171 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

So 2 millennia of fear of Tevinter mages is going to just magically vanish?

[LobselVith8]

If we have that, I'd like to add Dalish shrines...

 

That would be nice, since the elven Inquisitor isn't beholden to the dogma of the Chantry. I'd like to see the elven Inquisitor have the option to establish statutes for the Creators, and areas where the elves who are interested can learn about the elven pantheon, free from Chantry persecution. With the plethora of Andrastians who the Inquisitor will be surrounded with (including companions and advisers), it would be nice to be among some of the Elvhen and discuss topics of interest for the elves.

[Who Knows]

I'd like to see the elven Inquisitor have the option to establish statutes for the Creators, and areas where the elves who are interested can learn about the elven pantheon, free from Chantry persecution. With the plethora of Andrastians who the Inquisitor will be surrounded with (including companions and advisers), it would be nice to be among some of the Elvhen and discuss topics of interest for the elves.

I would love this.

I doubt we will get the option, though, sadly.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I never said it would magically vanish (Though in a place mages it is very possible ) I'm saying that people like Dorian will lead to the slow change of Tevinter society. Look at America a couple centuries ago that country had slavery and only men had a say in their society. Very much like the Tevinter who have slaves and only mages have a say in what happens. Now if you lived back in those days I bet you'd say "There's no way they're going to change" But eventually their culture changed because good people ended changing it to outlaw all slavery and giving everyone a vote in what happens in their country.

 

Countries much like people are fully capable of changing their ways. I believe that Tevinter is has a very good change of changing itself into a better place if people try and make it that way.

[Eveangaline]

I'd love to establish dalish shrines but they'd get torn down when the game was over what with the whole "chantry makes it illegal in andrastrian countries for dalish to worship"

[Inquisitor7]

I think what ever your inquisitors view on the chantry is will effect the popularity of it because you are such a powerful figure.

[Urazz]

I'd like to save the Chantry as well but I'll make sure it doesn't have the power that it did have before DA2.  I think the Circle and Templars should be kept away from the Chantry.

 

Mostly though it'll depend on the situation the Chantry is in before I could decide to save it or not in game.  If it's extremely fractured or being ruled by the zealots, then I'll let it fall apart.

[LobselVith8]

I'd love to establish dalish shrines but they'd get torn down when the game was over what with the whole "chantry makes it illegal in andrastrian countries for dalish to worship"

 

The Chantry's militant arm has gone rogue, their Circles have emancipated themselves, and either the mages or the templars can be brought into the Inquisition, depending on who the Inquisitor aligns with. Sure, the Chantry criminalized the elven religion, but having the shrines in areas where the Inquisition has authority would make that a moot point when the Inquisitor wields power in these areas.

[Wintersbreath]

The Chantry is responsible for abuse and deaths from misinformation and inaction. It is responsbile for cultural purges and countless deaths from their Exalted Marches and more. Many of its officers are hypocritical and corrupt. It is an inefficient and brutal organization. If I had the option, I would remove any and all military and political power from the Chantry. If you want to read more on the flaws of the Circle, and indirectly, the Chantry, read here.

[thetinyevil]

The Chantry is behind most of the problems in Thedas. They are the ones who spread hate and fear of mages. They let templars do whatever they wanted to anyone and everything as long as they did not turn on the Chantry itself. It also wasn't the Chantry that stopped the Qunari invasion, that was all the Countries including Tevinter working together, and if it wasn't for the mages from the Circle and Tevinter the Qunari never would have been stopped. And how are they repaid? Treated little better then rabid animals.

 

The Chantry has way to much power. If it isn't completely destroyed then it needs to have little to no real power. Same with the Tempars. Yes they are needed but they can't have that much power we seen where that gets us.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Chantry is behind most of the problems in Thedas. They are the ones who spread hate and fear of mages. They let templars do whatever they wanted to anyone and everything as long as they did not turn on the Chantry itself. It also wasn't the Chantry that stopped the Qunari invasion, that was all the Countries including Tevinter working together, and if it wasn't for the mages from the Circle and Tevinter the Qunari never would have been stopped. And how are they repaid? Treated little better then rabid animals.

 

The Chantry has way to much power. If it isn't completely destroyed then it needs to have little to no real power. Same with the Tempars. Yes they are needed but they can't have that much power we seen where that gets us.

Yes and no.

 

No part

First chantry doesn't spread hate and fear of mages peoples hated and fear mages long before chantry and they had and have good reason to do pretty much as leliana said in demo.Mages are source of endless disasters that touch peoples if you want argue i can point them all of the day so no wonder that peoples hate magic and they don't need chantry for that all they need is become victim one of many mages caused disasters.

 

Second if not mages Thedas would in much better shape why first as i said mages caused many disasters that societes have to deal most known and destructive is blight.So every country was vastly damaged because of mages and mess they cause.Then mages stop technological progress (and technology was proven to be superior to magic) so in the end humans could be much better prepared for qunari invasion.

 

Yes part

You are right that chantry is responsible for most problems why? Because they are guys who suppose control mages and protect population they failed awfully as we can see through games where we can see how much damage mages still cause.And yep chantry is corrupted and need to be put down and replaced by working system. 

 

[Vindicare175]

My vote is to reform it , Into a organization that's is truly about helping / defending the people. They wish to still have some say in mages , that's fine , but The circles change into schools that help mages learn to control there power / how to protect themselves against demons , you are still required to go but you are free to go home / leave the tower after the *Circle Learning Hours* are over so to speak and after a set period of time X amount of years of learning , your no longer required to go to the Circle everyday are basically free to do as you wish. 

 

Templar's will remain but they are there to guard and to keep the place safe should a mage be unable to protect themselves and get possessed , but no more of this Templar s can do whatever the hell they want to mages ,

 

I wouldn't expect it to happen *snap* just like that would take A LOT of work , time and patience on both sides (Chantry and the Mages) but imo this is the best outcome

[Bleachrude]

Given what we learn about the ancient elves in the Masked Empire, the Chantry is EASILY the lesser of the evils. Ièll take the Chantry over Tevinter, the Qun or the ancient elves.

[EmperorSahlertz]

That's exactly why I want to take them down.

Yeah! How dare they defend themselves!

[Mistic]

The Chantry's militant arm has gone rogue, their Circles have emancipated themselves, and either the mages or the templars can be brought into the Inquisition, depending on who the Inquisitor aligns with. Sure, the Chantry criminalized the elven religion, but having the shrines in areas where the Inquisition has authority would make that a moot point when the Inquisitor wields power in these areas.

 

My personal opinion is that the Inquisition will be like the Grey Wardens. Even if most Wardens happen to be Andrastians, neither race, nor gender, nor religion matters in the order. It's probably one of the few truly secular organizations in Thedas. And the Chantry has to accept it, because even they know that the Grey Wardens are necessary.

 

Interestingly, WoT says that the official stance of the Chantry regarding Warden matters is that "the Maker smiles sadly on his Grey Wardens, as no sacrifice is greater than theirs". Basically, they're fulfilling the Maker's duty and being good Andrastians even if they don't say so. The Chantry may end up using the same theological explanation to accept a non-Andrastian Inquisitor.

 

Chantry: "See, people? That's a good Andrastian!"

Inquisitor: "Actually, I'm a pagan."

Chantry: "Sometimes the Maker chooses the most unlikely vessels."

Inquisitor: "Great. Suddenly, I feel the need to desecrate some ashes."

[MisterJB]

Can the PC declare himself Andraste reborn and found a new religion centered around Inquisitionism?

Because I would totally do that.

 

First tennet of Inquisitionism: "Ask not what the Inquisition can do for you, but what you can do for the Inquisition."

[The Baconer]

Can the PC declare himself Andraste reborn and found a new religion centered around Inquisitionism?

Because I would totally do that.

 

First tennet of Inquisitionism: "Ask not what the Inquisition can do for you, but what you can do for the Inquisition."

 

That's basically my plan. But you don't need to make a new religion, just new rules.

[LobselVith8]

Yeah! How dare they defend themselves!

Depending on which historical account you believe is accurate, the context of the war changes. If you believe in the Dalish historical account, then it would be an act of defending themselves against a nation the humans initially invaded due to the elves' refusal to convert.

Therefore, it makes sense that an elven Inquisitor might have no interest in helping the Chantry, or their political Andrastian interests of power and authority.

[BlueMagitek]

I'd like to save the Chantry as well but I'll make sure it doesn't have the power that it did have before DA2.  I think the Circle and Templars should be kept away from the Chantry.

 

Mostly though it'll depend on the situation the Chantry is in before I could decide to save it or not in game.  If it's extremely fractured or being ruled by the zealots, then I'll let it fall apart.

 

How is the Circle going to maintain autonomy from the various nations that house them without the packing of one of the few international institutions in Thedas that can actually keep them from being integrated?

[MisterJB]

According to them, after they won.

 

The elves have a different story. In fact, according to them, the war started after the elves refused to convert to Chantry worship. According to the Dalish, they threw the missionaries out, and the Chantry sent in Templars. According to the City elves, they threw the missionaries out, tensions mounted because of it, one little elven raiding party attacked one little village on the border, and the humans responded with an Exalted March and took their kingdom.

 

So I can easily turn this around and say, "Yeah! How dare the elves defend themselves!"

But that is not a different story.

We know, for a fact, that Templars came to the Dales, the Chantry does not deny this. The Dalish have  never claimed that the Templars came at a time the Dales was peaceful, they just say "The Templars came" and provide no timeline.

As far as we can tell, they may be simply referring to the Templars that came to destroy the Dales after the Chantry declared an Exalted March because the elves had destroyed human cities and were on the doorstep of Val-Royeaxu (proving that, yes, the Exalted March was an act of self-defense); and these are historical facts that the Dalish never mention.

 

So, the Templars did came. But they either came before the Orlesian-Dalish war; in which case, it means the Dalish slaugthered Orlesians who are no more indistinguishable from the Chantry than Italians are indistinguishable from the Roman-Catholic Church; or they came aftewards; in which case their actions were not unprovoked.

[Xilizhra]

But that is not a different story.

We know, for a fact, that Templars came to the Dales, the Chantry does not deny this. The Dalish have  never claimed that the Templars came at a time the Dales was peaceful, they just say "The Templars came" and provide no timeline.

As far as we can tell, they may be simply referring to the Templars that came to destroy the Dales after the Chantry declared an Exalted March because the elves had destroyed human cities and were on the doorstep of Val-Royeaxu (proving that, yes, the Exalted March was an act of self-defense); and these are historical facts that the Dalish never mention.

 

So, the Templars did came. But they either came before the Orlesian-Dalish war; in which case, it means the Dalish slaugthered Orlesians who are no more indistinguishable from the Chantry than Italians are indistinguishable from the Roman-Catholic Church; or they came aftewards; in which case their actions were not unprovoked.

It's literally impossible to strike back at the Chantry if it attacks you without passing through Orlais, and Orlais won't let you pass through. As such, the only alternative would have been for the Dalish to just let the templars keep attacking them eternally. And the Chantry couldn't be moving its army through Orlais without Orlais' approval.

[EmperorSahlertz]

According to them, after they won.

 

The elves have a different story. In fact, according to them, the war started after the elves refused to convert to Chantry worship. According to the Dalish, they threw the missionaries out, and the Chantry sent in Templars. According to the City elves, they threw the missionaries out, tensions mounted because of it, one little elven raiding party attacked one little village on the border, and the humans responded with an Exalted March and took their kingdom.

 

So I can easily turn this around and say, "Yeah! How dare the elves defend themselves!"

 

I'm still taking down the Chantry. They create "stability" by bending people to their will or killing them. Label anyone that doesn't worship from them "heathens" and "savages," outlaw any religion besides their own (the reason Dalish have to move around), label any ideas or people that doesn't 100% agree with them "heretic" (including Leliana for just believing the Maker is kind and loving instead of a jealous, temperamental jerkass), and keeps all who work within them on a tight leash. Subjects mages to Templar control, subjects Templars to lyrium addiction to keep them under Chantry control, and keeps a tight monopoly on the lyrium trade so legal mages and Templars alike are forced to depend on them. Labels any mages not directly under their control "apostates," and magic types not directly under their control "maleficar" (much like the non-Chantry worshiping elves "heathens" and "savages"), etc.

I have yet to see anyone blaming the Elves for defending themselves. And that is even if the person in question believe they started it.

 

And to my knowledge the ONLY religion that is actually outlawed is the Dalish pantheon. And Lelianna was reprimanded for not believeing in the Chantry gospel because she was a PART of the Chantry. The Chantry does not call all the non-believers heretics for instance (or rather only hardliner Andrastians does so).

 

The Templars subjected THEMSELVES to Lyrium addiction. The Chantry were not the ones who developed the Templar talents.

 

And the mages are being controlled because they represent an actual clear threat. The only alternative would be genocide.

 

So yes, the Chantry DOES provide stability.

 

EDIT: And I see the Elf-apologists continue to deny the evidence WoT provided that the Elves did indeed attack first..... Oh well... It isn't a perfect world....