6397 réponses à ce sujet

[BananaBoy]

I guess they're still possibly changing the trees as they balance the game. They should be in beta by now, right?

[Lulupab]

Well OK then, but its an interesting tree combat-wise. Surely mages can rage during battles too and blood doesn't always has to mean blood magic.

[Skymaple]

Hmm, what do you think this skill tree is? Is the icon similarity between Anders's Vengeance tree and this one a mere coincidence or we get vengeful abilities like him? Like getting healed when an enemy was slain or inflicting self harm to recover mana and get reduced cooldowns aka angry mage aka Reaver/berserker mage.

 

 

 

I'd say that's necromancy (4 normal trees - 1 spec tree)

 

Maybe mages have more trees than other classes? That way they could have Inferno - Winter - Spirit (now healing and supporting) - Entropy - Creation/Primal (earth and lightning)

 

The shame would be no spirit damage spells

[mikeymoonshine]

Hmm, what do you think this skill tree is? Is the icon similarity between Anders's Vengeance tree and this one a mere coincidence or we get vengeful abilities like him? Like getting healed when an enemy was slain or inflicting self harm to recover mana and get reduced cooldowns aka angry mage aka Reaver/berserker mage.

 

 

 

I think it might be a placeholder or something, the one next to it is the Horror Icon from DA2. Anyway, from where it is placed it looks like that one is the specialisation and I am guessing it's necromancy, seeing as we have already seen KE's symbol for that demo. I guess it could be Rift Mage and maybe that would involve something like Anders Vengeance spec but I still think it's more likely to be necro. 

[azarhal]

I'd say that's necromancy (4 normal trees - 1 spec tree)

 

Maybe mages have more trees than other classes? That way they could have Inferno - Winter - Spirit (now healing and supporting) - Entropy - Creation/Primal (earth and lightning)

 

The shame would be no spirit damage spells

 

In the "unofficial" Dwarf warrior E3 demo we could see that the Inquisitor had all the specializations. The "unknown" icons for the mages are probably just that.

[Skymaple]

In the "unofficial" Dwarf warrior E3 demo we could see that the Inquisitor had all the specializations. The "unknown" icons for the mages are probably just that.

 

It is true... I've watched it again, and it seems he had the Reaver and the Templar spec trees...

But I still think mages could/should have 1 more tree, just so all the spells can fit into the new system, don't you think?

[azarhal]

It is true... I've watched it again, and it seems he had the Reaver and the Templar spec trees...

But I still think mages could/should have 1 more tree, just so all the spells can fit into the new system, don't you think?

 

No idea what they did there. Going by the companions, there is only 4 standard mage trees (Ice/Fire/Spirit/Entropy...the last two are probably renamed) and every mage should have access to all of them.  They seems to have cut "old spell schools"  in favor of even more ice and fire themed spells and split trees into a trite CC, DPS, buffing and debuffing groups.

 

Basically, they are just forcing everyone to be elementalists. It's one of the boring thing recent RPGs have been doing.

 

Saying that, I find 4 base class trees too few. There isn't that much more skills per tree (13 going by latest video) than in DA2 (10). This mean each class will have about 8 less skills than in the previous game. That's almost full tree missing...

[Gamemako]

Besides DA2 had 2 pure damage trees (Elemental and Primal), with the other 3 (4?) being split between damage/healing and utility.

DA2 had 1 pure damage tree (Elemental), two mixed trees (Primal had Rock Armor and Petrify; Spirit had Dispel Magic and Death Syphon as well as maybe Walking Bomb depending on where you want to put that), and three support trees (Creation, Entropy, Arcane -- among them, 2 damaging abilities, one Horror with its incidental damage and the other Crushing Prison, also a debuff). Even the specs were mostly support -- Blood Magic had Blood Wound Hemorrhage and Grave Robber's upgrade (with very minor damage), Force Mage had Fist of the Maker, and every other spec ability was non-damage.

From what we have seen, DA:I is a huge departure for mages, making them Primal-heavy nukers where they have not been such previouly. Let's call a spade a spade.

//EDIT:
 

Saying that, I find 4 base class trees too few. There isn't that much more skills per tree (13 going by latest video) than in DA2 (10). This mean each class will have about 8 less skills than in the previous game. That's almost full tree missing...

As was previously pointed by Adhin, the number of abilities per class is actually similar. Fewer upgrades, more passives.

[Rawgrim]

The skill-trees look pretty good.

[Schreckstoff]

Hmm, what do you think this skill tree is? Is the icon similarity between Anders's Vengeance tree and this one a mere coincidence or we get vengeful abilities like him? Like getting healed when an enemy was slain or inflicting self harm to recover mana and get reduced cooldowns aka angry mage aka Reaver/berserker mage.

Seeing as a goat's skull was closely associated with paganism, Baphomet and later occult. It would fit the necromancer.

[Skymaple]

No idea what they did there. Going by the companions, there is only 4 standard mage trees (Ice/Fire/Spirit/Entropy...the last two are probably renamed) and every mage should have access to all of them.  They seems to have cut "old spell schools"  in favor of even more ice and fire themed spells and split trees into a trite CC, DPS, buffing and debuffing groups.

 

Basically, they are just forcing everyone to be elementalists. It's one of the boring thing recent RPGs have been doing.

 

Saying that, I find 4 base class trees too few. There isn't that much more skills per tree (13 going by latest video) than in DA2 (10). This mean each class will have about 8 less skills than in the previous game. That's almost full tree missing...

 

But, I really think mages have more. We know (although it could be temporal) of Inferno and Winter. We also know that there's a Spirit tree. So, if only 4 trees, there would be no Entropy one, 'cus we have already seen one (named entropy) full with lightning spells and haste... So my guess is mages will have 5 normal trees - 1 spec.

 

But I don't have complains about what we know so far, I like elementalist mages and I love how the trees have been designed, all the possibilities! As long as there is another tree with lightning (we know there is) and earth spells, and another one with debuffs and maybe spirit damage spells, I'm happy with that

[azarhal]

But, I really think mages have more. We know (although it could be temporal) of Inferno and Winter. We also know that there's a Spirit tree. So, if only 4 trees, there would be no Entropy one, 'cus we have already seen one (named entropy) full with lightning spells and haste... So my guess is mages will have 5 normal trees - 1 spec.

 

There are four base trees right now: Inferno, Winter, "Spirit" and "Entropy".  The other ones have always been spec(s).

[Thibax]

I need all magic schools back with a lot of spells. No limits, please. It's so boring to have limits in magic

[mikeymoonshine]

No idea what they did there. Going by the companions, there is only 4 standard mage trees (Ice/Fire/Spirit/Entropy...the last two are probably renamed) and every mage should have access to all of them.  They seems to have cut "old spell schools"  in favor of even more ice and fire themed spells and split trees into a trite CC, DPS, buffing and debuffing groups.

 

Basically, they are just forcing everyone to be elementalists. It's one of the boring thing recent RPGs have been doing.

 

Well we know we can spec a defensive/healer mage at least. I guess that would mostly be the spirit tree and revives are a ME type thing now so no need for a resurrection spell. I actually prefer this tbh because it means you aren't totally screwed if a certain character (anders, Wynne ect) dies. 

 

I do hope we get the entropy spells back properly seeing as that is one of my favorite trees. I'm not sure how I feel about the tree that is supposedly entropy atm. 

 

I remember hearing that they were focusing on the specialization more hopefully that will add more ways to play as my first mage doesn't usually do much elemental magic. 

[The Night Haunter]

DA2 had 1 pure damage tree (Elemental), two mixed trees (Primal had Rock Armor and Petrify; Spirit had Dispel Magic and Death Syphon as well as maybe Walking Bomb depending on where you want to put that), and three support trees (Creation, Entropy, Arcane -- among them, 2 damaging abilities, one Horror with its incidental damage and the other Crushing Prison, also a debuff). Even the specs were mostly support -- Blood Magic had Blood Wound Hemorrhage and Grave Robber's upgrade (with very minor damage), Force Mage had Fist of the Maker, and every other spec ability was non-damage.

From what we have seen, DA:I is a huge departure for mages, making them Primal-heavy nukers where they have not been such previouly. Let's call a spade a spade.

 

Well if your intent on panicing over the fact that we've seen 1/2 the abilities in 1 tree and 3-4 in a second tree with no mention at all yet of the other 2 (possibly more) there isn't anything I can do. But calling all mages primal heavy nukers when we know about 10% of the total spells in the game (or potentially less) is bit premature. They advertise Primal specs because they are flashy, easy to understand and have immediate effects. That doesn't mean all mages will be primal. Look at DAO advertising, you saw mages throwing fire balls and lighting storms all over the place, you rarely saw the debuff/support side.

[Skymaple]

There are four base trees right now: Inferno, Winter, "Spirit" and "Entropy".  The other ones have always been spec(s).

 

That's true, but what I'm saying is:

Or they have changed what entropy is and it is lightning spells now, or they have completely removed the entropy spells (or placed them in a spec such as necromancy - which I doubt) or that the name was a place holder and there're more trees.

 

Just watch the Comic Con Rogue video, and you'll see the lightning tree... So I'm just saying that if there's a Spirit tree, a fire tree, an ice tree and a lightning tree, those are 4. If there're entropy spells at all, they'd need another tree, right? and where is stone fist? Hmmm... maybe this is just temporal and they join together fire and ice and lightning and earth, but I don't think so...

[Skymaple]

Well we know we can spec a defensive/healer mage at least. I guess that would mostly be the spirit tree and revives are a ME type thing now so no need for a resurrection spell. I actually prefer this tbh because it means you aren't totally screwed if a certain character (anders, Wynne ect) dies.

 

Well, I think they mentioned on twitter that there is a resurrection spell, that is instant cast and revives in area, but don't quote me

[mikeymoonshine]

Well, I think they mentioned on twitter that there is a resurrection spell, that is instant cast and revives in area, but don't quote me

 

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought there was a need for one but I guess I can see a use for a spell that revives more than one party member. 

[Gamemako]

Well if your intent on panicing over the fact that we've seen 1/2 the abilities in 1 tree and 3-4 in a second tree with no mention at all yet of the other 2 (possibly more) there isn't anything I can do. But calling all mages primal heavy nukers when we know about 10% of the total spells in the game (or potentially less) is bit premature. They advertise Primal specs because they are flashy, easy to understand and have immediate effects. That doesn't mean all mages will be primal. Look at DAO advertising, you saw mages throwing fire balls and lighting storms all over the place, you rarely saw the debuff/support side.

We've seen closer to 40%, and the majority of what we're missing are specs. We know the entire Inferno tree and most of the Winter tree by their icons and ingame examples. We know at least Chain Lightning and Stonefist have been used, plus a lot of spell icons in the test "Entropy" tree which suggest a bundle more lightning-element attacks. We know basically 2.5+ of 4 non-spec trees, and all of these are elemental spells or the two general spells in the Winter tree (one of which is the staff bolt attack). In order for a support character to be even an option, we'll need to have every single spell we haven't yet seen plus an entire spec dedicated to the task. The entire "Spirit" tree plus two general points in Winter plus full spec would only come out to 25 points. If you start with 3 and get 3 from special sources (tomes, etc), plus reach cap of 30, then you'd have 35 points.

Limiting support is probably intentional, especially as it's harder to balance for Nightmare when you're going with limited healing. They still have effects to spells, but they're redone so that everything is a "cool" primal spell. A glyph that launches enemies like Glyph of Repulsion, but with fire! It also doesn't hurt that you're pulling double-duty on spells, which is addressing some of the problems with DA:O/2's limited gamepad hotbar access. You might also have a lot of redundancy in your spell trees to compare to the innate uselessness of one of the two weapon specs for every non-mage -- with only 3 non-spec trees, your class is defined more by that spec choice, since you can go with all inherent trees or split one tree out of spec. And in any case, it's a design decision that isn't wrong, even if it doesn't please me. I mean, if they're going to redesign the game to be dedicated to my preferences, well, I got some ideas.

As for DA:O, you could put 37 points into Spirit+Entropy+Creation and still not have a single direct-damage ability. Add in specs, Arcane, and Primal, and you'd need to hit a ridiculous 58 spell points before you'd have to put a point into a direct damage spell of any kind. Not that you should, but you could. DA2 had far fewer spells in total, obviously, but still had a huge number of support abilities. My mage Hawke finished with Fist of the Maker, Stonefist, Chain Lighting, Tempest, and an army of support spells: Horror, Hex of Torment, Rock Armor, Petrify, Heal, Mind Blast, Telkinetic Burst, Pull of the Abyss, Gravitic Ring, Healing Aura, Group Heal, Revival, and possibly something else I'm not remembering.

[Tevinter Rose]

Well, I think they mentioned on twitter that there is a resurrection spell, that is instant cast and revives in area, but don't quote me

 

That sounds like an updated version of Revival in the Spirit Healer spec in DA2 

[mikeymoonshine]

That's true, but what I'm saying is:

Or they have changed what entropy is and it is lightning spells now, or they have completely removed the entropy spells (or placed them in a spec such as necromancy - which I doubt) or that the name was a place holder and there're more trees.

 

Just watch the Comic Con Rogue video, and you'll see the lightning tree... So I'm just saying that if there's a Spirit tree, a fire tree, an ice tree and a lightning tree, those are 4. If there're entropy spells at all, they'd need another tree, right? and where is stone fist? Hmmm... maybe this is just temporal and they join together fire and ice and lightning and earth, but I don't think so...

 

The Comic Con demo is the same demo that was shown at E3, I doubt they changed anything. They just showed us more trees at E3. 

 

Here is the lightning/entropy tree from E3. 

Spoiler

Stone Fist could be the spell on the top right but the icon doesn't quite look like the icon in the demo, it could be lighting I guess. 

 

They also showed us the Discipline tree

Spoiler

But if you look in the combat trailer the tree (which is now called Winter) has been changed a bit. 

Spoiler

 

So yeah there could be other trees that weren't even in the demo and there has obviously been some changes since the demo was made because we can see differences in the combat video. 

[Skymaple]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought there was a need for one but I guess I can see a use for a spell that revives more than one party member. 

 

Yeah, I think they were answering somebody who complained about how easy it would be to revive people if anyone could do it. So the dev/someone from the team said that way of reviving fallen companions took a long time and could be interrupted, and that the mages could do it instant cast and in area (maybe I dreamt it? haha)

[mikeymoonshine]

Yeah, I think they were answering somebody who complained about how easy it would be to revive people if anyone could do it. So the dev/someone from the team said that way of reviving fallen companions took a long time and could be interrupted, and that the mages could do it instant cast and in area (maybe I dreamt it? haha)

 

Well that would make sense I guess, that last spell in the Spirit tree could be a revive. 

[Skymaple]

That sounds like an updated version of Revival in the Spirit Healer spec in DA2 

 

Yeah, it definitely sounds like it Although I can't find the tweet anymore, mainly 'cus I can't use twitter properly haha (I think it was in one of the two combat video's responses)

 

The Comic Con demo is the same demo that was shown at E3, I doubt they changed anything. They just showed us more trees at E3. 

 

Here is the lightning/entropy tree from E3. 

Spoiler

Stone Fist could be the spell on the top right but the icon doesn't quite look like the icon in the demo, it could be lighting I guess. 

 

They also showed us the Discipline tree

Spoiler

But if you look in the combat trailer the tree (which is now called Winter) has been changed a bit. 

Spoiler

 

So yeah there could be other trees that weren't even in the demo and there has obviously been some changes since the demo was made because we can see differences in the combat video. 

 

I would think so, too. I think the more updated version was the one they showed us in the Combat video... and seeing as they changed the names of Winter and Inferno, we could suppose Discipline, Entropy and such were placeholders...

It could be stone fist... don't know...

You know what? I hope they stay as they were shown in the last video, so that mages have mooooore trees

[mikeymoonshine]

I just hope we get some actual entropy spells.