6397 réponses à ce sujet

[Mornmagor]

There are also new trees according to the devs, so it could very well be something new. If Mages have more trees, it could be anything.

[Joseph Warrick]

"Hurting them just makes them mad"

 

 

DAE find this use of language not really the best style for a fantasy game or dragon age in particular? Maybe something a bit "fantasey" like "hurting them feeds their rage"? Or maybe make a reference to the fade and the veil here and there in the descriptions of magic schools? Something to keep the illusion?

 

I don't know. I hear a line like "as the world is torn asunder" and it doesn't sound like "it just makes them mad". I picture Morrigan adapting to this gameplay language and saying instead "and it's all just going to **** y'know?"

[Schreckstoff]

Damage reduction maybe?

Most likely.

 

 

This is what I'm talking about

[Adhin]

So just to throw this out there but if you look over the video (or images provided) you'll notice Iron Bull has skills that aren't linked up properly either. Like he just has a skill floating in the middle of something where he'd of had to spend more points to get there. I think the over tab image and whatnot are all just kinda thrown in to 'fill it out' and what each person has to use is determined wildly outside of that. All for the sake of the demo to give a visual representation.

 

Another thing to keep in mind, the QnA someone asked: Q: Will Companions have all Base Class Skill Trees AND their Specialization, or will their Specialization replace one of their Skill Trees?

 

...And the answer given was: A: It is an additional tree (MD)

 

So, unique specialization or not the companions get ALL the skill tabs like in DAO, not DA2 (or Mass Effect games). There specialization, unique or otherwise, is simply an added tab just like it is for the Quizzy. The real question here is, least to me, how many skill tabs will there actually be? In the video its 4 + specialization, but as folks have mentioned you see different icons (with same names?) between Quizzy mage and Vivienne. Which leads me to believe what I said above - that it was all filled to 'fit' for a demo, not actually what we're getting.

 

So, hopefully we get more then 1 tab. oh and 1 more 'fun' thing if nothing else. Counted Warrior skills (not passives, actual use skills) in DA2 vs the demon with just Iron Bulls mangled skill list. 47 on Iron bull, 46 in DA2 counting 'all 3' specializations (32 with out specializations). No idea what to take from that, other then 'over 200 skills' looks to be making a tad more sense...ish? Either way hopefully that means there's a bit more overall tabs with 10 skills on average.

[mikeymoonshine]

So just to throw this out there but if you look over the video (or images provided) you'll notice Iron Bull has skills that aren't linked up properly either. Like he just has a skill floating in the middle of something where he'd of had to spend more points to get there. I think the over tab image and whatnot are all just kinda thrown in to 'fill it out' and what each person has to use is determined wildly outside of that. All for the sake of the demo to give a visual representation.

 

Another thing to keep in mind, the QnA someone asked: Q: Will Companions have all Base Class Skill Trees AND their Specialization, or will their Specialization replace one of their Skill Trees?

 

...And the answer given was: A: It is an additional tree (MD)

 

So, unique specialization or not the companions get ALL the skill tabs like in DAO, not DA2 (or Mass Effect games). There specialization, unique or otherwise, is simply an added tab just like it is for the Quizzy. The real question here is, least to me, how many skill tabs will there actually be? In the video its 4 + specialization, but as folks have mentioned you see different icons (with same names?) between Quizzy mage and Vivienne. Which leads me to believe what I said above - that it was all filled to 'fit' for a demo, not actually what we're getting.

 

So, hopefully we get more then 1 tab. oh and 1 more 'fun' thing if nothing else. Counted Warrior skills (not passives, actual use skills) in DA2 vs the demon with just Iron Bulls mangled skill list. 47 on Iron bull, 46 in DA2 counting 'all 3' specializations (32 with out specializations). No idea what to take from that, other then 'over 200 skills' looks to be making a tad more sense...ish? Either way hopefully that means there's a bit more overall tabs with 10 skills on average.

 

Thanks, that was very informative. I must have missed that question when I read the Q&A. 

 

The unlinked up skills could be because they are quite early on in the game but they wanted to show off more abilities. The team is incredibly over powered in the demo anyway. 

 

Yeah your explination of the difference in the trees makes sense so it could easily be that. 

 

What confuses me the most is the amount of primal abilities we have seen. They said the cap was like 25-30 and I don't think we get more abilities per level. I think I have seen half that in primal skills alone and that's not including upgrades. So I am a bit confused about it.

[Raven X]

hoping that the lack of mage staff melee attacks is also due to the early build.

[Mornmagor]

I assume staff melee attacks will be in, i don't expect everyone to be obliged to become a Knight Enchanter just to melee.

[Adhin]

@Mikeymoonshine: Yeah I'm also curious what the real level cap is. DAO it was 25 but with out the expansion (which increased it) you kinda tipped at 23. So is the cap 30 and they just 'expect' us to get inbetween 25-30 after 100 hours? Is the level cap more like DA2, 50 and again they just expect about 25 to 30 on a full playthrough? They did mention how the game doesn't end, how it continues on in 'world states' based off your main story choices and all that.

 

Either way also keep in mind in past games we got more then 1 skill at level 1 (1 pre-spent, 1-2 to spend), 1 per lvl there after, and then on top of that there was always like 4-5 skill books to give bonus points. So while you may of been 20, you actually had like 26-ish skill points. lvl 30 in this game could easily be more ilke 35-40 skill points to actually spend. Either way, after awhile you start running out of hotkey slots and getting into territory of 'why do I have so many active abilities I don't use. So... yeah.

 

As for Mage Melee, I don't think you'll see it with a staff personally. Sure DA2 had it, and maybe they'll do the murder-knife flail if your using a bow and something gets up close and personal... maybe. But DAO never had it, and a lot more of this seems more DAO oriented then DA2 when it comes to a lot of the choices. On top of that Knight Enchanter has (assuming sustained) spells that summon weapons specifically for melee.

 

Sure they could simply do a lot more dmg then your base staff (most definitely will) making it far more worth wild to melee with it. And I think it would be nice if they had the melee animations in for the staff if stuff got close. I'm just not holding my breath due to that specialization. While I don't think having staff switch to melee animations would take away from the special snowflake of the Knight Enchanters melee, they probably do. I mean I would of prioritized Warrior Dual wielding also, and that was dropped. **** I don't think you need different animations, but that's another topic.

[Raven X]

the homing hand blast attack is pretty cool for the mages.

 

but, when an enemy is right in your face, and you have this big staff, it just seems highly "impractical" that you just don't whack him with it.  instead of continuing to go "pew pew pew."

[Schreckstoff]

the homing hand blast attack is pretty cool for the mages.

 

but, when an enemy is right in your face, and you have this big staff, it just seems highly "impractical" that you just don't whack him with it.  instead of continuing to go "pew pew pew."

Not so sure I'd whack a highly magical item around unless it was build for just that.

[Morroian]

@Mikeymoonshine: Yeah I'm also curious what the real level cap is. DAO it was 25 but with out the expansion (which increased it) you kinda tipped at 23. So is the cap 30 and they just 'expect' us to get inbetween 25-30 after 100 hours? Is the level cap more like DA2, 50 and again they just expect about 25 to 30 on a full playthrough? 

 

This is how I interpret it and its a good way to go.

[Adhin]

Yeah, I expect I'll probably hit 30 if I work at it, and hard cap or not, that's all I really need to think about when planning a character. Rough 30 points, knowing I'll probably have a few extra.

 

On mage melee again, I half agree. Like I said I would like it if you could hit people with the staff, but I'm not expecting it to be there. if it is, great icing on my delciious Dragon Age cake. But I wont be disappointed if its not there. If im holding a gun, and someone runs up to me im not going to go well, **** they're in melee range I might as well punch them. I mean I might, but I could also just hip-fire that gun too you know?

 

...also in the demo she still palm-blasted at melee range. But then there was a lot of awkward glitchy animation **** in the demo. So, here's hoping but not a horrible thing if it doesn't end up being there on release.

[mikeymoonshine]

@Mikeymoonshine: Yeah I'm also curious what the real level cap is. DAO it was 25 but with out the expansion (which increased it) you kinda tipped at 23. So is the cap 30 and they just 'expect' us to get inbetween 25-30 after 100 hours? Is the level cap more like DA2, 50 and again they just expect about 25 to 30 on a full playthrough? They did mention how the game doesn't end, how it continues on in 'world states' based off your main story choices and all that.

 

I hope so tbh but still they expect you to finish at 25-30 if it's true. 

 

 

 

Either way also keep in mind in past games we got more then 1 skill at level 1 (1 pre-spent, 1-2 to spend), 1 per lvl there after, and then on top of that there was always like 4-5 skill books to give bonus points. So while you may of been 20, you actually had like 26-ish skill points. lvl 30 in this game could easily be more ilke 35-40 skill points to actually spend. Either way, after awhile you start running out of hotkey slots and getting into territory of 'why do I have so many active abilities I don't use. So... yeah.

 

It's not soo much about how many skill points there is it's more about how on earth they expect us to complete some of these trees before we get to the end of this game. I have seen absolutely tons of fire and ice spells, we know some of them have upgrades and they aren't even all the primal abilities. It just seems a bit excessive, unless there is something we don't know yet that might explain it. 

 

Maybe you somehow get the ability for both elements when you acquire one? We know it's not like switching or based on your staffs element or anything but it could be something like that I guess. Or maybe there just aren't as many as there seem to be. 

[Adhin]

I don't think there are as many as you think there are. I mean you got about 10 actual use skills in that elemental tab. It's not going to be 10 ice spells. I've personally seen 2 Ice spells so far. The small-ish AoE that freezes, and the icewall. Saw a Fire explosion same as that ice one. Rock Fist, and in the camera old demo we saw a Meteor Storm spell. Everything else was normal staff pew-pew or non-elemental. The like 10 blast thing was a spirit spell for instance.

 

What Elemental spells can you pick out that you've seen? Ones I can remember I just mentioned, im curious.

[mikeymoonshine]

I don't think there are as many as you think there are. I mean you got about 10 actual use skills in that elemental tab. It's not going to be 10 ice spells. I've personally seen 2 Ice spells so far. The small-ish AoE that freezes, and the icewall. Saw a Fire explosion same as that ice one. Rock Fist, and in the camera old demo we saw a Meteor Storm spell. Everything else was normal staff pew-pew or non-elemental. The like 10 blast thing was a spirit spell for instance.

 

What Elemental spells can you pick out that you've seen? Ones I can remember I just mentioned, im curious.

 

There was a list in the old thread. I'll go look  

[luckyloser_62]

I don't think there are as many as you think there are. I mean you got about 10 actual use skills in that elemental tab. It's not going to be 10 ice spells. I've personally seen 2 Ice spells so far. The small-ish AoE that freezes, and the icewall. Saw a Fire explosion same as that ice one. Rock Fist, and in the camera old demo we saw a Meteor Storm spell. Everything else was normal staff pew-pew or non-elemental. The like 10 blast thing was a spirit spell for instance.

 

What Elemental spells can you pick out that you've seen? Ones I can remember I just mentioned, im curious.

There is the spell that seems to work like winter's grasp and ice wall that we have seen. One reviewer that saw the behind closed doors demo mentioned a cold spell called cold snap that could be what we saw in the demo, or perhaps something new. The devs have also mentioned using ice glyps to immobilize enemies. In fire there is the meteor storm, the fire wall, and the fire spell we saw in the demo. I'm personally hoping for 3-4 spells in each element. Tempest and a lightning glyph, or perhaps a high damage single target spell would be nice alongside chain lightning. A return of earthquake would be nice, but I expect a return of rock armor and petrify with stone fist though. 

[andy6915]

Maybe they got rid of the "upgrade" powers, and that's how 30 points will be enough. By upgrades I mean how DA2 often had smaller icons off of the bigger ones that did things like "30% extra damage and chance to freeze" and "+5000% damage to brittle" and "heal replenishes an extra 20% health". Like maybe every power you get is as good as it's going to get and already has all those extra upgrades by default. To put it in DA2 terms, something like healing aura if it was in DAI would have its faith and radiance upgrades already applied just by getting base healing aura.

 

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Healing_Aura

 

Doing that would make each upgrade far more significant than in DA2 because every spell and talent would already be as good as it can be just from getting it, and would make the number of points you need to max a tree much less.

[mikeymoonshine]

Currently seen elemental spells:

Wall of fire

Wall of ice

Winter's grasp

Fireball

Firestorm

Ice skill above Firestorm in new UI (Cone of Cold? Blizzard?)

Ice glyph

 

 

There also seems to be a fire glyph. 

[Adhin]

@Andy: They had upgrades in both demos so... nope. The 2-handed tree had 10 skills, actual use or passive skills, and 5 separate upgrades spread through out that.

 

Hmmm, yeah Glyphs could be the same as Winter Grasp. Seems redundant to me to have a Ice Glyph that does the same thing as Winter's Grasp... might as well just make em glyph skills, can still be used offensively. Going off that (for speculation sake)....

 

Glyph Fire / Ice

Wall Fire / Ice

Fire Ball / Coldcone

Lightning bolt thing

Earth Fist

Firestorm

 

That's 9 abilities. Actually, the Glyphs could be upgrades also. Winter Grasp -> Glyph upgrade lets you use it as a trap as well as offensive. Anyway that's 9 abilities overall. Considering 2-handed in the E3 Demo had '15' things, it wouldn't surprise me that the elemental tab has like 12 abilities or something, with less upgrades overall.

[Morroian]

That's 9 abilities. Actually, the Glyphs could be upgrades also. Winter Grasp -> Glyph upgrade lets you use it as a trap as well as offensive. Anyway that's 9 abilities overall. Considering 2-handed in the E3 Demo had '15' things, it wouldn't surprise me that the elemental tab has like 12 abilities or something, with less upgrades overall.

 

<deleted - I was wrong>

[luckyloser_62]

@Andy: They had upgrades in both demos so... nope. The 2-handed tree had 10 skills, actual use or passive skills, and 5 separate upgrades spread through out that.

 

Hmmm, yeah Glyphs could be the same as Winter Grasp. Seems redundant to me to have a Ice Glyph that does the same thing as Winter's Grasp... might as well just make em glyph skills, can still be used offensively. Going off that (for speculation sake)....

 

Glyph Fire / Ice

Wall Fire / Ice

Fire Ball / Coldcone

Lightning bolt thing

Earth Fist

Firestorm

 

That's 9 abilities. Actually, the Glyphs could be upgrades also. Winter Grasp -> Glyph upgrade lets you use it as a trap as well as offensive. Anyway that's 9 abilities overall. Considering 2-handed in the E3 Demo had '15' things, it wouldn't surprise me that the elemental tab has like 12 abilities or something, with less upgrades overall.

 

I'm hope there are just as many lightning and earth spells as ice and fire. I'm hoping the wall and glyph spells are in the creation tree, and perhaps they could take on the damage type/secondary effects of your staff. This may not be the case with the walls though at least, I think Viv may have used a wall that was the opposite of her staff type. I also hope each element has its own arm that isn't locked by others, each with 3 or 4 spells and their upgrades. 

[themageguy]

Currently seen elemental spells:
Wall of fire
Wall of ice
Winter's grasp
Fireball
Firestorm
Ice skill above Firestorm in new UI (Cone of Cold? Blizzard?)
Ice glyph
 
 
There also seems to be a fire glyph.

I'm thinking some of those spells is just the one spell, with the staff determining the elemental property of the spell.
For example, the glyphs, the missile spells, and the walls would have flame effects if you wield a flame staff.

This means if we get nature mad lightning staffs we could be seeing walls of stone and glyphs of lightning bursts.

[mikeymoonshine]

I'm thinking some of those spells is just the one spell, with the staff determining the elemental property of the spell.
For example, the glyphs, the missile spells, and the walls would have flame effects if you wield a flame staff.

This means if we get nature mad lightning staffs we could be seeing walls of stone and glyphs of lightning bursts.

 

Vivienne used fire and ice spells at the same time in the pax demo and the inquisitor uses allot of fire spells with an ice staff in the twitch demo. 

[Adhin]

Could be with the Glyphs. Could be some kinda staff-glyph, no idea wtf they'd call it, but it taking your staff element into account I could see... but for the most part if they did that with a lot of the stuff it would kill the variety of individual mages. I still think a glyph upgrade makes sense for a skill like Winter's Grasp. I mean it makes sense as an interesting evolution for that kind of a spell.

 

Walls I can't see, it drastically alters how they work. Fire's dmg, Ice is purely a tactical cover consideration. Rock would be Identical to Ice other then visuals, Lightning walls I've always thought are bizar but whatever, same as a Fire wall. What about Physical? Some kinda push back? They got glyphs for that. Spirit would be fire.... yeah. I don't think walls would be handled that way. I'd go out on a limb and say almost no spells are going to be based off your staff for the very reason I just mentioned.

 

That all said, i think 3 per 'type' would make a lot of sense, and I agree it would be nice if it was 4, separate arms. DA2 it was 2, separate tabs, DAO it was all under Primal. If I was to make a wild guess based off all of this and how they've been doing stuff? 2 Paths like in the E3 demo, tabs called Primal. Right sides Fire/Ice stuff, other sides Earth/Lightning. Last ability is Tempest and Firestorm. That or it's just all mixed up and mangled based off the kind of spell, not it's element. Who knows....none of us =P

[themageguy]

Vivienne used fire and ice spells at the same time in the pax demo and the inquisitor uses allot of fire spells with an ice staff in the twitch demo.

Oh don't get me wrong, there are definitely spells that are not influenced by staff elements, I was just thinking perhaps SOME of the spells we've seen function a lot how the Elemental Weapons spell did in DA2.

For example I'm pretty sure whenever I've seen a Mage character cast the missile spell ( the one that bursts out in front of the caster, kind of reminds me of magic missile storm spells from d&d) the element corresponds with the staffs element. In the demo we see the inquisitors wields an ice staff and both the missile spell and her basic missile attack are both ice.
Then we see Vivienne wielding a fire staff, and her missiles are flame.

I apologise, I should've been bit more cleare in my last post.