6397 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Haunter]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

 

Why does equipment even boost my stats? Why would putting on one set of clothes vs. another give me knowledge or enhance ability in an area? Why does all of this jewelry make me a more skillful fighter?

 

I like upgrading my gear as much as anyone, and I know gear-related stat boosts are genre standard. But I think it should be challenged. It makes a LOT more sense to me as passive upgrades: I trained in a particular way, and now my body knows how to do things differently. And maybe that means I can now learn an "activated" ability I couldn't before.

I actually like this strategy, to a certain extent. Some things like mana pool size could indeed be influenced by enchanted gear. But things like Cunning or Strength make more sense as level up bonuses (either as attribute points or parts of passives), while things like crit rating, damage, and other physical properties make sense on weapons and armor.

[Borosini]

I actually like this strategy, to a certain extent. Some things like mana pool size could indeed be influenced by enchanted gear. But things like Cunning or Strength make more sense as level up bonuses (either as attribute points or parts of passives), while things like crit rating, damage, and other physical properties make sense on weapons and armor.

I agree, especially as regards physical weapons. Staves that improve accuracy or auto-attack damage could be seen as implying that the magic comes from the staff and not the mage, of course.

 

But since those have precedent, it's probably best to assume the staff's properties conduct the mage's magic in a certain way, just as different types of wire conduct electricity more or less efficiently.

[wowsuper]

What I meant to say is that those passives just influence proficiency in something characters were already able to do. It's just a matter of percentages. How fast do I move, how much do I penetrate the enemy armor, how much damage do I inflict? Those percentages should be influenced by attributes, and they shouldn't pointlessly choke trees as passives. In fact I think this is just a redundant, dishonest, inexpensive way to fill up skimpy talent/spell trees.

That's how I see it, whether you like it or not.

[PillarBiter]

What I meant to say is that those passives just influence proficiency in something characters were already able to do. It's just a matter of percentages. How fast will I move, how much I penetrate the enemy armor, how much damage do I inflict? Those percentages should be influenced by stats, attrubutes, and they shouldn't pointlessly choke the trees: that's a redundant, easy, inexpensive way to fill up the rees.

That's how I see it, whether you like it or not.

 

yeah but things like 100% sêed boost actually change they way you can move around and thus play the game. Same with armor penetration, it significantly boosts the ability to remove armor. Maybe before you'd need 2 abilities to break an enemy's armor, and after that only one...

 

To me the passives seem a lot better than before already...

[andar91]

yeah but things like 100% sêed boost actually change they way you can move around and thus play the game. Same with armor penetration, it significantly boosts the ability to remove armor. Maybe before you'd need 2 abilities to break an enemy's armor, and after that only one...

 

To me the passives seem a lot better than before already...

 

I agree with this. The passives seem majorly powerful to me. 10% bonus to Armor Penetration, for instance, for ALL ATTACKS on a rogue. 

[LexXxich]

Don't look at enemy mages for possible spells. BW stopped giving them same options as PC after DAA.

[Borosini]

What I meant to say is that those passives just influence proficiency in something characters were already able to do. It's just a matter of percentages. How fast do I move, how much do I penetrate the enemy armor, how much damage do I inflict? Those percentages should be influenced by attributes, and they shouldn't pointlessly choke the trees as passives. In fact I think this is just a redundant, dishonest, inexpensive way to fill up skimpy talent/spell trees.

That's how I see it, whether you like it or not.

 

I understand—you want a slew activated abilities. (Or sustained modes, which seem to be nixed.) It's great that you find that valuable, and I'm sorry you're upset that you think this will change.

 

Passives aren't flashy and cool. I get it. But these seem very powerful, and definitely capable of influencing a build and play-style.

 

Further, the trees do seem improved over DA2 in terms of variability. Not counting upgrades, four actives is pretty generous for a DA2 tree, and an equal number of passives is incredible. I'm guessing what you're really upset over is not the passives, but the loss of sustains. That change probably has to do with the complete overhaul of encounter design and priorities devs have discussed at length.

 

[EDIT: Just saw Double Daggers has six actives. Six! At least in an early build. That's 75% of your available skill slots from one tree alone.]

[andar91]

I think Wowsuper has a point, IceQuinn.

 

Enemies don't necessarily have the same abilities we do, even if there is cross over. For instance, we've seen mages use Fire Mine, but that doesn't mean we get all of their abilities.

[Raven X]

eh, I really hope the Knight Enchanter and Rift Mage spells aren't all green.........

[Hellion Rex]

Hmmm, I see an Aura of Pain....

 

Did anyone else see the Mighty Blow that created a massive explosion? (0:28)

[Gamemako]

Apparently they are saying that a IGN article said only 4 skills are available for multiplayer.
I dont know why then the UI would show you the toogle to switch between both sets, but anyways...

Oh? Does seem to be true based on text, too. Two active abilities in the tree we saw, and only two trees per character. Bumper could swap to ME3-esque consumables -- potions, poisons, etc -- or a few default abilities (dodgeroll, chainhook, one focus ability?). It's possible that they have a number of default skills, though, because DA has basically nothing to offer a level 1 character with no abilities.

I mean, if it's true, then MP seems more than a little barebones. MP worked in ME3 with few skills because there was an engaging core combat mechanic even in their absence. An extremely skilled player could (in theory) solo Platinum without using any abilities at all. You have all of the necessary tools -- sprinting, dodging, aiming, taking cover -- available all the time. MP required a much greater level of execution from those core skills than SP. DA doesn't have that. DA's SP relies on having 4 characters with a large repertoire of skills available. I had my doubts that playing one character in DA MP could ever really be successful, being that it's essentially MMORPG-lite. Now that's cut even further, reducing it to a button masher with desperately-limited abilities. Blue Elementalist needs food badly!

//EDIT 3: Let's try this version: DA3MP has to work out as a completely different kind of game than DA:O or DA2 based on the same core systems. The rules are pretty incompatible, since one is a matter of managing stagger duration and player position and the other is about managing the output numbers and enemy position. This suggests we're either getting a whole lot more stagger spam in DA:I and AoE rules the day, or MP is going to be a lot of gear-based trading blows and ranged will rule the day. Nerf AoE/ranged, plx.

[themageguy]

Im still hoping we get some news on specs like tempest, rift mage and necromancer etc at pax

[themageguy]

Or at least the lucky people who get to play the mp demo will pass on what skills they used.
may give us on idea what skills we have in SP.

Im really keen on finding out the skills the Reaver, Keeper and Necromancer use.

[Kage]

I agree with this. The passives seem majorly powerful to me. 10% bonus to Armor Penetration, for instance, for ALL ATTACKS on a rogue. 

 

I agree, I admit they are not as fun as actives, clearly, but they can be very powerful.

And also since sustainables are out, there might be a lot of passives which are fun, implementing previous sustainables into passives.

 

I like them! (Although I am scared that they are too many, we will have to see)

 

- Redcliffe demo: Alexius uses Mind Blast and knocks back Iron Bull and the Inquisitor. Either: an upgrade was given to Mind Blast. Or: knockback is inherent to the spell, and in every other instance we've seen it used, either it didn't apply (chance to?) or the enemies were immune to it. That, in addition to inflicting effects such as: Weakened (Avvar leader) & Fear/Nightmare (MP).

 

Mind Blast deals damage (yellow): either Entropic (if related to the ellusive Stonefist being in Entropy, same color) or Knock dmg - i.e Blackwall's Mighty Blow dealing (yellow = Knocked Down?) damage.

Am I taking crazy pills, or (as far as speculation goes) this is making sense? O.o

 

You make sense, and I like the way you speculate with passion ;-)

 

However, there is another possible answer to those Mind Blast's variations. Mind Blast has been in DAI since the beggining, and maybe it did not have a skill tree yet, was not organized. When they finally decided to fit it into a specific skil tree, they might have changed the effect it gives from knockback to fear or sleep or whatever.

 

And another possibility, quite probable, is that skills in MP are not exactly the same than the ones in SP. Maybe at launch they are, but eventually we will see unique ones in MP for sure if MP is a success. Maybe the Mind Blast of SP knocks back, and the one in the Keeper (or whoever) does not, but instead fears people.

 

Keep in mind that cross class combos are going to be HUGE in MP, it will be the way to go in order to beat higher difficulties.

 

Oh? Does seem to be true based on text, too. Two active abilities in the tree we saw, and only two trees per character. Bumper could swap to ME3-esque consumables -- potions, poisons, etc -- or a few default abilities (dodgeroll, chainhook, one focus ability?). It's possible that they have a number of default skills, though, because DA has basically nothing to offer a level 1 character with no abilities.

I mean, if it's true, then MP seems more than a little barebones. MP worked in ME3 with few skills because there was an engaging core combat mechanic even in their absence. An extremely skilled player could (in theory) solo Platinum without using any abilities at all. You have all of the necessary tools -- sprinting, dodging, aiming, taking cover -- available all the time. MP required a much greater level of execution from those core skills than SP. DA doesn't have that. DA's SP relies on having 4 characters with a large repertoire of skills available. I had my doubts that playing one character in DA MP could ever really be successful, being that it's essentially MMORPG-lite. Now that's cut even further, reducing it to a button masher with desperately-limited abilities. Blue Elementalist needs food badly!

//EDIT 3: Let's try this version: DA3MP has to work out as a completely different kind of game than DA:O or DA2 based on the same core systems. The rules are pretty incompatible, since one is a matter of managing stagger duration and player position and the other is about managing the output numbers and enemy position. This suggests we're either getting a whole lot more stagger spam in DA:I and AoE rules the day, or MP is going to be a lot of gear-based trading blows and ranged will rule the day. Nerf AoE/ranged, plx.

 

They have said in articles that you start with some skills. I am not sure if it was 2 or 3, was not clear IIRC. And then we have 4 more actives to choose while leveling (speculated). One of the articles said there was a skill more potent to replace one of the starting ones. That can mean that it is the same, but a more powerful version, or just another skill that it is simply better, and you replace it because you can only map 4 abilities.

 

I find 4 abilities a little bit lacking for MP, specially if there is a focus one. (Which is kind of a given, since focus screams MP)

One of the 2 archer skill trees had 10 passives, 2 actives and 2 upgrades, which are 14 skills. If the other is the same you would have 28 skills to choose from while leveling, so you would only leave behind 8 skills. To get a new active, you need at least to invest only 3 skills points before to reach it (I have not seen any restrictions on level or number of skill points in the video). That means we could get all 4 skills and then have the starting ones with a level 20 MP character.

 

Well, I guess it kind of makes sense not to let us map 8 abilities... If we could, maybe all characters would look the same, getting all skills first, and then differenciating themselves only a little by the passives... Still..

 

 

In any case, are you now convinced that MP has nothing to do with the 8 skills restriction of SP? MP does not even have 8 skills lol

[andar91]

Multiplayer tree pic with a description for Shield Wall.

 

[LexXxich]

The word "sustain" sounds strange here. Is it a toggle like sustains in DA2 and DAO? Or does player activate it and it deactivates by itself after a successful block of one attack (which is how Block and Slash works)?
Also, I dislike the ambiguous wording. No numbers!

[andar91]

The word "sustain" sounds strange here. Is it a toggle like sustains in DA2 and DAO? Or does player activate it and it deactivates by itself after a successful block of one attack (which is how Block and Slash works)?
Also, I dislike the ambiguous wording. No numbers!

 

I thought it was sort of confusing too, but I imagine it works like this:

 

1.) Activate Shield Wall

2.) Every hit it takes consumes stamina

3.) Ability turns off when you either: 1.) Turn it off or 2.) You run out of Stamina

[CronoDragoon]

I thought it was sort of confusing too, but I imagine it works like this:

 

1.) Activate Shield Wall

2.) Every hit it takes consumes stamina

3.) Ability turns off when you either: 1.) Turn it off or 2.) You run out of Stamina

 

That gels with the information gleaned from the parry stance for 2h warrior from the Gamescom demo as well. Sustained abilities have been shifted to activated abilities that drain stamina instead of walling off a portion of it indefinitely.

[LexXxich]

Having good intentions is not a guarantee for good results.

[andar91]

Having good intentions is not a guarantee for good results.

 

Of course it isn't, and we won't know how it turns out until we play the game, and even then, it will likely be subjective and varied. When we know so little, pessimism is no more valid than optimism, and vice-versa.

[andar91]

The day MP was announced, did you see that MP thread? I fled like it was Lothering! While a couple posters expressed their concerns in a cool, reasonable manner, others acted like a horde of Darkspawn led by one King Joffrey on the pipe. People were being mean! To one another. To the Devs (the tweets that were fired? Seriously, who does that???). And over what? A MP feature, which btw, no one needs to play if they don't want to? UI? A radial menu? No no no. That can't be it. Something else's going on the inside.

 

LMFAO   Holy crap, can I use that as a sig?

 

 

And on a serious note: yeah, I second your points. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical or worried, but there are limits.