171 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

http://dragonage.wik...logue_(Origins)

 

Spoiler

Circle given independence

“The young templar Cullen never quite recovered from his ordeal. After months of attempting to convince his superiors that the tower was still a danger, he finally snapped and killed three apprentices before being stopped by his fellow templars. Eventually, Cullen escaped from prison, a madman and a threat to any mage he encountered.”

[thetinyevil]

If I remember correctly, all the other fraternities but the Libertarians voted to surrender. Then, Rhys voted to fight as the new Aequitarian representative.

 

To put it in Moser terms, up until now, a coalition consisting of Aequitarians and Loyalists controlled Circle policy. With Rhys' vote, Circle politics changed.

No wrong.

Rhys did vote to fight but so did all the other fraternities. If they didn't they would have surrendered. Hell even the loyalist voted to fight. Because they all knew returning Chantry would be mean death or tranquility, which isn't much better. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

The qunari had a force of hundreds; even the templar garrison wasn't strong enough to take them on without severe damage to the city, and if the templar garrison was too weakened by the fighting, then security on the Circle would be weaker, and that's Meredith's first priority forever. As for Tevinter visitors, they appear to be tolerated primarily to avoid diplomatic incidents; there'd be nothing to gain for Anders claiming that he'd be killed for wearing the Tevinter Chantry amulet if he wouldn't actually be.

He COULD be executed. Keyword here being could. Of course some hardliners are going to want him executed, just like some hardliners wanted the Qunari evicted. That is however not Chantry policy. Evidently.

 

So far the ONLY proven, through the lore, religion that is actually outlawed, is and remains the Dalish Pantheon.

[Xilizhra]

He COULD be executed. Keyword here being could. Of course some hardliners are going to want him executed, just like some hardliners wanted the Qunari evicted. That is however not Chantry policy. Evidently.

 

So far the ONLY proven, through the lore, religion that is actually outlawed, is and remains the Dalish Pantheon.

Well, "the hangman's noose" sounds rather official, especially if being stated in a city with a grand cleric as passive as Elthina. And nobody wanted the qunari to stay, it's just that some thought the cost of eviction would be too high, while others didn't.

[Augustei]

The way I see it, Kirkwall was a ticking time bomb. The Veil was thin there, so demons were more likely to cross over and possess mages/mages would be more likely to turn to blood magic. Anders has always hated the Chantry, and then Hawke comes along and finds the idol, which Bartrand ends up giving to Meredith. Then the Viscount dies and a soon-to-be insane Meredith takes over. With Meredith now insane, things become even harsher than before, and Anders becomes even more outraged, which leads him to blow up the Chantry.

 

Some Circles are particularly strict, while others are less so. Mages see it differently. There are different parties of mages, after all.

• Aequetarians: largest fraternity, especially in Ferelden; believe mages should help people regardless of Chantry law; they believe they should cooperate with the Chantry by complying to its more reasonable laws
• Isolationists: small fraternity; believe mages should separate themselves from everyone altogether
• Liberationists: pro-Circle, but believe it should not be run by the Chantry
• Loyalists (or "Chantry apologists"): believe that mages should follow the Chantry's laws completely, including constantly being watched by the templars
• Lucrosians: priority is to accumulate money, and gaining political influence a close second

So Aquetarians believe magic should be used for good and that the Chantry should continue to oversee the Circle, though that they should be less severe.

Isolationists are anti-Circle.

Liberationists are anti-Chantry-run Circle.

Lucrosians... well, who cares.

I'm sure after Anders made the Chantry go boom opinions started to change. I can't recall Asunder perfectly, but it sounded like, after the events of Kirkwall, Liberationists became much more prominent. 

 

So the Chantry isn't necessarily key to the Circle, though it's impact is obviously significant.

I don't like thinking about Kirkwall, it was full of insane idiotic morons on both sides.
Hawke was an idiot, Anders was stupid and insane, Meredith was stupid before the idol and insane afterwards...Don't even get me started on that Orsino harvester thing
As for the fraternaties, The Loyalists are under the chantrys thumb hard its pitiful. The Libertarians on the opposite end of the spectrum are a pack of shortsighted fools like Anders was, simply wanting to declare and fight for freedom without any pre-planning and securing of alliances and no plans for what comes after.
The Lucrosians are probably the smartest most logical members of the circle, and the people my Protagonists would want to deal with. Since they are advocates for political power but not blindedly zealous for a cause like the Libertarians are and not the chantrys ***** like the loyalists are.

My Inquisitor given the choice would like to empower the circles and the lucrosians seem the type that would see the benefits of working with my PC to achive that.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, "the hangman's noose" sounds rather official, especially if being stated in a city with a grand cleric as passive as Elthina. And nobody wanted the qunari to stay, it's just that some thought the cost of eviction would be too high, while others didn't.

Yet, not so much when it comes from a known paranoid madman like Anders.

 

Matter remains the same no matter what he says however. There is no proof at all that Imperial Chantry and the QUn are outlawed. Quite the contrary even.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

None of the Dalish are anywhere near centers of Chantry power in DAO, and the Dalish on Sundermount mention the growing urgency of leaving due to templar pressure in Act 3.

 

Yeah but over the course of 6 or 7 years. It can't really be that urgent.

[SnakeCode]

No wrong.

Rhys did vote to fight but so did all the other fraternities. If they didn't they would have surrendered. Hell even the loyalist voted to fight. Because they all knew returning Chantry would be mean death or tranquility, which isn't much better. 

Hmm, wasn't it a 50/50 split and whether the mages went to war or not hinged on whatever decision Rhys made?

[Xilizhra]

Yet, not so much when it comes from a known paranoid madman like Anders.

 

Matter remains the same no matter what he says however. There is no proof at all that Imperial Chantry and the QUn are outlawed. Quite the contrary even.

I would say there's proof enough, but perhaps DAI will elaborate on the matter with Dorian.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah but over the course of 6 or 7 years. It can't really be that urgent.

It is urgent, but Marethari's pinning everyone down. It got to the point where Master Ilen was planning to split off from the clan and take everyone he could.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Hmm, wasn't it a 50/50 split and whether the mages went to war or not hinged on whatever decision Rhys made?

Rhys was the deciding vote, is basically what we know.

[thetinyevil]

Hmm, wasn't it a 50/50 split and whether the mages went to war or not hinged on whatever decision Rhys made?

No I think it was most unanimous. I think. It has been awhile since I read it, I just remember that the end was that they decided to fight.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It is urgent, but Marethari's pinning everyone down. It got to the point where Master Ilen was planning to split off from the clan and take everyone he could.

 

That is only at the end of that period. By that point they had already spent years at the doorstep of the biggest concentration of templars in the Free Marches.

[Daerog]

I keep reading from other places that Rhys was the "tie-breaking" vote and that the Loyalists advocated for surrendering.

 

Edit: I did not read the book, just read forums and wikia.

[thetinyevil]

Just looked it up, Rhys was the deciding vote. Like I said it has been awhile since I read it. I couldn't remember.

[Xilizhra]

That is only at the end of that period. By that point they had already spent years at the doorstep of the biggest concentration of templars in the Free Marches.

Who never left due to paranoia about the Circle...

[LobselVith8]

Who never left due to paranoia about the Circle...

 

And the Qunari presence in the city during Acts I and II, who had many people on edge to avoid another war (like the New Exalted Marches). There's also Meredith taking control and installing templars in the Viscount's Keep, the templar death squad, and the attempts to install the templars in control over the City Guard; Anders also mentioned the templars destroying the mage underground during this time period.

[EmperorSahlertz]

And the Qunari presence in the city during Acts I and II, who had many people on edge to avoid another war (like the New Exalted Marches). There's also Meredith taking control and installing templars in the Viscount's Keep, the templar death squad, and the attempts to install the templars in control over the City Guard; Anders also mentioned the templars destroying the mage underground during this time period.

Which all sums up neatly to the Chantry persecuting the Dalish for the faith is actually rather far down their list of priorities.

[Xilizhra]

Which all sums up neatly to the Chantry persecuting the Dalish for the faith is actually rather far down their list of priorities.

Well, yes. Persecuting the mages for their biology and failing to persecute the qunari for being big and scary do indeed take up most of their time.

[Who Knows]

The Chantry is a corrupt organization. Given the choice, I would not "save" it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, yes. Persecuting the mages for their biology and failing to persecute the qunari for being big and scary do indeed take up most of their time.

None of which is actual Chantry policy. But nice to see that the Chantry doesn't have a monopol on biggoted ignorance.

[Xilizhra]

None of which is actual Chantry policy. But nice to see that the Chantry doesn't have a monopol on biggoted ignorance.

Ah, so that's why the Chantry let the Circle go... oh, wait, they actually did. Huh, I guess you're right. Shall we unite in crushing the treacherous templars, then, O bearer of the Maker's light?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Ah, so that's why the Chantry let the Circle go... oh, wait, they actually did. Huh, I guess you're right. Shall we unite in crushing the treacherous templars, then, O bearer of the Maker's light?

No.

[Xilizhra]

No.

Well, then, it looks like I'm more in line with Chantry policy than you are. Funny old world, isn't it?