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[AshesEleven]

Mage skill trees and famed 8 active abilities limit give me an impression that combat is designed around the multiplayer...

 

Much of the magic lore is either reduced or removed from the game. Apparently all mages in the universe suddenly forgot how to heal, can't remember the sleep spell or debilitating curses. Thedas mages seem to suffer from a serious case of mass amnesia.

 

Rogues got antigravity boots and mutated to become partly frogs, while warriors learned to create firewalls and summon rocks from the ground. Lets not forget that the Inquisitor and his companions are a band of unique mutants who move and attack a lot faste than anyone else.

 

Origins had a great start, it set the world, its lore and more tactical approach to combat. Dragon Age 2 was a hack and slash experiment that got mixed player reactions at best. They said that they want to fall between the two in Inquisition. Looks more like they only thing that reminds me of Origins in videos that we've seen so far, is that the pace is slightly slower than DA2.

 

The rest is brought to level of DA2 and beyond. While some aspects of it I like, I can't help but feel that Inqusition could be seen as a lore-rape if ones keeps Origins and 2 in mind.. If I am right, BioWare could be described as a taking a giant dump on what was supposed to be the core of their own creation. 

 

Healing magic still exists.  It just so happens that none of your companions are well versed in it, though there are still revive and healing spells.  

[HeyCal]

So far, we haven't seen any of the earth based spells. No rock armor or stonefist? Or at least I haven't spied what tree they are in. I wanted to make a Dalish Mage with a spell set as close as I could to the keeper specialty in awakenings. So sad we seem to not be getting any spells like that... But maybe they are in one of the specialty trees that we really haven't seen yet.

[GipsyDangeresque]

Spells kind of felt repeated.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but when I spec'd my mage and got a lot of the options available, I felt like he wasn't really special. I had almost every spell at my disposal. I'd also rather have spells that feel distinct from one another. I really didn't get that feeling in DA:O.

 

 

Spells never repeated themselves exactly. They were each of them unique in application and function. The only things very similar in use were the spells Glyph of Paralysis and Paralyze (even there: one can be pre-set as a trap, one has to be targeted) Crushing Prison, Paralyze and Mass Paralysis were similar in function. The elemental weapon spells and Heroic X spells were also repetitive, but were well streamlined in Dragon Age 2.

 

It's not like this is just a drastic step down from Origins. This is a drastic step down from its sequel. I don't think your argument has any grounds to stand on.

[GipsyDangeresque]

So far, we haven't seen any of the earth based spells. No rock armor or stonefist? Or at least I haven't spied what tree they are in. I wanted to make a Dalish Mage with a spell set as close as I could to the keeper specialty in awakenings. So sad we seem to not be getting any spells like that... But maybe they are in one of the specialty trees that we really haven't seen yet.

 

Stonefist is in the Rift Mage tree, because the stones the fist is made of now come through a rift from the veil, not just the regular ground around you. Which is pretty cool.

 

Other than that, no we haven't seen any earth magic. Nor will we... I think. Rock Armor seems to be a magical potion you can drink now.

 

edit:

(woops, double post. Forgot how slowly this thread moves!)

[andar91]

So far, we haven't seen any of the earth based spells. No rock armor or stonefist? Or at least I haven't spied what tree they are in. I wanted to make a Dalish Mage with a spell set as close as I could to the keeper specialty in awakenings. So sad we seem to not be getting any spells like that... But maybe they are in one of the specialty trees that we really haven't seen yet.

 

We've seen Stonefist in the E3 demo.

 

It's in the Rift Mage specialization tree, so it's no longer available to just anybody.

[Cat Fancy]

So far, we haven't seen any of the earth based spells. No rock armor or stonefist? Or at least I haven't spied what tree they are in. I wanted to make a Dalish Mage with a spell set as close as I could to the keeper specialty in awakenings. So sad we seem to not be getting any spells like that... But maybe they are in one of the specialty trees that we really haven't seen yet.

Rift Mage appears to have something like stone fist.

 

 

edit: doubly  'd. how sad.

[HeyCal]

We've seen Stonefist in the E3 demo.
 
It's in the Rift Mage specialization tree, so it's no longer available to just anybody.

Ah! That makes me feel quite relieved. Is it just stone fist so far or more?

[EnduinRaylene]

I definitely wish there were more active spells. I always enjoyed the Entropy the most and now it's gone, save for maybe a couple spells likely in the Necromancer tree. But I am going to reserve final judgement until I play the game. If I find the system limiting or substandard compared to the last two games I will most definitely let that felling be known. But there is definitely a chance the utility and depth of those spells we do have will make up for the lack in raw number of them. That's my hope right now.

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

I feel like we have too much limitations this time around, limited ability slots/not enough variety of spells etc. Personally i'm huge fan of cc so if i have an option to spec my mages as a crowd control dps units i'm happy... Like some of you said DA2 was good example of "streamlining", but from what i'm seeing today i feel like this is a little to much, so i will probably roll a rogue for my first playthrough since i feel that mages have too much limitations this time around.

Yep i know that i should play first, but this is only an opinion based on what i saw for the past few days

[GipsyDangeresque]

Rift Mage appears to have something like stone fist.

 

 

edit: doubly  'd. how sad.

 

You could say you were just...

 

Twin Fanged.

 

 (yeaaaaaaaaah!)

[Mornmagor]

They copy pasted the old spells of the Primal/Fire/Whatever into the Rift Mage?

 

Mundane spells of old are now specialization ones?

 

I'm starting to feel that Knight Enchanters, besides the weapon summoning, are gonna be a copy paste of Arcane Warriors/+Something else as well.

 

Not that i will be devastated if it happens, but, man, something went wrong when they were designing Mages.

 

I hope these trees are not final.

 

Quiz: Care to make a wild guess where Rock Armor's gonna be?

[Cat Fancy]

Ah! That makes me feel quite relieved. Is it just stone fist so far or more?

Here's the full tree. We didn't see any spell descriptions and I don't know what all the icons mean.

Spoiler

[Statare]

Ah! That makes me feel quite relieved. Is it just stone fist so far or more?

 

It appears to have Firestorm and one other active spell, which we do not know.

 

Edit: two more abilities.

[Icy Magebane]

I wasn't really expecting much from the spell trees, and we had the 8 skill limit to consider regardless of what they wound up looking like, so I'm not really that upset by what I've seen.  Although I still don't really like it, I got over the mostly elemental, streamlined system a while ago...

 

So with that out of the way, I think I will be staying out of the Spirit tree for the most part on my KE.  The Peaceful Aura passive sounds counter-productive for a melee character.  Hopefully I can get the Willpower bonus elsewhere...

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I wasn't really expecting much from the spell trees, and we had the 8 skill limit to consider regardless of what they wound up looking like, so I'm not really that upset by what I've seen.  Although I still don't really like it, I got over the mostly elemental, streamlined system a while ago...

 

So with that out of the way, I think I will be staying out of the Spirit tree for the most part on my KE.  The Peaceful Aura passive sounds counter-productive for a melee character.  Hopefully I can get the Willpower bonus elsewhere...

 

Same here. I got over the streamlined thing. I have accepted the reality that the flashy action path is path that Bioware wants to go down and that if I want old school RPGs, there are games for that.

 

As for the 8 ability lock thing, based on the videos we see so far, I don't think it is as bad as I once thought it was. I still hate that restriction but if you notice in game, from almost all the combat encounter we see, you and your party engage first. Enemies no longer rush you or jump you DA2 style. Even the demon waves from the Fade Rifts seem to take time instead of doing it instantly. 

 

If you use the tactical mode, which I will, you can zoom around the area, check out the enemy first, put the abilities you want in game and then fight, you can get around the 8 ability lock thing. 

[GipsyDangeresque]

I will say this: Dragon Age Inquisition has a VERY different ability system. It's not quite merely World of Warcraft style combat + positioning like previous entries.

 

This game has a greater focus on less abilities that you can use more often. An 8 ability loadout asks you to weigh your decisions, and focus your strategies into specific combinations and builds that will mesh well together and allow you to overcome the obstacles you encounter.

 

Given that "abilities I can use in this fight" is now a resource being constrained, it makes sense logically to design your skill trees in such a way that the player is not flooded with similar options like "fireball" and "fireball harder" or "buff one person's attack" and "buff one person's defense" and "buff one person's critical chance" and other such things. Your slots are just too valuable to spread so thin as that, although there's still room for much variety.

 

So, abilities need to do more things to justify their spot on your bar. Suddenly, a fire spell also inflicts horror. Suddenly, a lightning bolt is fused together with crushing prison and called Static Cage. Suddenly Barrier needs to effect the whole party, and be used much more often (so it doesn't last as long to compensate) so that it's not a dead slot for a majority of combat... or it needs to seriously justify it's long cooldown, as I think a spell like Revive would.

 

 

All of this considered... there's still as not many abilities as I think this game needed. Of the 66 spells in Origins, you had a good chance of getting 17 to 21 of them. That's about 1/3rd of the options in the game. That means you don't see 2/3rds of the spells you could have grabbed on a given character, and this gives more meaning to the choices you made.

 

In this game, you will still get one ability point every level. Some passives stand in the way of letting you reach activated abilities in a tree.

 

But even then, if you get 25 ability points in this game and there are only 17 spells...

 

There's a good chance you could learn almost every activated ability in the game, or at least 1/2 or even 2/3rds of them. This means every mage character is more same-y then before.  This directly counters a goal of customization and differentiation...

 

I think something like 33 active spells would have been more reasonable. Inquisition did NOT need 66 spells like Origins. That wouldn't work at all. But all the same, it needed more than it seems to have gotten.

 

 

I still think it'll be fun to play.

[Zangler1]

I think rift mage actually has 4 actives and 4 passives. The bottom two passives seem to lead to one final active ability at the bottom of the tree. It's barely visible on the video.

[Statare]

I wasn't really expecting much from the spell trees, and we had the 8 skill limit to consider regardless of what they wound up looking like, so I'm not really that upset by what I've seen.  Although I still don't really like it, I got over the mostly elemental, streamlined system a while ago...

 

So with that out of the way, I think I will be staying out of the Spirit tree for the most part on my KE.  The Peaceful Aura passive sounds counter-productive for a melee character.  Hopefully I can get the Willpower bonus elsewhere...

 

you might be able to go down the spirit tree to the right. Mindblast, while also having a detente (is that a thing? my brain is not working) could be useful for a KE. Maybe one of those passives? There was also that one passive in the Fire tree we saw a long, long time ago (feels like) that had a willpower boost.

 

I'll wait until I see more of the schools in full to judge.... but Rift Mage having Stonefist and what appears to be Firestorm.... seems a little unfocused and a bit like cracking an egg over the special from yesterday and making it today's special.

[Morroian]

Ah! That makes me feel quite relieved. Is it just stone fist so far or more?

 

 

Dunno why you would be relieved, its been shoehorned into a spec there are no other earth spells, that spec only has 2 (or 3) other active spells 1 of them being firestorm. IOW Rift mage is essentially just a base spec from DAO and DA2 not  anything new. 

[Dunbartacus]

Dunno why you would be relieved, its been shoehorned into a spec there are no other earth spells, that spec only has 2 other active spells 1 of them being firestorm. IOW Rift mage is essentially just a base spec from DAO and DA2 not  anything new. 

Rift mage has 4 spells total there's one at the very bottom.

[Morroian]

I still think it'll be fun to play.

 

But its not Dragon Age

[Icy Magebane]

you might be able to go down the spirit tree to the right. Mindblast, while also having a detente (is that a thing? my brain is not working) could be useful for a KE. Maybe one of those passives? There was also that one passive in the Fire tree we saw a long, long time ago (feels like) that had a willpower boost.

 

I'll wait until I see more of the schools in full to judge.... but Rift Mage having Stonefist and what appears to be Firestorm.... seems a little unfocused and a bit like cracking an egg over the special from yesterday and making it today's special.

Well, I know that I want Guardian Spirit and Barrier.  Thankfully those seem to be at the beginning of the tree... since we can only have 8 abilities mapped, I may skip Mind Blast to take an element that isn't Ice, just so that my mage isn't helpless against something that resists Ice.  I know that I can probably use the KE "arcane weapons," but sometimes you don't want to get that close to an enemy unless you have to... like against a dragon or giant. 

[Adhin]

So while I didn't think my whole idea of Focus being in specializations was going to end up being true, apparently it is. Also I'm starting to think from this video that the focus is the 'unique thing' each companion gets in said tree. I'm assuming this (speculaterin') based off Varric and Cassandra. Both of there focus skills are different colors, and we get to directly see Varric which is an 'archery' oriented Focus skill... in a specialization not oriented around any specific playstyle.

 

So either the Inquisitor gets access to 3 unique focus skills the other characters don't get access to at all (such as the group heal), or said focus is character dependant and you have to learn that skill on them before the Inquisitor has any acces to it at all. I am generally more inclined to believe they're specialty for those characters and we can learn them but not tied to the specializations atm.

 

Just my current theory on Focus skills. Atm I'm hoping if its true, and that we can, regardless of specialization choice learn all the companion focus skills, that we can't start casting spells as warriors and ****. That was all weird in Mass Effect games - it's gonna be way, way weirder in DAI if that remains true. Then again you could make more sense of it with the mark then you ever could in Mass Effect.

[andar91]

Am I the only one  who feels like the Rift Mage icon (the former Horror symbol) is totally wrong for the specialization? Why not something more...swirly like a fade spiraly thing or something?

[Lennard Testarossa]

So,

 

DA:O - 66 spells

DA 2  - 28 spells

DA:I   - 17 spells

 

...it appears Bioware continues to march down the path of the abolition of mages in favor of a rogue specialization with mage animations.