171 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

And to my knowledge the ONLY religion that is actually outlawed is the Dalish pantheon. And Lelianna was reprimanded for not believeing in the Chantry gospel because she was a PART of the Chantry. The Chantry does not call all the non-believers heretics for instance (or rather only hardliner Andrastians does so).

Actually, the Imperial Chantry is explicitly illegal (in fact, it's a capital offense to belong to it), and I think the Qun is technically illegal, but it's almost impossible to enforce that because qunari very rarely live anywhere the Chantry holds sway.

[MisterJB]

So, the only religions that are outlawed are those specifically hostile to the Chantry? Good to know.

[BlueMagitek]

The Black and White Chantries pretty much excommunicated each other.

 

I must ask though, how much persecution do you actually see in game?  The Ash Warriors aren't hunted by Templar that I could tell, given that they were chilling near the Chantry in Lothering.  There are Qunari mercs just hanging out in Denerim without a problem.  Even the Dalish near the insane city of Kirkwall aren't harassed because of the Creators, but because they're hiding mages.

[Xilizhra]

So, the only religions that are outlawed are those specifically hostile to the Chantry? Good to know.

Wynne mentions something about how dwarves don't really come from the Maker, so it's entirely possible that the Chantry considers dwarves to not be a priority to spread the Chant of Light to (the only missionary to dwarves is a dwarf himself).

 

 

The Black and White Chantries pretty much excommunicated each other.

 

I must ask though, how much persecution do you actually see in game?  The Ash Warriors aren't hunted by Templar that I could tell, given that they were chilling near the Chantry in Lothering.  There are Qunari mercs just hanging out in Denerim without a problem.  Even the Dalish near the insane city of Kirkwall aren't harassed because of the Creators, but because they're hiding mages.

Ash Warriors are uber-Andrastian; it's mentioned in codex entries in DA2. Tal-Vashoth aren't qunari. And the Dalish near Kirkwall are well outside of it; additionally, Elthina is too passive to concern herself, and Meredith is too monomaniacal to do the same.

[LobselVith8]

EDIT: And I see the Elf-apologists continue to deny the evidence WoT provided that the Elves did indeed attack first..... Oh well... It isn't a perfect world....

WoT never reads that the elves started the war; it's intentionally ambiguous as to who started the war. I even included the rather brief entry from WoT in my Dalish thread a few months ago.

[BlueMagitek]

Ash Warriors are uber-Andrastian; it's mentioned in codex entries in DA2. Tal-Vashoth aren't qunari. And the Dalish near Kirkwall are well outside of it; additionally, Elthina is too passive to concern herself, and Meredith is too monomaniacal to do the same.

I assumed they were similar to the Avvar.

 

How many common people know or care about the difference between Tal Vasoth and Qunari?

And yet they are close enough and stationary enough to be harassed by Templars.  They still aren't being prosecuted for their beliefs.  Nor in DA:O.  Nor are the Dwarves, I don't see Gorrim as being Andrastian, just hanging out int he center of Denerim, close to the local Chantry.

[Xilizhra]

I assumed they were similar to the Avvar.

 

How many common people know or care about the difference between Tal Vasoth and Qunari?

And yet they are close enough and stationary enough to be harassed by Templars.  They still aren't being prosecuted for their beliefs.  Nor in DA:O.  Nor are the Dwarves, I don't see Gorrim as being Andrastian, just hanging out int he center of Denerim, close to the local Chantry.

None of the Dalish are anywhere near centers of Chantry power in DAO, and the Dalish on Sundermount mention the growing urgency of leaving due to templar pressure in Act 3.

[Augustei]

Choosing to destroy the chantry would be such a waste of a very useful potential political tool, My Characters would like to save it but implement major reforms within the chantry while also placing them under his thumb =D

Also the persuit of the genocide of Templars and or Mages is also a complete waste of a useful political tool, its also completely ****ing insane.

My Inquisitor will hopefully if given the chance, Release the mages from Chantry control and grand them lands making them a protectorate of another nation..Preferably one my Inquisitor controls or has large influence in =P.Otherwise give them the towers and grant them licences to obtain occupations in the various nations, carefully ensuring and monitoring this so that they don't all take jobs en-mass and ****** off the population of thedas to too great an extent.
My Inq would keep the Templars around and grant them land as well, using them against his enemies with their main job being to hunt down those mages who step over the line to much. I'll take steps to ensure the Order doesn't continue to overstep itself like it has been doing (Looking at you Meredith, Lambert and especially at you Rylock *death stares her corpse*) and ensure they understand their authority has limits.
 

[LobselVith8]

None of the Dalish are anywhere near centers of Chantry power in DAO, and the Dalish on Sundermount mention the growing urgency of leaving due to templar pressure in Act 3.

They also mention receiving threats to convert to the shemlen religion.

[BlueMagitek]

None of the Dalish are anywhere near centers of Chantry power in DAO, and the Dalish on Sundermount mention the growing urgency of leaving due to templar pressure in Act 3.

 

So the answer is "no", then.

[Xilizhra]

So the answer is "no", then.

The answer is "yes, but offscreen." Also, see LobselVith's post above.

[BlueMagitek]

The answer is "yes, but offscreen." Also, see LobselVith's post above.

My question was related to onscreen, hence the "see in game" portion of it.

[Xilizhra]

My question was related to onscreen, hence the "see in game" portion of it.

Again, some apparently mention onscreen having received threats to convert.

[BlueMagitek]

Again, some apparently mention onscreen having received threats to convert.

 

In that case, I will use Lob's argument about it falling under which side you prefer to believe.

 

So far we have:

 

1 threat of violence towards a banned religion

 

VS

 

Lack of threats or violence against atheists, dwarves (who may still believe in the Stone), Tal Vasoth.

 

Truly it is a theocracy of the worst sorts.

[Xilizhra]

In that case, I will use Lob's argument about it falling under which side you prefer to believe.

 

So far we have:

 

1 threat of violence towards a banned religion

 

VS

 

Lack of threats or violence against atheists, dwarves (who may still believe in the Stone), Tal Vasoth.

 

Truly it is a theocracy of the worst sorts.

Well, they can't be everywhere at once.

[FiveThreeTen]

I think we will be able to influence the Chantry fate, but indirectly. If there are reforms, they are most likely to come from the Chantry itself (because in light of the game events they are forced to change).
In the case the Chantry is dismantled, I don't think it will be the direct result of our Inquisitor actions, it will be a series of events that we have no control over.

 

BTW I find it laughable when people go on about "destroying the Chantry", "End the Game in Orlais", "Annulment of all Circles" because leaving such decisions on the player hands is too complicated for future games. And it's a bit silly, you don't "end" all on your own an institution that has been around for +1000 years, you can't change something that is so tied to one's culture, and you can't go on exterminating all mages because they will always be people who are born with magical talents.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Actually, the Imperial Chantry is explicitly illegal (in fact, it's a capital offense to belong to it), and I think the Qun is technically illegal, but it's almost impossible to enforce that because qunari very rarely live anywhere the Chantry holds sway.

That must be why Kirkwall harbored the Qunari, even though they had the largest Templar presence outside of Val Royaux. And that must also be why both Kirkwall and Denerim accept Tevinter presence. Totally outlawed though!

 

Strained diplomatic relations? Yes. Outlawed? No.

[Senya]

The way I see it, Kirkwall was a ticking time bomb. The Veil was thin there, so demons were more likely to cross over and possess mages/mages would be more likely to turn to blood magic. Anders has always hated the Chantry, and then Hawke comes along and finds the idol, which Bartrand ends up giving to Meredith. Then the Viscount dies and a soon-to-be insane Meredith takes over. With Meredith now insane, things become even harsher than before, and Anders becomes even more outraged, which leads him to blow up the Chantry.

 

Some Circles are particularly strict, while others are less so. Mages see it differently. There are different parties of mages, after all.

• Aequetarians: largest fraternity, especially in Ferelden; believe mages should help people regardless of Chantry law; they believe they should cooperate with the Chantry by complying to its more reasonable laws
• Isolationists: small fraternity; believe mages should separate themselves from everyone altogether
• Liberationists: pro-Circle, but believe it should not be run by the Chantry
• Loyalists (or "Chantry apologists"): believe that mages should follow the Chantry's laws completely, including constantly being watched by the templars
• Lucrosians: priority is to accumulate money, and gaining political influence a close second

So Aquetarians believe magic should be used for good and that the Chantry should continue to oversee the Circle, though that they should be less severe.

Isolationists are anti-Circle.

Liberationists are anti-Chantry-run Circle.

Lucrosians... well, who cares.

I'm sure after Anders made the Chantry go boom opinions started to change. I can't recall Asunder perfectly, but it sounded like, after the events of Kirkwall, Liberationists became much more prominent. 

 

So the Chantry isn't necessarily key to the Circle, though it's impact is obviously significant.

If I remember correctly, all the other fraternities but the Libertarians voted to surrender. Then, Rhys voted to fight as the new Aequitarian representative.

 

To put it in Moser terms, up until now, a coalition consisting of Aequitarians and Loyalists controlled Circle policy. With Rhys' vote, Circle politics changed.

[Xilizhra]

That must be why Kirkwall harbored the Qunari, even though they had the largest Templar presence outside of Val Royaux. And that must also be why both Kirkwall and Denerim accept Tevinter presence. Totally outlawed though!

 

Strained diplomatic relations? Yes. Outlawed? No.

The qunari had a force of hundreds; even the templar garrison wasn't strong enough to take them on without severe damage to the city, and if the templar garrison was too weakened by the fighting, then security on the Circle would be weaker, and that's Meredith's first priority forever. As for Tevinter visitors, they appear to be tolerated primarily to avoid diplomatic incidents; there'd be nothing to gain for Anders claiming that he'd be killed for wearing the Tevinter Chantry amulet if he wouldn't actually be.

[BlueMagitek]

Well, they can't be everywhere at once.

 

They're the largest religion in Southern Thedas.  Considering that a Brother was discriminated against on screen by the Shaperate and later killed in an epilogue slide, there's actually more violence against the Chantry that's religiously  motivated than by it.

[Xilizhra]

They're the largest religion in Southern Thedas.  Considering that a Brother was discriminated against on screen by the Shaperate and later killed in an epilogue slide, there's actually more violence against the Chantry that's religiously  motivated than by it.

Cullen turned serial killer in an epilogue slide, too. And given that an Exalted March was going to be called for Burkel's death, I'm going to guess that the odds of that incident ever having happened are slim to none, given the absolutely nothing we've heard about it since.

[BlueMagitek]

Cullen turned serial killer in an epilogue slide, too. And given that an Exalted March was going to be called for Burkel's death, I'm going to guess that the odds of that incident ever having happened are slim to none, given the absolutely nothing we've heard about it since.

 

Yes, but that's an insane, rabid Templar who was imprisoned by other Templar for his crimes.  Certainly not sponsored like Burkel's discrimination was.

 

Exalted march was considered, not stated to actually happen.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, but that's an insane, rabid Templar who was imprisoned by other Templar for his crimes.  Certainly not sponsored like Burkel's discrimination was.

 

Exalted march was considered, not stated to actually happen.

My point was that the epilogue slides are extremely unreliable. Also, Cullen was never imprisoned in that slide, to my knowledge.

 

But, since we'll be seeing a Dalish leading a bunch of Andrastians in Inquisition, at least in my playthrough, I guess we'll see how it plays out!