The reduced number of mage abilities is just painful to think about.
It's not really reduced, there is overall about the same number as there were in DA2, it's just the expansion of Fire and Ice abilities has come at the expense of Entropy and some of the Arcane/Spirit spells.
Guest_IceQuinn_*
I don't know if this has been said yet or not because thread is TL:DR, but judging by the name, Discord seems like it might have some interesting CC spells as well as fire spells. Like IceQuinn said, it would be nice if stuff like panic was in Discord which makes me wonder what's in Entropy. Could be strictly a CC Tree.
Do we know this yet for sure?
Discord & Discipline are no longer, apparently; it's now Inferno (Fire) & Winter (Ice). But fire may cause enemies to flee in panic, lightning spells cause Paralysis, and so forth - more along those lines. And Mind Blast (in MP - no indication it'd work the same in SP), we've seen it used in a cross-class combo where a Rogue uses a sort of Sleep powder on a couple enemies & the mage comes in with Mind Blast causing Fear/Nightmare as a result: effects which are also entropic in nature...
It's not really reduced, there is overall about the same number as there were in DA2, it's just the expansion of Fire and Ice abilities has come at the expense of Entropy and some of the Arcane/Spirit spells.
And from what it looks like (and makes sense to me) is that spells will hopefully have more than one effect other than simply having one purpose.
Discord & Discipline are no longer, apparently; it's now Inferno (Fire) & Winter (Ice). But fire may cause enemies to flee in panic, Lightning spells cause Paralysis, and so forth - more along those lines. And Mind Blast, (in MP - no indication it'd work the same in SP), we've seen it used in a cross-class combo where a Rogue uses a sort of Sleep powder on a couple enemies & the mage comes in with Mind Blast causing Fear/Nightmare as a result: effects which are also entropic in nature...
What i want to know is why the change in name? Does this mean there is something fundamentally different about those particular trees?
What i want to know is why the change in name? Does this mean there is something fundamentally different about those particular trees?
Probably just a reworking of how they want them to be presented to the player and what they think when they read the name. Calling them Discord and Discipline are a bit too lofty and abstract compared to Winter and Inferno which are pretty clear cut, you burn things, your freeze things. Discord sounds more like Entropy really and Discipline sounds like non-offensive spells, mostly buffs and protective spells.
Guest_IceQuinn_*
What i want to know is why the change in name? Does this mean there is something fundamentally different about those particular trees?
Nothing official. But it seems to me, back then they were being organized primarily in function. So, Discord, what the name implies but as it turned out 90% of that was, well, fire; same with Discipline/Ice. Familiarity may also have factored in. That'd be my (uneducated) guess... for what is worth, if it helps. 
Nothing official. But it seems to me, back then they were being organized primarily in function. So, Discord, what the name implies but as it turned out 90% of that was, well, fire; same with Discipline/Ice. Familiarity may also have factored in. That'd be my (uneducated) guess... for what is worth, if it helps.
Probably just a reworking of how they want them to be presented to the player and what they think when they read the name. Calling them Discord and Discipline are a bit too lofty and abstract compared to Winter and Inferno which are pretty clear cut, you burn things, your freeze things. Discord sounds more like Entropy really and Discipline sounds like non-offensive spells, mostly buffs and protective spells.
If thats the case I'm not really thrilled about the change. Names like discord and Discipline have so much depth to them IMO not only because of the name itself, but what it can symbolize.
Discord could work for a lightning tree.
I'm trying to think of ways Stonefist could be incorporated into a lightning tree or Spirit tree. Magnetism? Enchanting boulders with a short-lived spirit wisp?
I'll be sad if Stonefist has been nixed...
I'm trying to think of ways Stonefist could be incorporated into a lightning tree or Spirit tree. Magnetism? Enchanting boulders with a short-lived spirit wisp?
I'll be sad if Stonefist has been nixed...
Though I guess it's technically possible, I sincerely doubt that any abilities they've showed us (especially recently) have been outright cut.
Beyond stonefist have we seen any other earth abilities? Because I'm wondering that's the freebie we get at the the beginning of the game.
Beyond stonefist have we seen any other earth abilities? Because I'm wondering that's the freebie we get at the the beginning of the game.
Mmm... I know what you mean. First playthrough is going to be really weird.
Though I guess it's technically possible, I sincerely doubt that any abilities they've showed us (especially recently) have been outright cut.
I would tend to agree. Though... have we seen Stonefist at all since the E3 demo?
I would tend to agree. Though... have we seen Stonefist at all since the E3 demo?
Not that I'm aware of.
Though I still think E3 is as high profile as they come.
Not that I'm aware of.
Though I still think E3 is as high profile as they come.
Indeed. Didn't stop them from bailing on the hand blast auto-attack animations, though.
Indeed. Didn't stop them from bailing on the hand blast auto-attack animations, though.
Those were just temp animations while staff ones were being finalized.
This was my thought as well.
Beyond stonefist have we seen any other earth abilities? Because I'm wondering that's the freebie we get at the the beginning of the game.
Stonefist is the only earth ability we will have, it seems. Active I mean, maybe there are more passives in the tree, like Rock Armor.
I think whoever said it was right, that tree seems to be the "earth & sky" tree, maybe Primal.
So Inferno, Winter, Spirit and Primal.
I think we must say goodbye to crushing prison, walking bomb, etc. I dont think they are going to include an old spell into one specialization, it would be weird...
Poor crushing prison 
Stonefist is the only earth ability we will have, it seems. Active I mean, maybe there are more passives in the tree, like Rock Armor.
I think whoever said it was right, that tree seems to be the "earth & sky" tree, maybe Primal.
So Inferno, Winter, Spirit and Primal.
I think we must say goodbye to crushing prison, walking bomb, etc. I dont think they are going to include an old spell into one specialization, it would be weird...
Poor crushing prison
Uhhh...Blood Wound anyone?
Stonefist is the only earth ability we will have, it seems. Active I mean, maybe there are more passives in the tree, like Rock Armor.
I think whoever said it was right, that tree seems to be the "earth & sky" tree, maybe Primal.
So Inferno, Winter, Spirit and Primal.
I think we must say goodbye to crushing prison, walking bomb, etc. I dont think they are going to include an old spell into one specialization, it would be weird...
Poor crushing prison
Didn't Mike tweet about Walking Bomb at some point in the last few months? Crushing Prison at least has been re-imagined it seems into Static Cage, so now it does electric damage and paralyzes enemies.
Those were just temp animations while staff ones were being finalized.
Perhaps. Though why would a placeholder spell be less possible than a placeholder animation? Yes it seems like a wasted resource if it's unused, but in the end it's an animation just like anything else.
I'm just wondering because I can't see a clean way to incorporate Stonefist into any of the four main trees (the ones implied by todays "Mage Skills" feature). I personally think an earth + electric aka Primal tree is unlikely, just looking at the picture. I can't see anything in the symbol that represents earth. While we don't have much info at all about the specs, it doesn't seem like a clean fit there, either.
It's a "wait and see" thing. But I would argue that earth magic always had a little bit of an identity problem in DA—it never felt quite as iconic as the other elements, probably due to lack of "cone" or significant AOE spell—and I could see it getting cut if gameplay concept/balance demanded.
Of note: we do know there's a Rock Armor potion, like in DA2. Maybe the spell itself was seen as redundant?
I'm just wondering because I can't see a clean way to incorporate Stonefist into any of the four main trees (the ones implied by todays "Mage Skills" feature). I personally think an earth + electric aka Primal tree is unlikely, just looking at the picture. I can't see anything in the symbol that represents earth. While we don't have much info at all about the specs, it doesn't seem like a clean fit there, either.
It's a "wait and see" thing. But I would argue that earth magic always had a little bit of an identity problem in DA—it never felt quite as iconic as the other elements, probably due to lack of "cone" or significant AOE spell—and I could see it getting cut if gameplay concept/balance demanded.
Of note: we do know there's a Rock Armor potion, like in DA2. Maybe the spell itself was seen as redundant?
Yeah, and the lack of a way of incorporating everything is why I'm disappointed/upset/worried about losing the other options, though they could still appear in some fashion. Part of the issue may be that rogues get a lot of the same debuffs (like confusion and sleep powder) and warriors get buffs (one of the horn abilities is basically Heroic Aura). But I'm really sour about the idea of taking away from the mage to add to the other classes...AGAIN.
About earth magic: Yeah, it's always been tricky, but I think the core idea is really cool. Frankly, Shale had better earth-based abilities than a mage had in some ways.
Rock Armor isn't that exciting, though functional. Stonefist was alright. Earthquake never seemed to work. Petrify was useful, though I think that other lockdown spells were better in both games. I WANT it to work, though. Maybe a localized staff-slam earthquake ability or something.
Yeah, and the lack of a way of incorporating everything is why I'm disappointed/upset/worried about losing the other options, though they could still appear in some fashion. Part of the issue may be that rogues get a lot of the same debuffs (like confusion and sleep powder) and warriors get buffs (one of the horn abilities is basically Heroic Aura). But I'm really sour about the idea of taking away from the mage to add to the other classes...AGAIN.
About earth magic: Yeah, it's always been tricky, but I think the core idea is really cool. Frankly, Shale had better earth-based abilities than a mage had in some ways.
Rock Armor isn't that exciting, though functional. Stonefist was alright. Earthquake never seemed to work. Petrify was useful, though I think that other lockdown spells were better in both games. I WANT it to work, though. Maybe a localized staff-slam earthquake ability or something.
Dito.
Spoiler
Of note: we do know there's a Rock Armor potion, like in DA2. Maybe the spell itself was seen as redundant?
If there going for a more limited approach to diversify abilities and passives it looks like they are going the more selective route.
Guest_IceQuinn_*
Don't get me wrong, not only I would not mind but I would LOVE if mages were given more than 4 non-spec trees, including Entropy. But I don't get what all the fuss is about, ultimately nothing has changed. A more appropriate icon (and possibly name, too, we're guessing Primal) was given to a Lightning & Earth based tree, when it was called Entropy and had another icon. It's about what's been imparted. This (small) change, is a good one, the way I see it...
The whole Discord/Discipline woulda been better: seriously? First off, there's a question of familiarity with these magic schools. Secondly, imagine i.e you'd have to go through like 3 fire spells you didn't want for a completely unrelated, non-fire spell. That would've been worse, IMO. So things have been streamlined. A couple things had to go, yes. But lesser of evils & all. Most of the changes, I think, are coming together & shaping up in a rather nice way.
Ice Wall? Static Cage? I'm like, drooling over these spells! Lots of cool new stuff which maybe wouldn't have been possible, had they settled for just the one Elemental tree, for example. Again, it's looking on the bright side (which IMO by FAR surpasses any "cons"), taking what's been given to us (and there's plenty of REALLY cool stuff to look forward to) and making the best out of it. Another thing that bugs me: saying "this or that, they didn't do out of laziness". I mean, really? You HAVE GOT to be pulling my leg when you look at something like this and dare question the amount of hard work that went into it. It's like, some people can never be satisfied. You just gotta complain! Make sure it's a game that's really bothering you. Cuz I dunno, honey... 
At any rate: Stonefist, I'm certain it hasn't gone anywhere, will be right there in the "Primal' tree. And I'm still holding out hope for a couple signature DA spells such as Crushing Prison & Walking Bomb being in the specs - though I'm not counting on it. So far, to me, this is all already looking too great! 
November 18. You and I. Cannot wait! 
Don't get me wrong, not only I would not mind but I would LOVE if mages were given more than 4 non-spec trees, including Entropy. But I don't get what all the fuss is about, ultimately nothing has changed. A more appropriate icon (and possibly name, too, we're guessing Primal) was given to a Lightning & Earth based tree, when it was called Entropy and had another icon. It's about what's been imparted. This (small) change, is a good one, the way I see it...
The whole Discord/Discipline woulda been better: seriously? First off, there's a question of familiarity with these magic schools. Secondly, imagine i.e you'd have to go through like 3 fire spells you didn't want for a completely unrelated, non-fire spell. That would've been worse, IMO. So things have been streamlined. A couple things had to go, yes. But lesser of evils & all. Most of the changes, I think, are coming together & shaping up in a rather nice way.
Ice Wall? Static Cage? I'm like, drooling over these spells! Lots of cool new stuff which maybe wouldn't have been possible, had they settled for just the one Elemental tree, for example. Again, it's looking on the bright side (which IMO by FAR surpasses any "cons"), taking what's been given to us (and there's plenty of REALLY cool stuff to look forward to) and making the best out of it. Another thing that bugs me: saying "this or that, they didn't do out of laziness". I mean, really? You HAVE GOT to be pulling my leg when you look at something like this and dare question the amount of hard work that went into it. It's like, some people can never be satisfied. You just gotta complain! Make sure it's a game that's really bothering you. Cuz I dunno, honey...
At any rate: Stonefist, I'm certain it hasn't gone anywhere, will be right there in the "Primal' tree. And I'm still holding out hope for a couple signature DA spells such as Crushing Prison & Walking Bomb being in the specs - though I'm not counting on it. So far, to me, this is all already looking too great!
November 18. You and I. Cannot wait!
You just might be misinterpreting what I mean if your last comment was at all address to me. The way I see it is that rather than labeling a tree Inferno as opposed to Discord, it would appear right away that inferno means fire and Discord does not. I'm not against elemental spells and abilities as a whole, I just think they need to play more of a sub-category rather than a whole aspect of the game devoted to them. The reason for this, which I has said somewhere else in this forum, is because I don't want to have to play a game where I have to choose two elemental Trees for my build to be viable because I don't want the game to turn out like a paper rock scissors game playing as a mage. Maybe my fears are unfounded, maybe that is the case. I hope so.
Retour en haut