6397 réponses à ce sujet

[LexXxich]

Can you imagine doing this with more than one character on constant basis? More micro than a match of Starcraft.

I also struggle  to invent such a tactics option that'll use such an ability effectively and take at least part of the burden off player.

[PillarBiter]

Can you imagine doing this with more than one character on constant basis? More micro than a match of Starcraft.

I also struggle  to invent such a tactics option that'll use such an ability effectively and take at least part of the burden off player.

 

yeah, it will be, but the timing thing will mostly only be needed for warriors, and even then, only if they don't have guard/barrier. you'll probably be able to set it in tactics slots as well anyway.

 

But like I said, it'll be more important (or an equally effective tactic, anyway) to prevent the enemy from attacking (incapacitate him) than it is to build up guard.

[Adhin]

@LexXxich: I wouldn't do that in the first place, nor would I ever play almost exclusively in tactical camera. That sounds... well that sounds like a bad time, it's not a turn based game. It's not based off that though they let you play that way if your so inclined. Either way I use the pause to manage more crowd control related stuff. For instance putting up an Icewall, or the electric ring, or setting up a focus ability. I intend to pause to place party members all at once for setup and for tactical advantages... not to try and time a block. I'll just hold my button down when I see an attack incoming.

 

But then I play this on a console anyway, and I'd use a controller with PC I just prefer it for most things now and days. PC was my start in gaming, what I did most as a kid and growing up and I just kinda prefer console stuff now.

[ZerioctheTank]

My 2 cents about guard:

First of all, I know barrier works against physical attacks as well, because I've seen it in the latest twitch video. So my guess is guard will work against ranged and magic attacks as well. That said, probably to a lesser extent. Some enemies will use armor penetration, some will use attacks that take a bit off your health and guard (and barrier?), ...
The interesting thing is that it's all about using incapacitating attacks to prevent damage, and use subsequent detonator combos for major damage. Prevention WILL be key in this game.

Also, about building up guard. A lot of the warrior's abilities seems to add guard. I know I've seen an upgrade on taunt somewhere that says 20% guard per enemy taunted. This ability can really shyrocket your guard. Challenge will probably do a similar thing. Block abilities as well, maybe abilities like war cry... I think this really adds depth to the warrior's abilities. And actually allows them to tank way more effectively than in previous games.

Lastly, I do wonder about rogues though. I think stealth will be key for them. losing aggro will be very important.



PS: I also think positioning will play a far greater role than any previous game. Personally, I'm planning on always keeping a good distance between my rangeds and warriors. I always like playing as a warrior PC, and 3 characters backing him up ranged. This creates the illusion of the PC being uberpowerful Eg if I have 2 mages, I can create 2 walls of ice to create a sort of funnel (or even a wall of fire and ice) I can prevent the enemy's retreat by laying down a trap with my saboteur, and at the end of the funnel they meet... the Reaver all barrier'd up and ready to slice'm and dice'm.

I am SO looking forward to this game

I'm really going to have to incorporate the wall spells into my game. Reshaping the battlefield to force mobs to deal with my tank sounds like a good idea. How long do the wall spelles stay active.

[LexXxich]

What I'm trying to say is that "pause and play in iso camera" playstyle gets needlessly complicated by things that make "control one character in realtime" playstyle more "action-like". Player would either have to accept these abilities not having any effectiveness on not-currently-controlled character, or pay a heavy toll of character switching and enabling them constantly.

[Biotic Sage]

Can you imagine doing this with more than one character on constant basis? More micro than a match of Starcraft.

I also struggle  to invent such a tactics option that'll use such an ability effectively and take at least part of the burden off player.

 

For tanking, I think it would be pretty simple:

 

Cassandra: Stamina <50% / Action: Deactivate Shield Wall

 

Cassandra: Being attacked by a Melee attack / Action: Sustain Shield Wall

 

Then you can build off this one example of a foundation to customize to your party and abilities.  Obviously not as efficient as strict micromanagement, but tactics have always gotten the job done for me on everything except Nightmare in the past.

[LexXxich]

Cassandra: Stamina <50% / Action: Deactivate Shield Wall
 
Cassandra: Being attacked by a Melee attack / Action: Sustain Shield Wall

This example would leave her unable to do anything but auto-attack, since stamina pools in DAI do not allow using more than 2 abilities from full pool (I'm basing this on the amount of stamina abilities seem to spend in official combat videos). That way she won't gather enough aggro to effectively tank if you put your example on top of tactics list. And if you put it lower, she won't have stamina left to perform blocks.

[Biotic Sage]

This example would leave her unable to do anything but auto-attack, since stamina pools in DAI do not allow using more than 2 abilities from full pool (I'm basing this on the amount of stamina abilities seem to spend in official combat videos). That way she won't gather enough aggro to effectively tank if you put your example on top of tactics list. And if you put it lower, she won't have stamina left to perform blocks.

 

Actually, she won't even be able to do basic attacks.  While you are sustaining Shield Wall, you're locked into just that.

 

But addressing your point: you could easily activate War Cry (to taunt AOE) and/or Challenge (single target taunt) before sustaining Shield Wall and have enough stamina.  If you don't think you'll have enough, lower the condition to <25% stamina for deactivation of Shield Wall, or even burn it down to 0%.  Your primary goal  for your tank after taunting/drawing aggro should be to soak as much damage as possible while simultaneously building up as much Guard as possible.  Shield Wall is the only thing that should be active in this situation.  After your stamina's burned down, proceed to basic attacks while it recharges.  In the meantime, these enemies have been getting lit up by your DPS focused characters.

[PillarBiter]

I absolutely LOVE the fact that, even with so little knowledge about the game and the useable skills, people are already discussing their views on how they're going to handle the combat and almost already know how they're going to play

 

This, to me, shows that Bioware did good. Yes, they totally changed combat. But for the better, they've convinced me of that.

(except for the 8-ability limit, I'm still on the fence there)

[Kage]

Guys, we do not even know if Tactics are the same this time around, maybe they have been simplified.

 

I think from what we have seem, CC is crucial in this game in all difficulties. And that is why CC is embebbed in so many skills. There are skills that typically just do damage, but this time they do both damage and have a CC attached. Like Mighty Blow or Fire Mine. The first was damage, now it knocks down. The second was just CC, now it does damage too.

 

Since there is no healing, prevention is key as you all say. This means we must have a tank in higher difficulties (someone who can generate guard and soak damage), or have an enormous amount of CC. I really like that. I hated the feeling of "dps race" of DA2's nightmare difficulty. I prefer to maintain and keep control. Remember, if we are to defeat this monster, we must control the battle.

 

My guess for nightmare is that we will have to use tactical view a lot, and micro manage all the companions in many battles. We must be sure to taunt when a lot of enemies are nearby, to create enough guard. We must use barrier the proper time. DPS companions cannot get aggro by any means since they will fall super quickly. The tank must be the one drinking potions, each potion drank by other companion is a failure. We must chain CC in certain enemies, those not attacking the tank, and focus fire them.

 

I really like this gameplay, it seems interesting and rewarding for each single battle. In previous games it really didnt matter if you lost health or even if someone fell down, since injury kits were not a luxury. Now we must pay attention to every battle.

 

And since we can grind because the content does not level with us, we can adjust the difficulty we want inside that given difficulty.

 

I think with this system, EASY is going to be easier than before, HARD is going to be harder than before (you will have to be more careful), and NIGHTMARE will be a micromanaging fest but more rewarding and fair than previous nightmare modes.

 

November, come already.

[Icy Magebane]

WTH... have you guys seen the latest Crafting demo?  The Two Handed tree looks completely different now... "Berserk" is gone! 

 

You can see it at 0:46...

 

 

Man... that's terrible news.  Oh well...

 

November, come already.

Indeed!  If only so that we know exactly what the skills are and what the final trees look like. 

[Kage]

Oh, new skill tree!

But there are still 5 actives. I think we are definitely going to end up with 5 actives per tree, all trees.

 

There is one thing I dont understand, they say that each companion has their own belt, so each one can access certain potions/bombs/whatever... But, when we have seen demo footage, potions are shared between all the companions. Those 8 potions are not 8 per character, but 8 total.

 

What am I losing?

 

 

EDIT: Oh, I think the answer is that each character has their own "load out", but the number of potions are shared. Meaning, that you can select which party members have access to jar of bees, but the total number is the same for all. Seems balanced enough!

 

EDIT 2: Regeneration potion! There will be plenty healing!

[mikeymoonshine]

WTH... have you guys seen the latest Crafting demo?  The Two Handed tree looks completely different now... "Berserk" is gone! 

 

You can see it at 0:46...

 

 

Man... that's terrible news.  Oh well...

 

Wow that's different, I thought that was an MP tree at first until I saw Blackwalls name. I did suspect a change as it still had that older shape with six actives but this is very different. I wonder if all the trees will be changed to that extent? 

[andar91]

I think it actually looks much better, visually.

 

I'm sort of happy, actually. It means some of the trees will be more of a surprise when we get the game. I still wanna see them all though lol.

[mikeymoonshine]

So screenshots. 

 

 

Adding them to the OP. 

 

Thanks for posting that here Icy, I didn't even notice that there was a tree in it when I watched the video. 

[Icy Magebane]

Wow that's different, I wonder if all the trees will be changed to that extent? 

It's entirely possible... maybe the old versions were too straightforward?  They did seem to have a very uniform look... perhaps the shape of this tree was changed because it would have been asymmetrical had they simply removed an ability?  Maybe they were all changed so that skills were learned in a different order or had different prerequisites for balancing purposes?  Whatever the reason for the change, I get the feeling that they may have done something similar to the other trees..

 

edit:  Hm... the icon for "Block and Slash" seems to have changed... assuming that's the one above "Flow of Battle."

[mikeymoonshine]

It's entirely possible... maybe the old versions were too straightforward?  They did seem to have a very uniform look... perhaps the shape of this tree was changed because it would have been asymmetrical had they simply removed an ability?  Maybe they were all changed so that skills were learned in a different order or had different prerequisites for balancing purposes?  Whatever the reason for the change, I get the feeling that they may have done something similar to the other trees..

 

edit:  Hm... the icon for "Block and Slash" seems to have changed... assuming that's the one above "Flow of Battle."

 

Well the one that they showed us before did not have that hexagonal shape that all the more recent trees have had so I assumed it would change at some point. Those lines through the middle no longer exist, so I assume they allowed you to move to another branch on the tree. Removing them means we will have to think more about what kinds of skills we want and how quickly we want to get them. 

[Icy Magebane]

Also... Whirlwind only has one upgrade now... yeah... looks like they did some serious work on this tree.  Most likely all of them.

[EnduinRaylene]

Also... Whirlwind only has one upgrade now... yeah... looks like they did some serious work on this tree.  Most likely all of them.

Surprising and not at the same time. This is period when they'll have done the most amount of balancing so it makes sense we'll see some major changes in the ability trees reflecting that, but still surprising since they've been rather constant, outside the name changes, since we first saw them.

 

The fact that you can't jump sides mid way seems to be the biggest change. Before you could go from the left side or right at every Passive upgrade, now you have to pick a side.

[Icy Magebane]

Surprising and not at the same time. This is period when they'll have done the most amount of balancing so it makes sense we'll see some major changes in the ability trees reflecting that, but still surprising since they've been rather constant, outside the name changes, since we first saw them.

 

The fact that you can't jump sides mid way seems to be the biggest change. Before you could go from the left side or right at every Passive upgrade, now you have to pick a side.

True... I think I might actually prefer it this way since it's a bit less flexible and will require us to make hard decisions about what skills we want to learn.

 

I am curious about that passive ability below Pommel Strike... I can't find a description of it anywhere, but depending on what it is, I could see myself taking the entire right side but stopping at Flow of Battle on the left.  The remaining 3-5 points could probably be spent elsewhere...

[Hellion Rex]

This Winter's Grasp looked freaking enormous!

[Kage]

Before this video, we had 6 actives in the 2h tree, and now we have only 5 actives. They removed the bottom left one, and if you look closely you will see that skill has the markings that are supposed to be indicative of focus abilities.

 

Now, keep in mind that these are not spells, you cannot simply move them around skill trees and justify it by a recolor or a new description (ehem fade step ehem). A 2h ability is a 2h ability, there is no way to change it. So where is it? Has it been directly removed?

 

WHAT IF focus abilities are now not part of the skill trees, but we get them in a different way, a different path, like the Mark of the Rift ability?

Maybe they decided to get all focus abilities OUT of the skill trees, and leave just 5 actives per tree.

 

This would make sense, since we know by now that for example in the Spirit tree we will have a AoE healing spell and a distance Revive spell, and there is actually not room for both. Since Cameron said in the last demo that there is a revive spell in the bottom of the spirit tree... Where is the AoE heal that obviously will be used with focus?

 

It is outsideeeeeeeeeeeee

 

So my latest deduction...... Which spell are they going to put in the entropy/lightning skill tree instead of haste?

I say, it is definitely PRIMAL, and Stonefist will be there again. It will have room again, poor boy

[Wulfram]

 

The fact that you can't jump sides mid way seems to be the biggest change. Before you could go from the left side or right at every Passive upgrade, now you have to pick a side.

Yeah.  That's a shame

[Biotic Sage]

Dude.  What the actual ****.

 

Did they seriously make the skill trees linear now?  You can only go down path #1 or path #2?  I was so stoked that they finally let the branches connect more between the paths so you'd have more options.  It's not like pre-reqs are even that important anymore.  Every ability looks very balanced and good in different situations.  Why can't we get Block and Slash, Pommel Strike, and Whirlwind, but skip Mighty Blow and the first passive ability on the right side of the tree?  For what possible reason is that not ok?  This just means fewer possible character building options.

[LexXxich]

What is it, Lassie? Bioware changed something and made players have less options? No, this can't be, they'd never do such a thing!