could have. I keep checking for screenshots and recordings lol.
I'm on PC. I always change and remap everything to my preferences.We will have to adjust. I am sure every one will end up with 1 button for the "escape" skill (roll, blink, etc), and then we will have another one for "situational skill", and that will be the joker, the always changing skill slot. But we have to pay attention.
That's bad UI design.I expect a lot of people casting the Focus Haste instead of the Focus Revive/Heal, because they forgot to change the spell, and then raging at the TV.
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